I Am A Christian - Any Questions?

[1United]

Sounds like being possessed. No thanks, I live my own life. No spirits in here.

 

Everyone's a part of God? Your definition of God please - his attributes in particular.

 

Aren't you saying there is a separation between us and this "part of God" called Jesus (Agape, whatever) because of "sin"? Isn't that a contradiction?

 

God only true attribute is what I believe to be is His essence. [Love] We are not seperated from God, nor have we ever been seperated from God. We are a part of God. It is ego that givies us a false sense of seperation, it keeps us out of harmonay with God. Sin a a transgression of law which lead to death, and suffering. sin is beneficial, as we learn from suffering. We will eventually die to ego, to live through spirit and in harmony with God.

[Ouroboros]

What is sin?

[1United]

And you know all these things how? Invisible deities been whispering in your ear?

 

If God exist, then God must be all things.

[Guest WarrantedPVC]

1United, thanks for your response.

 

Like some people before me, I'd just like to ask you how you can know any of those things you claim to know with such certainty.

 

PVC

[Brother Jeff]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc... I am not a fundamentalist, I am not orthodox, I am not lead by the wolves. The only thing I ask of [you] is to come with open mind, and truly wish to understand the position I hold as a Christian. [Follower of Christ] A closed mind is a self created snare, by which we shut ourselves off from further understanding. I will do my best to answer any and all questions you might have about my position as a Christian.

 

Some things to start out with:

 

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

 

2) Satan is not a literal being

 

3) All is eternal

 

4) Death is just another beginning

 

Some things are not so clear in scripture, but they are there just the same. All one must do to see it, is desire truth, and seek harmony with God

 

Take care,

 

1

So a belief system that includes obviously mythical people, obviously mythical places, talking animals, invisible spooks of all sorts, and one Invisible Friend who is somehow magically Three Invisible Friends isn't a fairy tale? Yeah, right. I shrugged off Christianity several years ago, and I have no regrets at all, except for having spent 15 years of my life mistaking ludicrous religious bullshit for "Divine Truth". I finally WOKE THE FUCK UP and ditched it all in a hell of a hurry once my brain awoke from its long religious slumber.

 

You are not a True Christian™.

 

 

Embrace The Jesus Zombie before it's too late!!!!

 

Glory!

[Kelli]

And you know all these things how? Invisible deities been whispering in your ear?

 

If God exist, then God must be all things.

 

You *are* a pantheist!

 

Why do you even care to come here to try and convert us?

[1United]

That sounds like pantheism. That at least makes more sense than Christianity.

 

Does the Bible (scripture) really say that God is All in All? I'm not sure. I don't remember all the Bible education anymore. Is that in epistles?

 

Yes it does, and it is in Ephesians, and 1 Corinthians

 

 

Hell on Earth, that's very true. I lived true a bad experience which was part of causing my de-conversion. I feel like me and my family went to Hell and came back, but our transformation from that process was that we all lost faith in a fantasy world and imaginary beings.

 

But that suffering stems from sin is not accurate. My son who was just a few years old is the one the suffered most and still suffers from it. He barely had time to collect any transgressions, while it would have made sense if I personally had suffered all the consequences. So in reality, it's the innocent that suffer and the guilty easily go free.

 

To say that Christ is "love" or "law" or "freedom" or whatever, is just a very common trick in Christianity. Just pick something that you think is great, important and fashionable for everyone to believe and think about and then say "That's what Jesus is". So I love Chocolate, that makes Jesus chocolate. It's a problem of equivocation. If Jesus exists as a person, how can he be a concept? Love is a concept, something abstract, like "color" or "comfort" or "amazing". Do you say Jesus is color, and comfort and the definition of amazing too? Does it mean that if you look at something amazing, that thing is the same as Jesus? How can a person be the source of a concept? It's just propaganda and word games and have no real meanings. It just sounds cool and fancy. "Bob is love" or "Bob is color" or "Bob is life, meaning of existence and best tasting Chocolate, and that all means that Bob is the master of the Universe." ... it's just word games without real sensible content.

 

Sin is transgressin against all laws that are in place. Not all suffering stem from sin, but suffering is product of sin. When mankind work together for good of humanity, then we will cure disease, and lessen the natural element of suffering caused by it.

 

There is but one law that fulfill all law, that law is the law which is written in heart- [Agape] Christ is that law, he is the Word, or logos.[Not chocolate] In the beginning was love, love was with God, adn love was god. ALL things were made through love, and without love was not anything made that was made...

