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Goodbye Jesus

Do You Think It Is Ever Okay To Hit A Woman


Skiergirl24

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Seriously, how does gender have anything to do with it?

 

Violence should always be a last resort, to be used only after all other possible avenues of resolving a situation have been thoroughly exhausted.

 

Yeah, that was pretty much my point only you said it much better than I did.

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I wouldnt hit a woman unless she was going to harm me.

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If she sat on my bed without taking off her clothes first... ...hell yeah!

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Can I sidetrack or do I need to start a new thread?

 

Guys and girls: In a scrap, do you ever go for the balls?

 

Never. And I would expect the same courtesy from others.

 

In fact going for the eyes (which could potentially blind someone) or messing up someone's face (in a way that could ruin their good looks) seem like bad manners to me also, even in combat.

 

Violence should only be used in self-defence anyway - and you should only do what's necessary to stop them from hurting you.

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Can I sidetrack or do I need to start a new thread?

 

Guys and girls: In a scrap, do you ever go for the balls?

 

Never. And I would expect the same courtesy from others.

 

In fact going for the eyes (which could potentially blind someone) or messing up someone's face (in a way that could ruin their good looks) seem like bad manners to me also, even in combat.

 

Violence should only be used in self-defence anyway - and you should only do what's necessary to stop them from hurting you.

 

Manners? Courtesy??

 

You've got to be kidding!

 

In self-defense there's no such thing as a fair fight. And YES going for the eyes can blind someone!! We aren't talking about little kids scuffling about in the schoolyard over who teacher likes best, we are talking about being confronted by someone willing to put serious hurt on us.

 

If someone wants to hurt me, they can do it. Quick. I'm small and my bones are small. Can't run fast at all. Momma never told me "just run away" she said "first make sure they can't follow you...then get away". The concept of "fair fight" is alien in a world where a 250 pound six foot tall guy roughs up his 100 pound girlfriend, or a small stranger for her car, just because he can.

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I'm squeamish about violence and so I avoid it when I can.

 

I tend to respect other people enough that I'd at least like to think I'd never go for the genitals, even in self-defence - well, not unless it was the only way to stop them killing and/or raping me.

 

I'd also hope if I was in a fight that they wouldn't damage things that matter to me - my eyesight, my looks, my genitals, my brain.

 

I would fight back to avoid getting seriously hurt - but I don't think I'd go for the most vulnerable/valuable parts of the anatomy unless I absolutely had to.

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Can I sidetrack or do I need to start a new thread?

 

Guys and girls: In a scrap, do you ever go for the balls?

 

I avoid scraps in the first place. But if my life was actually physically threatened by someone? I wouldn't hesitate to pull out all the stops. I took some self-defense training when I was in college, and I can say I know how to *NOT* hit like a girl if needed. I would also recommend at least one basic self-defense class for every human being, man or woman, just because you never know if you might need it someday. And it helps with confidence.

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In my opinion, in the case of a rapist, why should I care what happens to his genitals. In fact, the world is probably better off if he doesn't have them. Bobbit anyone?

 

I'm wtih White Raven on this, even though I am tall and that makes me a less vulnerable target then very short women. If I am going about my day and someone decides they are going to victimize me in some way, then I have the right to stop them in any way I can and all bets are off as to what body parts of theirs I should "respect". If they want me to respect the sanctity of their genitals, their eyes or whatever else, then they are better off opting against a life of crime.

 

Have to agree with Madame M on this one. If a guy is honestly trying to hurt you, do whatever it takes to get away. Being compassionate is a good attribute to have, but if some guy is trying to harm me and thinks I should avoid his lower body parts, he should have thought about the possible consequences of his actions first.

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Seriously, how does gender have anything to do with it?

 

Violence should always be a last resort, to be used only after all other possible avenues of resolving a situation have been thoroughly exhausted.

 

Yeah, that was pretty much my point only you said it much better than I did.

 

Don't worry, I've been in that boat more times than I can count myself. I'm sure you've been around long enough to know it happens a lot here. ;)

 

If she sat on my bed without taking off her clothes first... ...hell yeah!

