Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

I Am A Christian - Any Questions?


1United

Recommended Posts

1United, are you Universalist?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 374
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • 1United

    103

  • Grandpa Harley

    36

  • Ouroboros

    35

  • Deva

    21

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Great. But my point is why keep the name "Christ" while referring to Love?

 

Actually, I agree, except I wouldn't use the word "soul" or "spirit". But I was really discussing your idea that we eventually all die to ego.

 

I agree with this, but I still don't see proof that we eventually die to ego.

 

English word love not adequate to describe Christ - Christ is Love [Agape - Spirit] Christ is purity in essence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc... I am not a fundamentalist, I am not orthodox, I am not lead by the wolves. The only thing I ask of [you] is to come with open mind, and truly wish to understand the position I hold as a Christian. [Follower of Christ] A closed mind is a self created snare, by which we shut ourselves off from further understanding. I will do my best to answer any and all questions you might have about my position as a Christian.

 

Some things to start out with:

 

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

 

2) Satan is not a literal being

 

3) All is eternal

 

4) Death is just another beginning

 

Some things are not so clear in scripture, but they are there just the same. All one must do to see it, is desire truth, and seek harmony with God

 

Take care,

 

1

 

What bullshit! Reasoning with Christians is like reasoning with a brick. There is nothing in the brain department to process the information once you get it.

 

The whole story of Jesus is to reconcile man with god because of what happened at creation. The reconcilliation is based upon the dorky fairytale of how man fell from grace because a girl was given a magical fruit in a magic garden by a talking snake. Prove the story of Eden is true and without error. If it is a myth, then Jesus, gave his life for nothing. Christianity is based upon Jewish fairytales and folklore--can you say MYTHOLOGY? I can pray to a jug of milk and have just as good of results as you praying to Jesus. Prove Genesis then prove jesus.

 

Prove the story of Moses is true and without error and provide the formula the Egytian magicians used to create frogs like Moses did. Then we'll move along to the story of Noah's Ark, Dinosaurs, Jonah and the whale, and then the absurd miracles of Christ and his subsequent nonresurrection. Christians are preverted in their thinking and are contrary to humanity. Christianity is a hate-crime.

dinosaur.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't the "Ego" concept also from Buddhism? You have to get rid of your ego and your desires to reach the higher state of consciousness?

 

And again, I'm in harmony with the world, nature, and hence your God.

 

You are one of the few then - I myself still struggle with ego, hence sin and suffering is still part of my life.

 

 

Part of it is that when you focus too much on sin, sin becomes you more. You have to be able to let go and be calm and at peace with yourself and your existence to really beat your ego. But it also requires complete and total separation from another desire you have, which is search and belief in higher beings. Not until you can release your mind from any kind of religious belief or dogma can you be truly free. Because your religion makes you focus on your sin, instead of focus on the good things. The "demons" and the "dragons" gets their energy from your attention, and as long as you feed them they get stronger and you have less control over them. When you can steer your mind without actively steering it, you're in control.

 

Listen, you want to go to Heaven and you do not want to go to Hell. Correct?

 

Why?

 

Is it because "you" want this and that or because that is the ultimate good for existence?

 

I'd say it's most likely that your Ego is the one driving you to want to avoid Hell and go to Heaven, right? Or it is your Ego that wants to please God in one way or another, or your Ego that wants to obey God and avoid sin. So who is it that wants these things? You, you and you.

 

So in the end, your strive to avoid sin is a sin in itself.

 

Heaven, and hell exist in awareness of mind. I seek harmony - not heaven as orthodox view the term. Hell exist here on earth as well - Hell is state of suffering. I don't seek to understand God, God is beyond my comprehension. It is enough for me to realize that all that exist is God. I don't need to place attribute on God, only know that God in His essence is purity. God consist of mind-spirit-matter, As do we, and this is what bible mean when it says that we aere made in the image of God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You condescending, ("honest") little fucker! You come here, to my site, where I bother no one; and attempt to tell ME that *I'M* a hypocrite!!!!!!!!!!!! I do not go onto Christian sites to fuck with their heads. In fact, I take this one as a personal shot on a site where I'M SUPPOSED TO BE SAFE! You disgusting little worm - how dare you even come here and post without welcome. And since you claim to have been here for a year, 1, why not tell me - since you claim to "know me"... WHO THE HELL AM I? Did you read my ex-testimony?!

 

I think you're just another asshole, here to get attention when it would otherwise go towards helping to rehabilitate those who actually need us. You just want to be able to go back to your sky-god, and your Christian buddies, and be able to get high-fives and because you "took on" the big, bad Atheists, made them mad, was insulted and "persecuted", but "stood strong in the face of your adversary" - gave them "the light", and left them, as Christ says to do.