 

There is a reason for suffering; it is so we might learn from it. Suffering build character, it make us stronger in heart.

[1United]

Ummm. Except that I don't believe in Christ... So where does that leave me, in your opinion?

 

Oh yeah, and there you go quoting an entire post again <sigh>...

 

[sorry]

 

Believe in Love - Love is the law above all laws. It will lead you to God.

[Guest WarrantedPVC]

Yeah, good point Madame M. We could have a "Christians, discuss this among yourselves" subforum where we present just about any topic from the teachings of Christianity, to see how many of them can agree. I'm not talking about small and irrelevant issues from the Bible, I mean the very central dogmas we are supposed to base our lives on... Which books of the Bible are we meant to accept as Scripture (and how do we make that choice)? Is the Bible free of errors, or is it man-made (while perhaps overall still God-inspired)? Is the Bible meant to be understood metaphorically in places, or literally everywhere? How does the Holy Spirit communicate with people? Was Jesus really God himself, or God's son? Did Jesus really die for everyone's sins, or only the sins of select people? Is there predestination? etc. etc.

 

How do we know who to trust? None of the beliefs are more believable than the others, as none of them have any "objective" reason to believe what they believe. Why is it a virtue to believe any random explanation just for the sake of believing?

 

PVC

[Mythra]

Put 6 christians from different denoms in a room with an atheist, and the atheist doesn't even have to argue, all s/he has to do is wait and pretty soon the christians will defeat themselves by shooting down every point the other christians make.

 

Well, look on the bright side. Jesus can identify with us in every way - in the fact that even his prayers didn't get answered:

 

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

[Grandpa Harley]

Thus sin can't exist in the traditional sense,and you, "Gender not set", are as far from orthodox Christianity as any here...

 

So which parts of 'scripture' are correct, which are false and why does the 1st Ecumenical council hold so much sway in the world view you espouse?

 

Truth can be found in any text, you must dig it out. Yes, I am far removed from orthoxy, but orthodoxy is not true Christianity. [imo] My point is that, just because you fell from prthodox views, doesn't mean you cannot be Chrisyian. Christian mean follower of Christ - follower of Christ is one who live through Spirit as oppssed to ego. The Spirit is Agape [Love - Christ]

 

Yes, yes, I'm familiar with the Greek, you babbling Muppet... pulling the word like a shiv doesn't mean much, since it means 'love' not Christ, which derives from Chrism, or oil as in 'anointed one' Thus far you're spouting warmed over, post 1st Ecumenical Council Platonism...

The rest is gibberish, so I'd suggest you wither stop dropping what ever you're dropping or change your supplier... At the moment you're sounding like someone strung out on mushrooms...

[1United]

then god is not everything and in everything, because how could be be part of a false religion?

 

Your answer seems a little too concrete compared to your other answers. But OK

 

Question #2: If God answers prayes "yes", "no" or "later" then how do you know that he answered your salvation prayer with a "yes"? Maybe he answered "no" or "later" and you are not saved at all.

 

God is everything, even false religion - even ego! I am not saved, I Im in proscess of salvation. I will have salvation, when I find complete harmony with God. Love is the Spirit of truth, it is through love that we are reconciled back to God. We tame ego, [which is also a part of God] and we gain awareness of God Grace. Grace come through Spirit [Agape - Love]

 

We all have measure of Spirit, even false religion. False religion is not false unless it teach against Love. Even then, it is part of God, as God use false religion to Help others. Take orthodoxy. It helped you realize that God was not as they say. There is benefit in all things.

[Grandpa Harley]

and pulling the Gnostic stuff would indicate that you should know that any scripture is a myth... it is the pointing finger, not the moon... Something to chew...

 

If I take a lamp and shine toward the wall, a bright spot will appear on the wall. The lamp is our search for truth, for understanding. Too often we assume the light on the wall is God, but the light is not the goal of the search, it is the result of the search. The more intense the search, the brighter the light on the wall. The brighter the light on the wall, the greater the revelation upon seeing it. Similarly, someone who does not search, who does not bring a lantern with him, sees nothing. What we perceive as God is the by-product of our search for God. It may simply be an appreciation of the light, pure and unblemished. Not understanding that it comes from us, sometimes, we stand in front of the light and assume we are the center of the universe. God looks astonishingly like we do. Or we turn to look at our shadow and assume all is darkness. If we allow ourselves to get in the way, we defeat the purpose - which is use the light of our search to illuminate the wall in all its beauty and all it flaws, and in so doing, better understand the world around us.

