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Goodbye Jesus

A Thought Experiment


MathGeek

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All of us on here likely wouldn't shed a tear if the Christianity took a nosedive off a tall mountain into some bottomless crevasse.

 

What would happen though if nonreligious president actually dropped such a bomb on the American populace?

 

I have been around the Internet. I am junkie for political and religious opinions since I ingest YouTube and History Channel material like it was candy-flavored water. Considering my experiences, I have seen how virulent and spiteful believers can be toward those of disbelief on the individual scale, what could likely happen on the mass scale? Considering how many guns are owned in this country legally and how many float about illegally, I am willing to believe that a civil war amounting in hundreds of thousands of casualties could occur. Those on the religious right would apply more brimstone to their sickening, venomous sermons and even the liberally Christian would convert over to more violent beliefs. It could be possible that even an enterprising few could take pages from the Islamic terrorist playbook and launch assaults on known freethought associations and many liberal theology schools. Washington DC itself could go up in flames.

 

Granted these sound like delusions from the mind of some apocalyptic-minded pastor on the fringes of Christianity, but this is what I think might happen considering how obsessive our culture is with violence and religion currently, it might happen. It took only a few corrupt cops getting off on police brutality charges to turn part of Los Angeles into a smoldering ash pile.

 

What are your thoughts folks?

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Well it seems to me that the president would have to go through congress where such a proposal would almost certainly die a quick death. And on the off chance that it would pass congress, it would almost certainly be challenged in the Supreme Court where it would be found unconstitutional.

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Well it seems to me that the president would have to go through congress where such a proposal would almost certainly die a quick death. And on the off chance that it would pass congress, it would almost certainly be challenged in the Supreme Court where it would be found unconstitutional.

 

Likely true, I could see that happening. It wouldn't surprise me if some avowed atheist wound up horribly shaken by some malevolent Christian's foaming anger, though. Americans can be a crazy lot.

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Well it seems to me that the president would have to go through congress where such a proposal would almost certainly die a quick death. And on the off chance that it would pass congress, it would almost certainly be challenged in the Supreme Court where it would be found unconstitutional.

 

Likely true, I could see that happening. It wouldn't surprise me if some avowed atheist wound up horribly shaken by some malevolent Christian's foaming anger, though. Americans can be a crazy lot.

 

 

At the very least, even if it did not pass, which I cannot see it passing, it would fuel Christians persecution complex. They think thye are persicuted now, I can't even imagine if a bill like this saw the light of day how they would be.

 

I can't see a professing atheist being elected to president though.

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I think it would only make people want to believe in it more. People would simply hold church services at their homes, rather than in buildings. The fundamentalists would get more and more fundy, since we wouldn't be able to see what they do in their church services, whereas it's at least somewhat transparent now. And I can see it fueling domestic terrorism. The liberals would probably find something else to latch onto for a while, Buddhism or Paganism or something else. But I don't think outlawing Christianity is the thing to do. It has to go away on its own, and I do think it will, eventually.

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I think it would only make people want to believe in it more. People would simply hold church services at their homes, rather than in buildings. The fundamentalists would get more and more fundy, since we wouldn't be able to see what they do in their church services, whereas it's at least somewhat transparent now. And I can see it fueling domestic terrorism.

 

I agree there. My mind meandered to that point and I figured like this: Outlawing religion is bad policy-making. If God was permitted, it would kill itself from the inside out. Many Western societies are secularized, and church attendance is at all-time lows. Deconversion is a slow, slow process that will take years to wake up all Christians. Making it illegal will make it flourish.

 

I do believe Christianity flourishes in times of persecution.

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Christianity outlawed in America?

 

That would require a miracle.

 

A miracle would prove that God exists.

 

If God exists, then Christianity would come back and be allowed again.

 

So I think it's logically impossible for it to happen. :grin:

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Armed insurrection. Chances are for every gun all our libertarians own, they own 5...

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All of us on here likely wouldn't shed a tear if the Christianity took a nosedive off a tall mountain into some bottomless crevasse.

 

What would happen though if nonreligious president actually dropped such a bomb on the American populace?

 

<snip>

 

What are your thoughts folks?

 

My thoughts...

 

The bolded sentence is key.

 

In order for a nonreligious person to become president of the United States we would have to see major changes.

 

Given those changes, we would have to see even more drastic changes for him or her (it could well be "her" if all those changes take place) be able to pass such a law.