 

:lmao:

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I would fight back to avoid getting seriously hurt - but I don't think I'd go for the most vulnerable/valuable parts of the anatomy unless I absolutely had to.

 

In my opinion, in the case of a rapist, why should I care what happens to his genitals. In fact, the world is probably better off if he doesn't have them. Bobbit anyone?

 

 

Actually you have a point there

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In my opinion, in the case of a rapist, why should I care what happens to his genitals. In fact, the world is probably better off if he doesn't have them. Bobbit anyone?

 

I'm wtih White Raven on this, even though I am tall and that makes me a less vulnerable target then very short women. If I am going about my day and someone decides they are going to victimize me in some way, then I have the right to stop them in any way I can and all bets are off as to what body parts of theirs I should "respect". If they want me to respect the sanctity of their genitals, their eyes or whatever else, then they are better off opting against a life of crime.

 

Have to agree with Madame M on this one. If a guy is honestly trying to hurt you, do whatever it takes to get away. Being compassionate is a good attribute to have, but if some guy is trying to harm me and thinks I should avoid his lower body parts, he should have thought about the possible consequences of his actions first.

 

Right-O! to bolded statements in both posts.

 

A story comes to mind that I heard many years ago. Since I knew only Mennonites of many different kinds it probably happened to a Mennonite. Mennonites are pacifists by religious conviction. That's important to this story. This person had to stop at a red light. This was in the days before car doors were automatically locked. It seems his car doors were not locked. There were some tough guys in the place and he was very uncomfortable. I forget the details of the story but there was some communication between him and the toughs. They wanted something of him that he was unwilling to give. He got out of there as fast as he could. Later, when he got to his destination, he found human fingers on the handle of his car door.

 

I am thinking a true pacifist should have been appalled at the harm he inflicted on another human being by ripping off his fingers by pulling off so fast at that intersection. Did he express any regret? None whatsoever. In fact, he expressed indignation at the fact that anyone was that bold. He expressed enormous relief at the fact that he was alert and smart enough to take off fast enough to avoid being robbed. He also seemed really shook up with this solid evidence that anyone really would have violated him. But he seemed to console himself with the fact that the tough guy paid with his fingers.

 

This pacifist thinks he will go to hell if he shoots anyone in self-defense yet he can gloat over ripping off someone's fingers in self-defense. If his government drafted him to serve in the army, he would go to prison or even be court martialed before he would put on a soldier's uniform just for training. But when faced with an unexpected real life situation he goes ripping off someone's fingers with no regret whatsoever and his fellow pacifists share his gloating and satisfaction.

 

Religous hypocrisy aside. It seems that what this boils down to, along with the other posts in this thread, is that people who are normally nonviolent and who under normal conditions put up with a lot of self-sacrifice for their personal convictions, will in emergency respond violently in their own self-defence. It occurs to me that by staving off a murder or robbery by ripping off that man's fingers, that pacifist probably saved the municipality a lot of legal red tape, which translates into "a lot of money." If the thug wanted medical care he had to either turn himself in or make up a story regarding his injury.

 

The same goes for what you did to that would-be rapist, Madame M. I don't know and I don't care what happened to him. If a man can't have kids, I think it's nothing compared to a young woman saddled with a pregnancy she didn't want or ask for. He can't pass on his genes. End of story. (I'm not sure why some people feel an overwhelming need to pass on their genes.) If there's a medical condition he can get it looked after; he asked for it. If there is an emotional condition, it existed before the attempted rape.

 

I have not yet found myself in a situation where I had to be physically violent.

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Can I sidetrack or do I need to start a new thread?

 

Guys and girls: In a scrap, do you ever go for the balls?

 

Never. And I would expect the same courtesy from others.

Ha! Bruce Lee himself grabbed nuts in order to save his ass on occasion, and he would probably advocate it if the opportunity presented itself. I would do it in a fight to save my wellbeing, but I suppose it would be unsporting otherwise.

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Hi There,

 

The sound of that Christian discipline site sounds absolutely disgusting.