 

Pick the bones out of that...

[1United]

According to what you've been saying in this thread alone, ANYONE who believes in eternal hell isn't a Christian. That, by the way, automatically turns roughly 80% of all Christians into non-Christians.

Anyone who believes Satan is a actual being isn't a Christian... so much for Job then.

Anyone who believes that not all things are eternal, which includes the vast majority of liberal Christians, aren't Christians...

Anyone who believes that those not going to Heaven after death just no longer exist, which is the usual way to avoid the "eternal torture" issue, obviously isn't Christian.

 

Frankly, you've just made sure that maybe a handful of people throughout history might possibly be Christian... but not very likely. Or, you've just made damned sure that the Bible is nothing but a work of fiction, that Christianity is a myth, a fairytale... which is a bit silly, since you think concluding such is wrong.

 

If you're going to try that line on us, make sure you're reading the Bible the right way...

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=19329&hl=

 

Christian is one who follows Christ; Christ is Spirit [Agape - Love] To follow Christ one must live through Spirit, as oppssed to ego.

 

I read just fine, thank you. If you would like to continue to view the bible in an orthodox manner, that is entirely up to you.

[Ouroboros]

That sounds like pantheism. That at least makes more sense than Christianity.

 

Does the Bible (scripture) really say that God is All in All? I'm not sure. I don't remember all the Bible education anymore. Is that in epistles?

 

Yes it does, and it is in Ephesians, and 1 Corinthians

Ah, thanks.

 

 

 

 

Sin is transgressin against all laws that are in place. Not all suffering stem from sin, but suffering is product of sin. When mankind work together for good of humanity, then we will cure disease, and lessen the natural element of suffering caused by it.

So jumping is a transgression since it's an attempt to break the law of gravity?

 

There is a sin that I wish could be removed from this world: religious brainwashing and evangelization. So when will Christians become humble and meek?

 

Another one is religious dogma and religious politics.

 

And yet another one is religious influence on media, schools and work place.

 

There is but one law that fulfill all law, that law is the law which is written in heart- [Agape] Christ is that law, he is the Word, or logos.[Not chocolate] In the beginning was love, love was with God, adn love was god. ALL things were made through love, and without love was not anything made that was made...

Again. Just words.

 

There is a reason for suffering; it is so we might learn from it. Suffering build character, it make us stronger in heart.

Unless it breaks you.

[Ouroboros]

Well, look on the bright side. Jesus can identify with us in every way - in the fact that even his prayers didn't get answered:

 

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

I mentioned it in another thread too. It's quite fascinating. Jesus pray to himself, but he doesn't answer his own prayers, because he has a higher plan for humanity that he wouldn't reveal to himself... Que? No comprendo!

[Grandpa Harley]

Look, asshole, the use of Greek ain't impressing anyone, and now it's getting irritating...

[Mythra]

I read just fine, thank you. If you would like to continue to view the bible in an orthodox manner, that is entirely up to you.

 

Allright, Putz. Why don't you stop - for just one second - and realize who you're addressing in this forum?

 

Do you really think that you are bringing something here that we haven't already heard - AND EXAMINED - a hundred times?

 

Provide some compelling evidence for your assertions.

 

Or, just spew away - like all the other idiots with a claim.

 

But don't be under any illusions that you're making any headway here.

 

Your story is worn out.

[Rhia]

Not condescending, only honest...there is a difference. I doubt also that you could throw me too awful far, I imagine you are a little one. As for me condeming -I am not. I think that you are unwise, there is a difference. Am I any different than you, who think [me] unwise if not [stipid] to believe as truth so called "mythos" [As you say]

 

Lets not ne hypocritical, o.k?

 

You condescending, ("honest") little fucker! You come here, to my site, where I bother no one; and attempt to tell ME that *I'M* a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!! I do not go onto Christian sites to fuck with their heads. In fact, I take this one as a personal shot on a site where I'M SUPPOSED TO BE SAFE! You disgusting little worm - how dare you even come here and post without welcome. And since you claim to have been here for a year, 1, why not tell me - since you claim to "know me"... WHO THE HELL AM I? Did you read my ex-testimony?!

 

I think you're just another asshole, here to get attention when it would otherwise go towards helping to rehabilitate those who actually need us. You just want to be able to go back to your sky-god, and your Christian buddies, and be able to get high-fives and because you "took on" the big, bad Atheists, made them mad, was insulted and "persecuted", but "stood strong in the face of your adversary" - gave them "the light", and left them, as Christ says to do.

