I Am A Christian - Any Questions?

[1United]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc... I am not a fundamentalist, I am not orthodox, I am not lead by the wolves. The only thing I ask of [you] is to come with open mind, and truly wish to understand the position I hold as a Christian. [Follower of Christ] A closed mind is a self created snare, by which we shut ourselves off from further understanding. I will do my best to answer any and all questions you might have about my position as a Christian.

 

Some things to start out with:

 

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

 

2) Satan is not a literal being

 

3) All is eternal

 

4) Death is just another beginning

 

Some things are not so clear in scripture, but they are there just the same. All one must do to see it, is desire truth, and seek harmony with God

 

Take care,

 

1

[Rhia]

So you're a liberal Christian, eh? Wanna learn more about us, don'tcha?

 

I don't trust you as far as I can throw you - and I'm sure that ain't far. You come on and immediately condemn us for being "unwise" for dismissing the very mythos that you claim you don't even believe in! How is that not being a condescending asshole?!

 

Sorry, but the type of Christian I do come from is pretty strict - either you believe all, or nothing. It's impossible to really be a Christian and pick-and-choose your own bible for your own interpretations. Either you accept what has been handed to you, or you don't.

 

Makes me glad I'm not a Christian anymore - I can actually say that Satan is a myth.

 

You joined AN HOUR AGO. I doubt you have gone through our posts and discovered that you don't belong here. You have no clue what you're doing here, little one. If you play with fire, you WILL get burned. I don't care about your position as a Christian - we don't care... hence why it's called EX-CHRISTIAN!!! We've heard them all. Go away, you have already shown a lack of compassion, understanding, and honesty by coming in and making this your first post. You didn't even have the courtesy to lurk for a month!

 

You'd do well to leave now with your tail between your legs, and with these words of wisdom to all fundies (oh wait! You claim you aren't one, but you sure sound like one!) ringing in your proverbial internet ears: "Pull you head out of your ass - THEN POST"!!!!

[♦ nivek ♦]

Heya U1,

 

I am a Shooter.

 

Seeking the Blessing of God as John Moses Browning by raising the chemical nuances, ballistics, assorted numerology, Kaintuck windage, Good Fortune, and of course the Right Gun, I seek JMB in his fullness.

 

Could care less what others think of my passion, as I can see results made in part by the Master's hand in design and forever lasting engineering. (Pox upon Combat Tupperware!)

 

Can feel, see and handle the items, totems, and objects JMbaG and Mauser Brothers spoke and drew, designed intelligently into creation. There is NO argument in JMBaG or Mausers, Peter and Paul (Blessed are those Holey Names!) existed, and that their creative juices flow from then until now, despite all inherent eviles of post modern construction made of plastics, so called *synthetics*.

 

In hands of the True Believer, Creations made of REAL wood and REAL steel, milled and forged, not cast and moulded, Words of Power and True Glory are given to the masses of those needing converted.

 

All hail! Ma Duece, 1911 and every bad cowboy movie rifle yet used, along with tens of millions of Rifles made by True Engineers are exhibit of the gloriousness of the Stolid and True Engineers.

 

Now...

 

What the fuck does yer pissant little god have to offer?

 

k, True hater of Crunchentickers (HAIL HOLEY JOHN MOSES BROWNING!), FL

[Japedo]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc...

 

Well I think it's unwise talking out of your ass, yet here you are doing it.. There are more facts that support the dogma being a myth then being anything remotely real. Do you honestly think people here have arrived here with out deep searching and seeking? Oh Unwise one, open your eyes.

 

 

I am not a fundamentalist, I am not orthodox, I am not lead by the wolves. The only thing I ask of [you] is to come with open mind, and truly wish to understand the position I hold as a Christian. [Follower of Christ] A closed mind is a self created snare, by which we shut ourselves off from further understanding. I will do my best to answer any and all questions you might have about my position as a Christian.

 

Don't ask from others that which you can NOT do yourself.

 

 

Some things to start out with:

 

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity---- No shit sherlock, It's as real as Santas workshop..

 

2) Satan is not a literal being --- Neither is God

 

3) All is eternal --- All which includes death as well?

 

4) Death is just another beginning-- Of what?

[Ouroboros]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc...