 

As some of you guys know, I'm totally estranged from my family of origin because of my fundy pastor father's physical, emotional and spiritual abuse which lasted almost 20 years. He never hit my mother, but always used to hit me with his hand or a belt. Never about the head though - he said that was the only rule. He could hit me anywhere but not the head. And no face slapping either. Mind you, I thought this was absolutely out of line, but he said I deserved to be hit because I used to swear at him.

 

The only reason I would swear at him was because he did not respect me, yet commanded respect all the time. He would tolerate my younger brother mouthing off at him, but as for me, he would always say, "You are a female (he would almost spit the word female - said with such disgust) and I won't ever be stood up to by a woman! Every time you do it, I will come down on you like a tonne of bricks!"

 

And tonne of bricks was in the form of a belting. He would chase me round the house trying to hit me, and often would corner me, lift my skirt or shorts and whack me round the upper leg. This carried on from about the age of ten right through to the age of 22 when I moved away to get married.

 

Bastard...

 

...but yeah, fundy Christianity is complete bullshit. Friends of mine who were bought up in this church are still recovering...those of us brave enough and smart enough to get out. You see, fundies like em dumb.

 

We all have IQ's over 130 and all went to university with outstanding results. The church doesn't like people like us, and frankly, we don't like them either.

 

Cheers,

Amelia :)

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Amelia,

 

That is so horrible that your father treated you that way. I think I remember you mentioning your abusive childhood before. I'm glad you got out. Fundies do like them dumb. I have found that most men who think they have a right to be a woman, usually feel intimidated by the woman's intelligence. I found it quite telling that on the christian discipline website a guy wrote that women have sharp minds and shape tongues, but men have upper body strength, and both have to use what god gave them. Yet, he somehow then feels justified in using his "god given" (groan) muscles to beat the "god given" sharp mind out of the woman. What it all boils down to is that these kinds of men are intimidated by an intelligent woman, who may just be superior in intellect to them. I'm not saying all women are superior intellectually to all men, just that men who have to resort to beating someone into a docile dishrag in order to feel good about themselves are probably hanging off the lower rungs of functioning intellect.

 

Madame, thank you for this. I had a very serious run-in with a university department several years ago and the only way I could explain some of the issues was that men of mediocre intelligence could get into positions of power where women had to bulldoze through glass ceilings with exceptional intelligence and will-power. SO what we get is mediocre men dealing with exceptionally strong and intelligent women and the poor fuckers are scared out of their wits but daren't show it because they are, after all, MEN.

 

Obviously, nobody who wanted to stay on the right side of the law was in a position to physically beat me with a belt but there's psychological equivilents and they tried them all. They couldn't get rid of me but they could make it impossible for me to earn my degree. In the end I did leave, but on my own terms in my own time. Theology was the one program in town I was eligible for so I applied for it and was accepted. That is how I got into theology.

 

However, when things go this wrong, I need to know why they went wrong. I concluded it was because of an imablance of natural intelligence and it's good to hear another woman say this can happen and that the outcome can be abuse or unfair treatment of the woman at the hands of the powerful male. Incidentally, as I found out later, I was not the only middle-aged female student who had serious problems with the male heads of that department.

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Amelia,

 

That is so horrible that your father treated you that way. I think I remember you mentioning your abusive childhood before. I'm glad you got out. Fundies do like them dumb. I have found that most men who think they have a right to be a woman, usually feel intimidated by the woman's intelligence. I found it quite telling that on the christian discipline website a guy wrote that women have sharp minds and shape tongues, but men have upper body strength, and both have to use what god gave them. Yet, he somehow then feels justified in using his "god given" (groan) muscles to beat the "god given" sharp mind out of the woman. What it all boils down to is that these kinds of men are intimidated by an intelligent woman, who may just be superior in intellect to them. I'm not saying all women are superior intellectually to all men, just that men who have to resort to beating someone into a docile dishrag in order to feel good about themselves are probably hanging off the lower rungs of functioning intellect.