 

What? Did your mommy not give you enough affection when you were younger? Did daddy beat you? So you feel you have to come on here and throw your weight around because nothing else makes you feel good or sets you apart in your faith or in your life? Wanna make sure you get some fucking "crown of Righteousness" when you get to your little heaven? You're nothing but a fucking emotional bully, to come on here and be such an asshole, when you were uninvited. YOU - call ME - a HYPOCRITE, when I have done NOTHING to you outside of this site, a site for EX-CHRISTIANS. You were not invited, thusly, you'd do best to leave because you will not be tolerated. These responses you're getting on this thread are not tolerance - they're annoyance.

 

 

FUCK YOU AND I HOPE YOU FUCKING BURST INTO FLAMES!!! (And to quote Gramps - "just exercising my Freedom of Speech!)

[Ouroboros]

Gramps, maybe he meant that Jesus is Agave (just a little misspelling), and then of course The Holy Spirit is Tequila.

[sojourner]

Granpa who wrote that quote about the light? I think it is beautiful.

 

this thread is amazing. Ive really been so challanged and blessed reading it this morning with my coffee.

 

Everyone brought such incredible insights to this thread its really one to be kept and revisited often for me

 

Sojourner

[Kelli]

Believe in Love - Love is the law above all laws. It will lead you to God.

 

What is your definition of love? I mean, it sounds really no different than the Wiccan rede or simply "Live and let live."

 

If that's the case, what's your point to all this? I think everyone here can agree on "Live and Let live."

 

Oh, and if God is everything and everywhere, why do we need to be led there? Aren't we already there, no matter where we are?

[Guest WarrantedPVC]

Jesus pray to himself, but he doesn't answer his own prayers, because he has a higher plan for humanity that he wouldn't reveal to himself... Que? No comprendo!

Haha, that's a very good question, in poignant wording!!

 

PVC

[Ouroboros]

Dude... why is it that we keep getting Christians coming here who insist that other Christians aren't really Christians at all?

 

What I find a continual source of amusement is how christians come here and cut each other off at the knees. How can we take any of them seriously, when they are putting a knife through another christian and their efforts here, in order to promote themselves and their own agenda/personal interpretation. What every christian that comes here does not realilze, is that a christian with similiar or same beliefs has come here before and been cut down by another christian of a different denominational/theological stripe. We don't even need to defeat them, they defeat themselves. All we have to do is sit back, point and laugh. Put 6 christians from different denoms in a room with an atheist, and the atheist doesn't even have to argue, all s/he has to do is wait and pretty soon the christians will defeat themselves by shooting down every point the other christians make.

Yup. The new definition of Christianity: "My Christianity is the right one, but Your Christianity is false, because I know better than You."

 

Which leads to a discussion I was having in another thread. The bible says that a kingdom can not be divided against itself. Which proves that christianity could never be the "kingdom of god" as it claims, because it is continually divided against itself. So why should anyone believe it holds the truth, when "the spirit" doesn't even lead people to interpret the word, the only source on earth we supposedly have to understand god, correctly.

Exactly. Jesus own words declares modern Christianity to be false.

 

And what does that lead to if you use logic?

 

Antichrist. That's what modern Christianity is. It's the anti-version of Christianity and what they say it is. They talk about love, but they show hate. They talk about God's grace, but they're judgmental. They talk about salvation, but most everyone and mostly every Christian will (supposedly) go to Hell. They say they tell the truth, but they lie between their teeth. The only true Christian is the one that doesn't have to proclaim to be one.

[Deva]

God only true attribute is what I believe to be is His essence. [Love] We are not seperated from God, nor have we ever been seperated from God. We are a part of God.

 

OK, - we are a part of God and have NEVER been separated.

 

 

It is ego that givies us a false sense of seperation, it keeps us out of harmonay with God. Sin a a transgression of law which lead to death, and suffering. sin is beneficial, as we learn from suffering. We will eventually die to ego, to live through spirit and in harmony with God.

 

Woops! I spoke too soon. Sin is going to separate us, even if it is in a "false" sense. Come on, make up your mind.

 

And what makes you think we will eventually die to ego -- I assume you mean after many reincarnations -- give us proof that this is happening. Many millions have died - millions have been reincarnated - please look at the state of the world.

 

You can slap the word "Christ" on some concept like "love" or "agape" or whatever else you want it to mean and try to make it stick, but "Jesus Christ" means many things to many people. Just like what Hans said, why don't you call it "Bob" it might be less confusing. It is all just a word game anyway. You don't even play it very well.