Who Were Your Heroes Of The Faith?

[mulls]

I'm curious as to who you might have looked up to as a Christian and desired to be like or learn from. Pastors, parents, friends, teachers, etc. I'm especially curious about the "brand-name" Christians you may have followed closely....famous preachers, authors, missionaries, etc.

 

And since your deconversion, do you now have any ex-Christians, broadly known or personally known, that you greatly respect and who have helped you out?

[R. S. Martin]

I just came from your other thread. For a guy who claims to have been lurking these forums for the best part of a year you ask some awfully strange questions. Basically, you prove that you haven't been lurking at all. You just say you were. That being the case, you're probably just saying you're curious about the things you're asking here and your "curiosity" is just a cover for something more sinister. You're just a con artist and your art is to evangelize. You'd be well advised to go to people who haven't been through the process. Folks here know all the tricks. Many have been evangelists themselves, pastors, missionaries, the whole nine yards. But if you had actually been lurking as you claim you would know all this from reading our testimonies.

[Kuroikaze]

*shrug* perhaps your intentions are more than they seem, I can't judge whats is going on in your head, I'll answer you cause I'm feeling friendly tonight.

 

When I was a Christian I followed several different denominations, while I was in high school I was Methodist, and during college I mostly went to non-denominational churches, but I spent most of my time involved in a campus ministry www.stumo.org if you are interested. It is a missions heavy ministry, with summer and overseas projects.

 

I was a big fan of C.S. Lewis, and generally followed Armenian theology.

 

As far as non-believers I know, there are quite a few people on this site, but otherwise not many. Bertrand Russel comes to mind, as well as Bart Ehrman, perhaps Sam Harris...I could probably think of more if I took the time, but that will do for now.

[PandaPirate]

I followed the Word of Faith crowd a lot. I watched Creflo Dollar and Joyce Meyer and also Charles Stanley.

[RIPw4]

None of them!

[pandora]

I tend to not be a follower of personality cults, but I did like Max Lucado as a Christian.

[Alice]

Hi there Mulls,

 

Before my deconversion I really liked Phillip Yancy and Brian McClaren. Although they write under the banner of Christianity I think its fairly clear now that they contributed to my deconversion, their teaching definitely undermine fundamentalism although they don't set out with this as an agenda. I still like the way they write - it seems honest to me, so eventhough I have reached different conclusions I can appreciate their words.

 

The person whose writings now possibly has the most influence on me is Anthony DeMello, who also considered himself a Christian but was excommunicated from the RC Church of which he was a member (he was also influenced by buddhism, hinduism and psychology). I'm just getting into some Tolstoy.

 

I didn't really do the 'personality thing' as a Christian either. Had one pastor I really looked up to. Liked his honesty, his willingnes to reveal his vulnerabilities, his gentleness. These things tend not to be great crowd pullers however. Shame. Blush to admit it, but I quite liked Nicky Gumbel for a time (probably doesn't mean much outside of the UK) - the ultimate in english middle class niceness - but not much substance.

 

Who influences you?

[1oddmanout]

JL Packer as an author, and an elderly assistant at InterVarsity Press, who continually showed the best example of someone living a warm Xian life. Also, a jailhouse chaplain; none of which could persuade me to remain an Xian.

 

Today, no heroes, but some organizations are quite amazing, such as thegratitutdecampaign.com, http://www.freerice.com/index.php, and http://www.labelsareforjars.org/index.html; also, Al Gore.

[Ouroboros]

I'm curious as to who you might have looked up to as a Christian and desired to be like or learn from. Pastors, parents, friends, teachers, etc. I'm especially curious about the "brand-name" Christians you may have followed closely....famous preachers, authors, missionaries, etc.

 

And since your deconversion, do you now have any ex-Christians, broadly known or personally known, that you greatly respect and who have helped you out?

I didn't have one particular. I studied and listened to many different preachers and teachers (in the hundreds) and took the things I considered to be best, like the Bible tells you to do.

 

During my first 15 years as a Christian, I was mostly pentecostal, but in the second half I was mostly a hard core literalist/creationist/word of faith guy

 

I don't have any particular Ex-Christian that helps me or support me. You see it's rather lonely to be one. It's not like you look up Ex-Chrsitians Assembly Church in the yellowpages.

[Ouroboros]

I followed the Word of Faith crowd a lot. I watched Creflo Dollar and Joyce Meyer and also Charles Stanley.

Oh, you were too? I never watched the ones you mentioned though.

 

I listened and read Kenneth Hagin, Kennet Copeland, Oral Roberts, Rod Parsley and so on.

[Kelli]

No particular leaders or heros, though early on (shocker!) I followed James Dobson and Focus On The Family, even as a teenager. Long story on that.

 

I don't have any particular people I follow as an ex-Christian either. I tend to come to my own conclusions and do my own thing. I'm very much DIY even when it comes to matters of faith.