And I think it's unwise to shrug off our experience. Most of us here used to be Christians, and just to assume that we just shrugged of Christianity one afternoon because we ate some bad sushi or had too many beans at the local Taco place is a bit arrogant. My de-conversion didn't come out of me rolling the dice or getting the hick-ups. It came from a life long experience as a Christian and how it failed and how I lost my trust in its teachings, dogma, ideas, holy book and mostly a divine supernatural Master Santa Clause who had conflicting attributes. It is silly. It is a fairy tale. And it's only upheld by ignorance and arrogance and people insisting on not trying to view the world from a rational standpoint but from an emotional. With that being said. Welcome 1United, and usually I prefer more liberal Christians anyway, but do understand, most of our de-conversions did not come cheap or easy and were not caused by a little "oh, it's just a fairy tale" phrase. For some it was a long process. Just remember that.

[Max]

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

 

2) Satan is not a literal being

 

I dare say that most xtians would strongly disagree with you on this one. I sat through many a sermon on the "personal devil" and the literal suffering in hell. "You have to believe in a personal devil if you believe in a personal god..."

 

Your post makes no argument for the actual existance of god. That's where the rubber meets the road.

[Max]

And I think it's unwise to shrug off our experience. Most of us here used to be Christians, and just to assume that we just shrugged of Christianity one afternoon ...

 

Here, here! It was a long and painful process based on bible study, unanswered prayers, rational examination, researching history, and on and on.

[GraphicsGuy]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc...

 

Well, as a few others have so eloquently said already, it was hardly "shrugged" off. However, I'll leave that where it lays at the moment.

 

If you don't believe that hell nor the devil is literal then why would it be unwise to "shrug off" Xianity? Doesn't seem to be any demerits for doing so in that case.

 

It doesn't mean we aren't "spiritual" (for lack of a better term). It doesn't mean we aren't still journeying and discovering life. We just do it without any "help" from some sort of misplaced faith.

[Sparrow]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc...

 

Yeah, yeah - just another blowhard on the way through -

 

Guess what? I do think it is wise to shrug off christianity - infact, I think it is the smartest thing anyone could do.

 

The best thing that can be done with christianity and any other "Ju-Ju" is, not only to shrug them off, but to throw them out the door.

 

Go it? Good!

 

 

Now go away!

 

 

Spatz

[Guest WarrantedPVC]

1United, you're coming into a "Lion's Den" (literally and metaphorically) - I understand you want to help us but Christianity (the belief in general, and the people) caused so much hurt to a lot of people here that you shouldn't be surprised at "heated" responses. I imagine the sort of treatment you're getting here is not exactly ideal but many of us had once been just like you, and ended up being like we are now. As Christians, we got the same treatment from non-believers and prayed for the sinners or condemned them or attempted exorcisms (depending on our denomination), but in all cases we felt hurt. Years later, we deconverted through serious and painful struggles and we understood why we were once treated like we were, and felt ashamed.

 

I want you to understand that for a lot of people here, including myself, leaving Christianity has been the most painful experience of our lives (despite life isn't generally bubbling with happiness). For me, deconversion was a 6-month struggle. Half of those nights I spent awake in tears, on my knees, begging God to "give me faith" and not let me fall away from him. The rest of the time I spent self-flaggellating in an attempt to remove sin from my life and to show God I loved him. In the middle I had a nervous breakdown, developed anemia, a messed up hormone system, my hair started falling out and by the end I had lost one quarter of my body weight - all because of the stress (and I had never been overweight). My parents were beginning to seriously worry that I had cancer or some other serious illness, simply because I started looking like a zombie, was depressed and tired all the time. But it was not cancer, it was the deconversion I was going through (which they didn't know about), and me trying to avoid with all my power. Needless to say, God didn't make a move to help.

 

I deconverted with the conviction that one of the followings must have been the case:

1) Christianity wasn't true and deconverting was doing the right thing

2) God existed but for some reason I didn't understand was crushing me into deconversion (or letting the devil do it) - again, deconversion was the right thing

3) Some other power existed, not God, in that case I could never have any idea whatsoever what or who it was so deconverting wouldn't make a difference.