 

What? Did your mommy not give you enough affection when you were younger? Did daddy beat you? So you feel you have to come on here and throw your weight around because nothing else makes you feel good or sets you apart in your faith or in your life? Wanna make sure you get some fucking "crown of Righteousness" when you get to your little heaven? You're nothing but a fucking emotional bully, to come on here and be such an asshole, when you were uninvited. YOU - call ME - a HYPOCRITE, when I have done NOTHING to you outside of this site, a site for EX-CHRISTIANS. You were not invited, thusly, you'd do best to leave because you will not be tolerated. These responses you're getting on this thread are not tolerance - they're annoyance.

 

 

FUCK YOU AND I HOPE YOU FUCKING BURST INTO FLAMES!!! (And to quote Gramps - "just exercising my Freedom of Speech!)

 

Sorry you feel this way. You actually effected my state of being with this post. You in effect gained power over me for a moment. Is that what you were looking for? I don't mean to insult, but we all deal with ego, and I am not exempt. My view of you being hypocritical stem from ego. it was pride based, and unworthy of my call as Christian. I should not judge, but I did. For that I will appologize.

 

Take care,

 

1

 

You are a sanctimonious little prick too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great. But my point is why keep the name "Christ" while referring to Love?

 

Actually, I agree, except I wouldn't use the word "soul" or "spirit". But I was really discussing your idea that we eventually all die to ego.

 

I agree with this, but I still don't see proof that we eventually die to ego.

 

English word love not adequate to describe Christ - Christ is Love [Agape - Spirit] Christ is purity in essence.

 

I don't understand your view of "Christ". Was he an actual physical person who existed roughly 2000 years ago, or not?

 

If Christ is some ultimate expression of God why have it be "Love" or "Purity" if God is everything and is part of everything? What about all the dirty, nasty things in life?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God is All in All as scripture states. Which is to say that God is everything that exists. You, me, the paint on the wall, the tree in your back yard, etc are all a tiny part of what God is. God is not just matter, He is also all spirit, and all mind. He consists of everything that exixts. [God is All existance]

 

Sir, I'm reading Charles Hodge's Systematic Theology, written about 1870. Hodge was a Presbyterian theologian at Princeton Seminary. He was very well educated for his day, able to read the Bible it the original languages, and able to read philosophy, science, and theology of his day in most European languages. Ancient Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and modern German, French, and English are the languages that show up in his Systematic Theology. In other words, we are talking about a well-read and highly educated man. He spent two years in Europe to get an intimate understanding of the various theological trends. What you describe here he labeled heresy.

 

Hodge lived and breathed the Westminster theology. It is what many of us here were bred and born in. You bring us a message the Bible condemns. THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. You, Sir, make all things god. That is the very thing Moses condemned. I can't think of the passages right now but I am sure the New Testament also condemns your theology about all things being god.

 

That being said, here is my question to you: How did Jesus' death fix things with God so we can go to heaven when we die (if we believe in him)? Exactly what changed when Jesus died? Since God couldn't just forgive us, as an almighty God would if he could, something must have changed when Jesus died. What was that?

 

And when you have answered that question, here's the next one: Since human happiness can be found by simply being true to oneself, and since getting rid of dysfunctional behaviour brings about a good humanity and society, we are left with the conclusion that humans are basicall good deep down if only love can connect with this goodness. What, then, is this sin that Jesus died for and that I need to be forgiven for?

 

So far, no Christian has been able to answer these foundational questions of the Christian religion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HereticZero Reasoning with atheists is the same.

 

For example, how humans were created... You never have the logical explaination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't need to place attribute on God, only know that God in His essence is purity. God consist of mind-spirit-matter, As do we, and this is what bible mean when it says that we aere made in the image of God.

 

Your statement is contradictory. You are placing attributes on God when you say he (I note male gender) is "purity" and consists of "mind-spirit-matter."

 

You have placed a number of attributes on God right in this sentence. How do you "know" these are his attributes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1United, are you Universalist?

 

I hope all will come to live through Spirit, but it doesn't look too promising. I am a [Hopeful] Universalist, I suppose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a meaningless statement and it doesn't address how you know god's specific attributes (which contradict in many ways the attributes others assign him).

 

God is all things. So god is shit. God is evil. God is pain and misery. Some of your god's qualities I can live without.

 

You will continue in the cycle of sin and suffering until you start living through the Spirit, and tame ego. Ego cause pain, and misery [iN] God. God is just the body in which we live.

Suffering exists because Christains keep stirring up resentment with their bullshit testimonies of lying works and wonders. you haven't proven squat that is true and without error concerning your religion. So, how about cycling your ass on out of here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HereticZero Reasoning with atheists is the same.