[Ouroboros]

Well said MM,

 

People who were brave enough to walk away, who are decent enough to have honest conversation and many who were truthful enough to tell me I needed help when I was falling back into chrisitanity. I don't make heros out of book authors and others who are unattainable to me personally- I never did as a christian either. I respect and have respected many writers. But my "heros" are always people I can connect with on a personal level, the average citizen who is accesible to me.

I wonder if people who are able to stand on their own feet and not asking for guidance from a hero here and a hero there, are just the people that are able to break away from the bondage of religion? I mean, it does require a certain level of independence to think for one-self and realize the silliness of Christianity. So maybe we won't see many Ex-Christians that had or have heros or idols of any kind?

[R. S. Martin]

The "person" I always fall back on is a mythical figure Jesus as depicted in the NT. He's not a mentor or hero or anything. You can see in my avatar that I do my own thinking. And so did he. So it happens quite frequently that there are parallels between my life and the story of his. Why his life if there are so many others in the literature? Because his is the story I know.

 

When it came to forming my own theology/philosophy on life, we're talking about people like Abraham H. Maslow, Carl Rogers, and Paul Tillich, and all the great atheists as their messages came to me mainly via these forums and Internet Infidels.

 

All of this was after I started doing my own thinking. Life before that was just one great blur of pain. I don't even want to go there.

 

It's not like I'm saying anything in this post that I haven't said in many others. So you already know all this IF you have been lurking as you claim.

[R. S. Martin]

I wonder if people who are able to stand on their own feet and not asking for guidance from a hero here and a hero there, are just the people that are able to break away from the bondage of religion? I mean, it does require a certain level of independence to think for one-self and realize the silliness of Christianity. So maybe we won't see many Ex-Christians that had or have heros or idols of any kind?

 

Wow! No wonder I feel at home here. All my life I've felt like there was something wrong with me because I could never name a favourite author when asked. But this thread is so much like me. No specific author or hero, just bits and pieces here and there that fit together to make a framework of truth that works for me in my situation where I find myself now. Most of the time I can tell where my ideas come from but they are eclectic--meaning they come from a variety of sources like I just explained.

 

I respect Madame M but I am not her. So it naturally follows that I cannot live my life based on the pattern of hers. Or any other person's. Pitchu is another woman on here whom I respect a lot but again, I am not her. I know a woman in real life who life parallels mine more closely than anyone on here, but there are very important differences and, well, I am not her. I am me and I do my own thinking. This other lady is a Christian and I am not. A lot of folks on here who recognize only fundy Christians would condemn her as not a Christian but she is a Christian all the same.

 

The difference between this Christian lady and me is that she relates to a higher power and I do not. I feel exhausted simply at the thought of having to relate to an invisible imperceptible entity. She does not. But we have shared very deeply and supported each other in difficult times.

[R. S. Martin]

When he asked the question, I felt silly because I couldn't think of anyone.

 

You too?

 

I guess we were writing at the same time.

[HuaiDan]

Ronald Reagan

[Deva]

The answer is no and no. I read a wide variety of Christian authors when I was one, of many different denominations. There were several that I did admire at the time, but no hero worship was ever involved.

 

I have never seen a pastor, minister or priest in my life that I can say I really admired.

[Sparrow]

I'm curious as to who you might have looked up to as a Christian and desired to be like or learn from. Pastors, parents, friends, teachers, etc. I'm especially curious about the "brand-name" Christians you may have followed closely....famous preachers, authors, missionaries, etc.

 

And since your deconversion, do you now have any ex-Christians, broadly known or personally known, that you greatly respect and who have helped you out?

 

It is a very strange question, and your motives are questionable, but since I'm also feeling friendly tonight I'll answer your question.

 

As a christian my "hero's" (or the people I looked up to) were few. There were people I admired and whom I wanted to emmulate, but ultimately, I thought it went against the faith to have human hero's.

 

As an athiest I still don't have any hero's, but nor are there people I wish to emmulate. I do however, admire a number of individuals for their thoughts and views and ability to crystalize certain ideas and points.

 

However and to be honest, having "hero's" and people to emmulate and / or follow closely like some savior, in my humble opinion trvializes the human experience and particularly what I can do for myself. I'm capable of learning and improving myself, I'm able to think and better myself. Most situation involving my happiness and success are purely up to me, I am in most cases the mistress of my own destiny.

 

Wanting hero's (in any sense other than television entertainment), is immature and trvial, and so I don't need (nor do I want), a savior, a hero, a god, a messiah, a guru, a leader, pastor, or any other individual who would willing without a second thought take control of my life if I were stupid enough to hand it to them.

 

Ultimately, as an athiest I did what many christians and other religios folk fail to do - I simply grew up and became an adult - therefore I don't need someone to "look up to" - anymore than I need santa clause, the easter bunny or the tooth fairy.