 

Some things that would have to be unanymously agreed upon throughout the nation as okay are:

 

1. gay marriage

2. evolution is science; ID/creationism is taboo

3. abortion

4. atheism

 

I have no idea what things would be like when all the necessary changes are in place to allow for the bolded sentence to take place.

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Christianity was outlawed in the early days of the former Soviet Union, by Lenin and this was confirmed by Stalin when he took over. It wasn't a good idea IMHO; to force people not to believe in a certain faith is every bit as bad as having an official State Religion. For what it's worth, just before the Battle of Moscow started in earnest in December 1941, Stalin re-opened the churches (at least those of the Orthodox persuasion); not because he believed in any of their teachings but because he wanted every psychological advantage he could get. As, at that time, one man in every ten of the Soviet Infantry had a rifle, and perhaps one in five had ammunition but no rifle, one can perhaps see where he might have needed every advantage.

 

Although, as Stalin liked to say in jest, he had two very good Generals Frost and Winter, every little bit helps, eh? All in all it was an extremely cynical turn around, but he, as stated, milked it for all it was worth.

 

In the US, there are, I understand, ways of subverting the Constitution without necessarily obtaining the people's consent to its amendment, typically by passing Acts of Congress that just happen to allow a Constitutional provision to be thwarted, or by stacking the Supreme Court to obtain a favourable ruling on some matter or other. An example of the former is of course the infamous Patriot Act; an example of the latter is the Legal Tender Laws. If what was proposed by this thread was to be done, that would be how it could be done.

 

People's reactions to it would be problematical, as has been said, and all in all, it's not something I would like to see happen.

Casey

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Well it seems to me that the president would have to go through congress where such a proposal would almost certainly die a quick death. And on the off chance that it would pass congress, it would almost certainly be challenged in the Supreme Court where it would be found unconstitutional.

 

Ha ha, you have quite a lot of faith in the checks and balances LR. Seems to me that the current prez has found his way around this system a time or two.

 

That said, I doubt such a law would ever be proposed in the US. I for one would certainly not be in favor of it and I can't imagine any atheist not teetering on the brink of insanity would desire it either.

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Outlaw christianity and only outlaws would be christians...

 

Kinda like the gun saying: "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns...

 

LOL

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it would be the best thing to happen to the religion to galvanize itself. It has splintered into thousands of pieces now because it has been so successful. Outlaw it, and it goes back to being what it was when the Jews saw the whole thing as a sect of blasphemy. Underrdog status would actually help the religion, not hurt it.

 

That is part of the reason many Christians continually try to paint the religion as a victim of persecution...even though it is still holds favored religion status here in the US.

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Indeed... although the sects would probably be involved in an underground blood bath to establish WHICH of the 10,000 sects is the 'one true' Chrisitianity... do it effectively would recast it's self as a religion to rule an Empire.

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I'm in the outlawing Christianity is a bad idea camp. Remember, things can get turned around and we could be forced to accept Islam or Christianity. I do not have a problem with people believing in god, Jesus, allah, etc. The problem I do have is with people who are either demanding the rest of us believe as they do through violence (Islamic fundamentalists) or they try to cram it down our throats even though we've told them we aren't interested (Christian fundamentalists). If someone wants to believe in a benevolent invisible man in the sky and they leave the rest of us alone about it, then I'm all for them being believers.

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"The problem I do have is with people who are either demanding the rest of us believe as they do through violence (Islamic fundamentalists) or they try to cram it down our throats even though we've told them we aren't interested (Christian fundamentalists)."

 

This is a false dichotomy... most Chrisitans want you to believe as they do, but know they'd get jailed if they tried by violence (although watching some of the stuff I see when some atheist family take a stand, I just see the law unenforced as they get run out of town...) and Islam does ram itself down your throat at every opportunity if you live near a large group. Pretty much the same as the other bastard child of the God of Abraham...

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Well it seems to me that the president would have to go through congress where such a proposal would almost certainly die a quick death. And on the off chance that it would pass congress, it would almost certainly be challenged in the Supreme Court where it would be found unconstitutional.

 

This would never happen. To begin with, there would have to be an amendment to the constitution that would specifically give the government the right to regulate religion. The first amendment spells out that government cannot do anything to promote or tear down any religion.

 

I understand your point mathgeek but you would come closer to having Xtianity made the official religion than it being outlawed.

 

An interesting thought here is England. Look at that country: they have an official church, an official religion, yet there country is way more secular than the US and they also have a big muslim population as well. I find that very interesting.

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