 

Interestingly, after I deconverted, and stopped trying to make sense of things which couldn't be made sense of, and stopped crying and feeling miserable all the time, my health improved dramatically. I still think I was happier as a Christian, but then I am closer to the truth now, so a loss of some happiness isn't that big a price to pay. (I deconverted in 2005.)

 

I know you cannot imagine that a person who has a "relationship with Christ" (which, by the way, many of us genuinely believed we had) may deconvert but let me tell you, as much as I wish you understood, I don't wish a deconversion for you. If you want us to challenge your faith then OK we can do that but I'd think twice about it - if you let the Truth prevail, it is quite likely going to shock you, like it shocked us. No matter which version of Christianity you believe, the problem is not with the things that "don't make sense" which you can attempt to explain away (like people have done for centuries) - the problem is with faith itself. So no matter how "watertight" or "make-sense" you believe your faith is, it's not safe, it cannot be safe, from what led me to deconversion.

 

But whether you want to go down that road or not, I just ask that you PLEASE stop judging us. If even in your first paragraph you spew arrogance and show how little you understand us, by suggesting we just "shrugged it off" and have "closed minds", and then assume a higher level of understanding on your part than what we had as Christians (do note that some of us probably know the Bible better than you, and ones like me read it in Hebrew and Greek and still know it by heart!), you can't expect that people will await you with a red carpet and golden doorknobs. At least please make an attempt to first understand who we are and how we got here, before you make assumptions. You can have no idea what a deconversion is like unless you go through one - I know it's difficult to accept that, but please try, or else people will be sending you to warmer climates.

 

As I used to say as a Christian, but still say it sometimes: don't judge a person until you've walked at least 200 miles in his shoes - but then you're 200 miles away, and in his shoes...

 

PVC

[Evolution_beyond]

I have three questions that I would like to ask of any christian.

 

1. How can infinite God become finite man without losing his infinity and therefore his divinity? If infinite God become finite man - doesn't he simply become a divinely inspired man? In what way can you still call him God? God incarnated as a man seems to be logically impossible to me.

 

2. Why did God feel the need to sacrifice himself in order to do something as simple as allowing himself to forgive us? Isn't it a little insane for an all-powerful being to strictly limit himself in such a fashion that he can't forgive people unless he makes the outrageous gesture of incarnating as a human and then killing himself? It doesn't make sense to me. Why can't he simply forgive people who ask for forgiveness if that's what he wants to do? He is all-powerful God. He made the rules in the first place. Also he is outside of time so he could change the rules and make those new rules so that they always applied from the very beginning. I don't see why he would have to sacrifice himself. It doesn't seem very omnipotent to me. Who is forcing him to stick to his original plan?

 

3. Finally - The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. It is wrong of the Bible to say this - and it is intolerant (and therefore immoral). How can you trust the words of a book that is clearly wrong, intolerant and immoral?

[Emme]

I am a Christian

 

Gotta love the word christian. There are as many definitions of a christian as there are christians, it allows almost every belief there is.

So beside the things mentioned above, what are your beliefs? Just want to know what you are.

[Mythra]

A question, huh?

 

Okay - explain to me why Yahweh was satiated (actually the text says "turned from his fierce anger") after the STONING OF ACHAN'S LITTLE KIDS.

 

Now, these kids were not the EVIL little kids that belonged to the EVIL Canaanites.

 

These little kids were Hebrew kids. God's own chosen ones. Who did nothing wrong, except having a father who shoplifted.

 

Once you provide an explanation for this, we'll see if you're worth talking about anything more substantive.

[Deva]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc... I am not a fundamentalist, I am not orthodox, I am not lead by the wolves. The only thing I ask of [you] is to come with open mind, and truly wish to understand the position I hold as a Christian. [Follower of Christ] A closed mind is a self created snare, by which we shut ourselves off from further understanding. I will do my best to answer any and all questions you might have about my position as a Christian.

 

Please get this straight. Your elevation of your own form of Christianity (whatever it may be) over other forms of Christianity does not impress me and as you can already see, doesn't impress most other people on here either.

 

OK, per your request, here are my questions:

 

Someone already said this, but I repeat: You say you are not orthodox. Why are we unwise to shrug Christianity off completely when you have obviously "shrugged off" major Christian doctrines yourself? Isn't that hypocritical of you?