 

For example, how humans were created... You never have the logical explaination.

 

I've asked you to prove it. What is your version? C'mon snap it up. You should have a rapid-fire response ready if you are going to evangelize, get at it., or piss off. Oh, I'm sorry. You obviously do not know either and don't believe your own bible which makes any argument you have for god MOOT!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HereticZero Reasoning with atheists is the same.

 

For example, how humans were created... You never have the logical explaination.

 

I suppose the stupid illogical shit in the bible is "logical"... Crawl back under your rock retard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michael and Heretic zero: You (and basically atheists) must prove their version, because there are thousands of theories that try to explain creation without God - Evolution, Panspermy and so on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand your view of "Christ". Was he an actual physical person who existed roughly 2000 years ago, or not?

 

If Christ is some ultimate expression of God why have it be "Love" or "Purity" if God is everything and is part of everything? What about all the dirty, nasty things in life?

 

Christ was not physical person - Jesus was physical person Christ is [Holy] Spirit of God. Many parts of God are ugly, yet beneficial - It is His [Holy] Spirit that make us see the good in all things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michael and Heretic zero: You (and basically atheists) must prove their version, because there are thousands of theories that try to explain creation without God - Evolution, Panspermy and so on.

 

You are WRONG. YOU are the one that needs to supply proof.

 

In science it is ALWAYS the asserter that is required to provide proof.

 

If I say I saw a green unicorn, it does not fall on YOU to prove that they don't exisit, it falls on ME to prove they do. This is basic science.

 

You say there is a god and he created everything, the BURDEN OF PROOF falls on YOU not me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand your view of "Christ". Was he an actual physical person who existed roughly 2000 years ago, or not?

 

If Christ is some ultimate expression of God why have it be "Love" or "Purity" if God is everything and is part of everything? What about all the dirty, nasty things in life?

 

Christ was not physical person - Jesus was physical person Christ is [Holy] Spirit of God. Many parts of God are ugly, yet beneficial - It is His [Holy] Spirit that make us see the good in all things.

 

So at what point was Jesus associated with "Christ" and how?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand your view of "Christ". Was he an actual physical person who existed roughly 2000 years ago, or not?

 

If Christ is some ultimate expression of God why have it be "Love" or "Purity" if God is everything and is part of everything? What about all the dirty, nasty things in life?

 

Christ was not physical person - Jesus was physical person Christ is [Holy] Spirit of God. Many parts of God are ugly, yet beneficial - It is His [Holy] Spirit that make us see the good in all things.

 

 

yeah? Where's your proof? Remember, YOU are the asserter here, prove it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.. text ...

...then what is Dark-Matter and Dark Energy?

Spatz

Christianity is not the source of all knowledge and wisdom- it is but a tool to help us find harmony with God. God is source of all knowledge, and wisdom, as God is all knowledge, and all wisdom. The Spirit lead us into harmony with God, the Spirit lead us into Gods truth.

 

Well, if it "is not the source of all knowledge and wisdom", then it's not going to be any good in finding god, or anything else for that matter.

 

Also, since extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, you'll have to show that "god/s" and "spirit/s" exist in the first place before you make any claims about their supposed knowledge and wisodm (if that is any good at all too).

 

Not much good are you? Just came here and said something that all of us here have heard thousands of time before.

 

Spatz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sir, I'm reading Charles Hodge's Systematic Theology, written about 1870. Hodge was a Presbyterian theologian at Princeton Seminary. He was very well educated for his day, able to read the Bible it the original languages, and able to read philosophy, science, and theology of his day in most European languages. Ancient Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and modern German, French, and English are the languages that show up in his Systematic Theology. In other words, we are talking about a well-read and highly educated man. He spent two years in Europe to get an intimate understanding of the various theological trends. What you describe here he labeled heresy.

 

Hodge lived and breathed the Westminster theology. It is what many of us here were bred and born in. You bring us a message the Bible condemns. THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. You, Sir, make all things god. That is the very thing Moses condemned. I can't think of the passages right now but I am sure the New Testament also condemns your theology about all things being god.

 

That being said, here is my question to you: How did Jesus' death fix things with God so we can go to heaven when we die (if we believe in him)? Exactly what changed when Jesus died? Since God couldn't just forgive us, as an almighty God would if he could, something must have changed when Jesus died. What was that?

 

And when you have answered that question, here's the next one: Since human happiness can be found by simply being true to oneself, and since getting rid of dysfunctional behaviour brings about a good humanity and society, we are left with the conclusion that humans are basicall good deep down if only love can connect with this goodness. What, then, is this sin that Jesus died for and that I need to be forgiven for?