 

Hey Madame,

 

Yeah, my father is a total tool! And you're right - it's all because of my sharp mind and strong will. My father couldn't win on a debate with me and I know it would frustrate him to no end.

 

I would hate to know what the domestic violence stats are like in the fundy church households. Child abuse I know is just outwardly displayed in the chuch I went to. Parents would be belting their kids left, right and centre in full view of everybody in the church...almost like the harder you hit your kid, the better you were at being a bible-following parent. In my view, it's out and out child abuse and the parents should be locked up. No question about it.

 

The senior pastor's wife backhanded her teenage daughter with all of her strength at church. And nobody so much as raised an eyebrow. I wasn't there to see this.

 

My father would ban my brother and I from attending human rights classes at primary school (in primary school, we went to government schools, but private school for high school) because they taught kids what rights were and when our rights were violated. That kinda threatened my father's tyrannical approach at home where we had no rights...well I didn't because I was a girl.

 

If only more could be done for kids living with narcissistic parents like my father. I really did feel totally powerless in that situation. I couldn't go anywhere. I couldn't get away from it. And I know kids today are going through that exact same hell I did - and worse!

 

But yes, they like them dumb. If you're a girl and you're in the church, your job is to look pretty for the boys, get married by the age of 21 and pregnant within a year of getting married. That's your job. And if you go to uni...fuck, that must mean you're a doubter and a questioner. Put simply, you're a danger to the church. Particularly if you study science.

 

As for the senior pastor's daughter who copped the backhand from mommie dearest, she toed the line and dutifully got married in her early twenties and preggers within 12 months of the ceremony. And she stayed dumb for them too, which is the only WAY you can possibly stomach the toxic poison that is the fundy movement.

 

Sorry to go off on a tangent there, but yeah! Keep away from fundy churches. Definitely not suitable for kids and not suitable for anybody.

 

Cheers,

Amelia

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Can I sidetrack or do I need to start a new thread?

 

Guys and girls: In a scrap, do you ever go for the balls?

 

I don't recall having to do that yet, but I definitely would. Perhaps wring it if the situation were that dangerous.

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I was told that the mom was using corporal punishment on her toddler and new baby. From what my friend said, who was close with her, she was using a switch on her infant daughter to keep her nursing for the full amount of time the babywise schedule alloted for feeding. She said this taught her to obey the authority of her mother, to eat when told and to not eat when told. After that, the baby isn't allowed to nurse unless it is the scheduled time on the clock.

 

I really, really dislike some people.

 

Edit: Did some quick research on Babywise and there are warnings all over the place.

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I'm agreeing with everyone else and saying, no it's not right to hit anyone. That said, I just looked into Babywise and my guts are just sick. That is the exact opposite of what I did as a new parent. I remember holding my newborn and thinking, "She knows nothing about the world and it's my job to teach her. What do I want Evelyn to learn from me?"

 

My daughter was a few hours old when I decided I wanted Evelyn to learn...

If she cried, someone would care.

If she was hungry, food would satisfy her.

If she was lonely, someone would talk to her.

If she was dirty, someone would clean her.

If she was scared, someone would comfort her.

 

Above all else, I wanted Evelyn to know, if she needed anything, day or night, I would be there for her.

 

My daughter is 17 and I haven't once regretted that decision. Letting her cry was completely alien to me. I don't like feeling lonely. I don't like feeling hungry. I don't like feeling afraid, or dirty, or... So, why should I let my baby feel that way? I just couldn't imagine what it would feel like to be new to the world and left helpless and alone in a crib crying. It goes against everything I know as a mom.

 

That Babywise crap pissed me off! But, I guess if someone stuck the word, "Christian" on a sack of shit, someone would pay money for it and praize the Lawrd!

 

Sheesh!