 

What is a "follower of Christ"?

[Mythra]

What is a "follower of Christ"?

 

Oh, I can answer that one, DevaLight.

 

A "Follower of Christ" is someone who is a deep thinker. He makes no major decisions in his life without being fully convinced that this is the direction that Jesus wants him to go.

 

And, so he spends time on his knees. Talking to Jesus and thinking. Once this person has fully made up his mind about what he ought to do, he convinces himself that the idea came from the Creator of the Universe, who is intimately concerned with every detail of his life.

 

Thereby, insuring the "follower of Christ" that he is always in God's will.

 

And, when it turns out to be a totally stupid move, he goes back to God in prayer, to try and find out what lessons God was trying to teach him throughout the process. Making "spiritual development" the goal, when all else has failed.

 

It's a cute little mind game that is endlessly entertaining to the believer.

[Kelli]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc...

 

Well, that's one of the more amusing introductions I have read to date, but OK...

 

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

 

Yeah, I believed that for a while during my "downward" spiral out of Christianity. As a liberal Christian, which was my first Christian incarnation after my initial 17 year stint as a conservative, evangelical fundamentalist one...

 

2) Satan is not a literal being

 

OK... Believed that too. Actually, technically I still do.

 

3) All is eternal

 

We probably agree on that.

 

4) Death is just another beginning

 

Might agree on that too, but for different reasons.

 

Some things are not so clear in scripture, but they are there just the same. All one must do to see it, is desire truth, and seek harmony with God

 

The Scripture is about as clear as mud. Let me tell you a little story... When I was 17 I went to a technical school to learn to be a commercial electrician. The instructor started out, as is customary, teaching basic things like Ohm's Law. Guess what? The guy didn't even know what he was teaching! He didn't even know Ohm's Law and I had known it since I was 11 years old. So what did I do... I QUIT that crappy class and got my $5500 back. You wanna know why? Because if this guy couldn't even get his BASIC shit together, stuff that I already knew, how could I be sure he knew what the hell he was talking about when we got into things I didn't know?

 

See, that's how I view the Bible. You can't deny that it has contradictions and obvious nonsense that people try to pass off as truth. Even if part of it were really true, how can I really trust that? I can't. And I won't. Just like I refused to pay that school my hard-earned money, I refuse to dedicate anything, any part of my life any further to something that is so questionable and so obviously screwed up.

 

I am still a spiritual person. I just can't swallow the Bible as truth. I don't swallow any religious book or teaching as truth. I find my own truth, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. I follow my instincts and do what works for me. My faith is very, very personal and I don't push it on anyone, because it is mine and mine alone.

 

There is only one single thing I can find in the Bible that makes sense, and you can find it in pretty much every other religion. Most Christians call it the Golden Rule, I tend to like the Wiccan version better... "If it harm none, do what you will..." I prefer that because it is all-inclusive. Unlike the Christian version as in Matthew 7:12 "Do unto others what you would have them do to you," the Wiccan version includes taking care of our environment, the treatment of animals, etc. The Christian version is very selfish in that it is very human-centered and short-sighted. BTW, I am NOT Wiccan.

 

THAT is what I live by. Very simple. I don't need the Bible or any other holy book or belief system, or even "God" to live a good, harmonious life.

[Sparrow]

.. text ...

 

Ooooh ... you're taking questions, are you?

 

Lucky us!!!!

 

Ok then ... here's mine:

 

Since christianity is the source of all knowledge and wisdom, then what is Dark-Matter and Dark Energy?

 

Please provide verifiable evidence of "what" these items are.

 

Many Thanks ... looking forward to your answer.

 

Spatz

[Mythra]

I have a couple of other questions for this 1 fellow.

 

1. Does God really have the whole wide world in his hands?

 

2. Please explain the anachronism found in the gospels of Pharisees and Synagogues in Galilee in the early first century. And since we're talking about early first century biblical anachronisms, I guess you could provide compelling evidence that the term "rabbi" was an early first century term as well - as the gospels portray.

[quicksand]

Some things are not so clear in scripture, but they are there just the same. All one must do to see it, is desire truth, and seek harmony with God

Then what good is the Bible? Like many Christians, you cherry-pick from scripture to make the god you want, which in turn, that god becomes a mirror of yourself.