 

So far, no Christian has been able to answer these foundational questions of the Christian religion.

 

Yes, I am a heretic by traditional standards, lol. Is this suppose to make me change my view? I disagree with orthodoxy, and I [know] without a doubt that God is ALL in All ... just like scripture states.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michael and Heretic zero: You (and basically atheists) must prove their version, because there are thousands of theories that try to explain creation without God - Evolution, Panspermy and so on.

 

You are WRONG. YOU are the one that needs to supply proof.

 

In science it is ALWAYS the asserter that is required to provide proof.

 

If I say I saw a green unicorn, it does not fall on YOU to prove that they don't exisit, it falls on ME to prove they do. This is basic science.

 

You say there is a god and he created everything, the BURDEN OF PROOF falls on YOU not me.

 

Really? Did science explain what before Big Bang was? Or you just accept as a fact that the Big Bang and some great catastrophic explosion from the middle of Nowhere created the time and matter and it started to self-organize. For the sake of Jesus grow up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your statement is contradictory. You are placing attributes on God when you say he (I note male gender) is "purity" and consists of "mind-spirit-matter."

 

You have placed a number of attributes on God right in this sentence. How do you "know" these are his attributes?

 

All things are pure - All is God. Not all things are pleasant, but all things are pure. God consists of All things, and all things are part of God. Mind - Spirit - Matter, all of which make up existance.

 

Ego cause suffering [in] God, but this is good for development of mankind. All is pure! [God is All]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not forgive sin, lead us away from sin through His spirit. We are only forgiven, in as much as we are able to forgive ourselves. Jesus does not reconcile us to god; it is the Spirit that produces harmony. Christ is the Spirit than indwelt in the man Jesus; Christ is what reconciles not the man Jesus.

 

He was that Spirit manifest in flesh. Meaning, the full measure of God essence was fully within Jesus the man. We are in the image of God - We are God's Children also, only we have ego, and Jesus did not. Living through ego is what makes us come to break law, and suffer. Jesus was God Spirit manifest in Flesh. He was God's [only] begotten son. He was born of this Spirit whereas we can only recieve it in heart.

 

Jesus was flesh and bone, He was going to die anyway. There is no significance in the dying. The significance is what happened after. As for forgiveness, if He had not died, and rose, and ascended, then His Spirit would not be available to us, [This is my understanding]

 

We can not all be born of the Spirit, as we have all inherited ego. Jesus, had no ego. Spirit is what conquers sin, [spirit is Christ] Jesus was a good steward of the Spirit, and He followed it even to death. He [Jesus] gave up His spirit so that we might recieve it. [if that makes sense] God is not so personal, but He is all loving.

 

 

I think I finally understand what you believe and what you are saying.

 

You are saying that God poured out his spirit on the human race. He did this by creating a perfect, sinless man who was filled with God's spirit.

 

The crucifixion is not really important, all that stuff about sacrifice to pay for the sins of human race is human misunderstandings and nonsense. But the resurrection is what was important - because this resurrection allowed God's spirit to come to all of Jesus' followers and give them eternal life.

 

Is this what you believe/are saying?

 

You keep saying that ego causes the illusion of separation - and this causes suffering. So I imagine that all this Holy Spirit saving us from sin is also about dying to our egos so that we might feel that connection to the divine again.

 

There's something very similar to Advaita Vedanta in all of this. Are you familiar with the Upanishads or with Advaita Vedanta philosophy in Hinduism? You seem to be saying something very similar - but with a special focus on Jesus as saviour, a kind of Buddha figure who can help us overcome ego and so banish all suffering.

 

It's very interesting. I like syncretic belief systems (combinations of religions) and two of my favourite religions are hinduism and buddhism.

 

But I do think you need a slight reality check. You seem to be running away with yourself and creating your own wild theories. You sound like someone high on acid (and I should know - I used to do that stuff)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So at what point was Jesus associated with "Christ" and how?

 

Jesus always contained Christ within Him, but like us, He also grew in that Spirit. He never sinned, but He grew in understanding through the spirit He possessed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's something very similar to Advaita Vedanta in all of this. Are you familiar with the Upanishads or with Advaita Vedanta philosophy in Hinduism? You seem to be saying something very similar - but with a special focus on Jesus as saviour, a kind of Buddha figure who can help us overcome ego and so banish all suffering.

 

It's very interesting. I like syncretic belief systems (combinations of religions) and two of my favourite religions are hinduism and buddhism.

 

I agree with Evolution Beyond. That is why it is interesting and that is why I am questioning 1 so closely. Unfortunately as you have observed, it seems like he/she is on drugs. It does not hang together coherently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.