 

Thanks

 

Spatz

[mulls]

It's not like I'm saying anything in this post that I haven't said in many others. So you already know all this IF you have been lurking as you claim.

 

So I'm supposed to know every answer to every question that every person gives just because I've been lurking? Come on.

 

BTW, I just bought a book by Paul Tillich, "A History of Christian Thought." I don't know the first thing about him, but the book was on sale for like 5 bucks at Borders.

[mulls]

I appreciate everyone's responses. That wasn't so painful, was it?

[Deva]

I appreciate everyone's responses. That wasn't so painful, was it?

 

Possibly you are trying to be funny, but it sounds like you are prejudging that questions from a Christian would be "Painful" to us in some way. Not so good a way to start a dialogue.

[Taphophilia]

I didn't have any heros, like many here I just gleaned what I heard.

 

My heros now? Go look at my friends list.

 

Taph

[Ouroboros]

When he asked the question, I felt silly because I couldn't think of anyone. If I admired someone, I would tend to start looking at them critically. I don't follow well, never have.

That is SO me too. I've been in several businesses as partner, and I've been working as employee for different companies, and it always become a problem when I have to follow other people's orders. I want to decide on my own, and be on full control of my own time and my own actions.

 

People who engage in hero worship tend to not look at what that person is saying critically. I think that is the difference between leaving christianity and spending one's life just changing churches looking for a more pure "hero" to look up to or spending ones life in the same church overlooking the pastors faults. The is why you will see churches take in a pastor with a past of embezzlement or sexual abuse, because they think the person's "just messed up" or was "falsley accused" but deserves a second chance becasue their sermons were so annointed. Gag!

This also relates to the "commonly accepted contract" you get by having a religion. By default people think that if someone say he's a Christian, it means that he's more likely to be "good" and be "right" in things, and they actually become more guillable to what they say. To say one is Christian is like unlocking the doors of skepticism and criticism, and suddenly people swallow 99% of what the preacher say. But if he say he's of a different denomination that is less accepted, or if he's of a different religion, now suddenly only 1% of what he say is accepted.

 

 

Wow! No wonder I feel at home here. All my life I've felt like there was something wrong with me because I could never name a favourite author when asked. But this thread is so much like me. No specific author or hero, just bits and pieces here and there that fit together to make a framework of truth that works for me in my situation where I find myself now. Most of the time I can tell where my ideas come from but they are eclectic--meaning they come from a variety of sources like I just explained.

You know what's even more funny, one of my kids asked which music group was my favorite, and I had to seriously think, and I finally can settle on about 10 groups. And favorite music would rather be a larger set of pieces of certain groups or classical composers, but there's only one single composition: Symp #9 The new world by Dvorak, that completely grabs my innermost being.

 

The difference between this Christian lady and me is that she relates to a higher power and I do not. I feel exhausted simply at the thought of having to relate to an invisible imperceptible entity. She does not. But we have shared very deeply and supported each other in difficult times.

I guess both hero worship and deity worship is somewhat about the projection of what we want to be or what we want to become. It's the longing of becoming a better person. Why do we long after that? It must be a genetic trait which is part of why humanity strive so hard for progress and development of new ideas, new worlds and new techology?

[Ouroboros]

BTW, I just bought a book by Paul Tillich, "A History of Christian Thought." I don't know the first thing about him, but the book was on sale for like 5 bucks at Borders.

I think I saw that one last week when I was x-mas shopping. Have you started to read it yet? I also saw a book about witchcraft. Maybe I'll go there later today or tomorrow and get them both.

[R. S. Martin]

It's not like I'm saying anything in this post that I haven't said in many others. So you already know all this IF you have been lurking as you claim.

 

So I'm supposed to know every answer to every question that every person gives just because I've been lurking? Come on.

 

BTW, I just bought a book by Paul Tillich, "A History of Christian Thought." I don't know the first thing about him, but the book was on sale for like 5 bucks at Borders.

 

 

 

If you have been lurking you should definitely have learned something. That is what happens to most people who lurk here. You demonstrate having learned nothing. Hence your claim of lurking is suspect.

 

About buying a book. I know a story about getting a book. This silly goose named Petunia got herself a book and thought she was smart. Finally she read it. At the end it said, "Smart Petunia." You see, in order to learn you have to actually do more than get the book or open the forums.

 

If you want to talk about Paul Tillich. I read his Courage to Be and did a few papers on various parts of it. I also read various parts of his Systematic Theology. I like the guy. I have never read a book or taken a course by the name of History of Christian Thought, but I did take a two-semester graduate course on History of Christianity two years ago. I am presently learning about the history of fundamentalism and reading Charles Hodge's Systematic Theology. I have also read Jerry Falwell's Autobiography and Oswald J. Smith's Story of My Life, and Can Organized Religion Survive. Plus very many other books that are part of the history of Christian thought. What is your point?