 

That's useless and incoherent to the point of being unintelligible.

 

Don't believe me?

 

You say there is no hell and satan is not real, however, the last sermon I listened to assured me that Hell was indeed real as real as purgatory and heaven.

 

One of you is wrong according to your individual worldviews.

 

 

4) Death is just another beginning

Then the word "death" is meaningless in the context.

[Mythra]

I think I lost count.

 

Is this the 1,347th "True Christian" to come to our site, or is it the 1,348th?

 

Has there ever been any two of them who received the same illumination from the Holy Spirit?

[Mythra]

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

2) Satan is not a literal being

3) All is eternal

4) Death is just another beginning

 

Well, I guess we could ask for compelling evidence to support these four assertions. But we would understand completely if these are "faith" items.

 

Of course, it all depends on the interpretation. I'm an atheist, and I can agree with all four of these, as long as I can provide the interpretation of them.

[Kelli]

I think I lost count.

 

Is this the 1,347th "True Christian" to come to our site, or is it the 1,348th?

 

Has there ever been any two of them who received the same illumination from the Holy Spirit?

 

I think you missed a few. Last I knew we were well over the 2,000 mark...

[Grandpa Harley]

Wasn't 'Death is just another beginning' the tag line for the Legacy of Kain Vampire game series?

[Mythra]

I think you missed a few. Last I knew we were well over the 2,000 mark...

 

YOU SEE? It's the shits to get old.

 

That Early Onset alzheimers is a bitch.

 

We should make them go through a little counter before they come in here, so we can keep track.

 

And I never knew that "true christianity" could come in so many different flavors. But I suppose it's always been so.

 

Probably always will be.

 

That darned old Holy Spirit just can't seem to get his story straight.

[1United]

So you're a liberal Christian, eh? Wanna learn more about us, don'tcha?

 

I don't trust you as far as I can throw you - and I'm sure that ain't far. You come on and immediately condemn us for being "unwise" for dismissing the very mythos that you claim you don't even believe in! How is that not being a condescending asshole?!

 

Not condescending, only honest...there is a difference. I doubt also that you could throw me too awful far, I imagine you are a little one. As for me condeming -I am not. I think that you are unwise, there is a difference. Am I any different than you, who think [me] unwise if not [stipid] to believe as truth so called "mythos" [As you say]

 

Lets not ne hypocritical, o.k?

 

Sorry, but the type of Christian I do come from is pretty strict - either you believe all, or nothing. It's impossible to really be a Christian and pick-and-choose your own bible for your own interpretations. Either you accept what has been handed to you, or you don't.

 

That is complete non-sense - Do you think the early Christian fathers had all truth at their disposal, or that bible is ultimate truth? A Christian by definitian of term is a[ follower of Christ]. You, like many, many others have been conditioned by the "Wolves" to believe - think in accordance to how they want you to think. There is more to bible than meetes the eye, and there are scpripture not even included in bible that help complete puzzle.

 

Makes me glad I'm not a Christian anymore - I can actually say that Satan is a myth.

 

Satan is a real, but not in literal sence - satan is carnal mind - [ego]

 

You joined AN HOUR AGO. I doubt you have gone through our posts and discovered that you don't belong here. You have no clue what you're doing here, little one. If you play with fire, you WILL get burned. I don't care about your position as a Christian - we don't care... hence why it's called EX-CHRISTIAN!!! We've heard them all. Go away, you have already shown a lack of compassion, understanding, and honesty by coming in and making this your first post. You didn't even have the courtesy to lurk for a month!

 

I have been here for over a year. I know what you are, and I know where you are coming from. I think it to be unwise to shut oneself off from a Christian viewpoint because of past experience with orthodoxy. You become upset because when I say this; that is pride, a product of ego- carnal mind - satan.

 

You'd do well to leave now with your tail between your legs, and with these words of wisdom to all fundies (oh wait! You claim you aren't one, but you sure sound like one!) ringing in your proverbial internet ears: "Pull you head out of your ass - THEN POST"!!!!

 

Why would I tuck tail and run? You are no threat to me...

 

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