CelloChick

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Cello Chick,

 

Have to agree with you. About the age of 6 weeks my oldest started getting fussy and the only way I could comfort him was to hold him in my arms and walk around the living room and dining room. Weird thing was that it had to be the same route. If I'd deviate from that route or put him down he would cry. After numerous trips to the pediatrician to try to determine the cause it was still unexplained. Even though it took about two hours every night to calm him down I'd walk that route with him in my arms. How in the heck could I leave that child in the crib to cry when I knew what would comfort him. I just can't imagine doing it any other way. While some may say I coddled him, I beg to differ, I comforted him and gave him a mothers love. He was an innocent little baby. How could he understand what was wrong when neither the pediatricians nor I could. Why allow him to suffer when we knew what would comfort him. It just boggles my mind.

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Yes.

 

Self-defense.

 

If a woman knees you in the nards, unprovoked.

Etc.

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I don't believe in moral absolutes of any sort... so of course I can conjure up scenarios where I think it'd be acceptable to hit a woman. Self-defense and all. But I think it's unacceptable for a man to hit a woman in any but the more extreme and rare of circumstances. Same dynamic as an adult hitting a child... I think the physically stronger party should excersize restraint if at all possible.

 

As far as the concept of "fighting fair" goes... that's an alien concept to me. I'm pretty damn non-violent- I haven't been in any sort of physical altercation for about 12 years. I'll only fight if I have a DAMN good reason (mostly self-defense, though I could probably be goaded into it for other reasons). If the situation is dire enough that I have to resort to physical means... then all bets are off. I'm a fairly large and strong hillbilly... but I've got no illusions of being John Wayne. If eyes, nose, nuts, or neck are exposed and I reckon it's neccesary- I'll twist 'em off.

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Did some quick research on Babywise and there are warnings all over the place.

 

Including this, from the elders of the church with which Ezzo was first affiliated:

 

Almost three years ago, the elders of Grace Community Church issued a public statement about Growing Families International (GFI) and Gary Ezzo. In addition to several concerns about the extra-biblical content of GFI materials and divisive tendencies in the GFI program, we also initially voiced some rather significant concerns about Mr. Ezzo's personal character.

 

Specifically, we reported that he had shown a pattern of resisting accountability, and that he was not always truthful. (We had become aware of several instances in which Mr. Ezzo twisted the truth, ranging from a false claim that he held a degree he had never really earned, to the spreading of false reports about our church in a manner that appeared to be deliberately divisive.)

 

Mr. Ezzo subsequently met with one of our elders and expressed a desire to rectify our major concerns about his character. He assured us that he was making himself accountable to a group of men he trusted--the pastor and elders of Living Hope Evangelical Fellowship (LHEF).

 

In the interest of seeking peace, we issued a revised and abbreviated version of our public statement. In that revised statement, the concerns we had raised about Mr. Ezzo's integrity and accountability were no longer expressly mentioned, pending further action on Mr. Ezzo's part to mitigate or allay those concerns. After the revised statement was issued, however, Mr. Ezzo made no further attempt to address the larger concerns we had raised about his personal character.

(Emphases mine)

 

Full report here

 

It would appear Mr Ezzo is of the class of persons who are known as "wannabees" and "imposters". His actions after having been caught out are also typical of the behaviour of such persons. Might I also point out that claiming University Degrees one hasn't earned is very much akin to wearing military decorations and accoutrements to which one is not entitled?

 

Normally I would be the last person to quote the bible, but one of its verses doesn't seem out of place here:

 

If a man cannot be trusted in small things, how can he be trusted in great?

Casey

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Hell yes it's okay. A knuckle sandwich is a knuckle sandwich no matter who delivers it. I've worked restaurants and bars where not only was I the manager, cook or bartender, but I also had to be the bouncer. An unruly bitch is just as bad as some other asshole having a bad day and when they decide it is time to start fighting then one has to protect oneself. I get a fist flying at my face, whoever throws that punch is not likely to have another chance at it. You may protect yourself from harm, no matter who is assaulting you but you cannot use more force than necessary to defend yourself or someone else. If an attack is about to happen, you may also preempt that attack by getting the first punch in. This almost always is valid for your own protection if you cannot run away or you have others with you whom you have to protect, such as running a bar or restaurant and you have to defend your other patrons. Knowing when to preempt takes training and lots of patience dealing with people to defuse the situation before things get out of hand. Protect yourself from anyone and everyone!

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