The Truth Will Set You Free

[1oddmanout]

I ask a question I asked in youth Church service, SO many eons ago: "love" as a verb or a noun?

[trashy]

I want to clear a couple of mis-conceptions you have about my views. First, I don't view 'Jesus' as love. I view what he had in Him was Love. The thing in Him, which I call Love is called Christ - Jesus wasn't Christ, but Jesus had Christ. Christ is not a person - Christ is the Spirit of Love.

 

 

James,

 

Would you, by any chance, be a follower of the teachings of Religious Science International?

[crazy-tiger]

God is not an individual. Only in Humans can the planes that make up god merge. [spirit - mind - matter]

New-Age woowoo...

 

You don't happen to like crystals, do you?

The world has not changed since Jesus because orthodox Christianity has perverted the truth, and have lead millions astray.

That would have been a world change...

Mankind is a stubborn breed - we are prideful, and rebellious

I beg to differ... I've seen enough of Mankind to know that you're insulting the majority of it.

 

Stubborn yes... but prideful and rebelious? Not really...

If you believe nothing I have said - Please try to believe in, and live through the Spirit of Love

New-Age woowoo again... seriously, why should I try to live through what is only true for you? That would be denying God and glorifying you!

[it will change your life, and the life of your children]

You have no idea what my life is like, so don't start telling me what I need to do...

 

Oh, and I have no kids so how the fuck will it change their lives?

This world belongs to us, and it is up to us to change it for future generations. Only through Love can we make it happen.

Wait... why do I get the idea that you're talking about Spiritual Borg here?

[crazy-tiger]

I want to clear a couple of mis-conceptions you have about my views. First, I don't view 'Jesus' as love. I view what he had in Him was Love. The thing in Him, which I call Love is called Christ - Jesus wasn't Christ, but Jesus had Christ. Christ is not a person - Christ is the Spirit of Love.

 

 

James,

 

Would you, by any chance, be a follower of the teachings of Religious Science International?

Going by the sheer amount of typing he's done, I figure he's a follower of RSI...

 

 

 

Sorry... I'm still working on my first coffee.

[1United]

1United....

 

Lemme give you a little clue...

 

If you just want to come here for friendly talk and NOT to convert or piss everyone off, I suggest a few things.

 

Don't pass off your beliefs as ultimate truth. I think everyone would be willing to accept your weird brand of whatever-it-is you believe if you would stop saying things like "I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc... " What kind of response did you figure you were going to get with that? If you've been supposedly lurking here for so long as you claim to have been, it would seem you would know what kind... By accept, I mean not hassle you about it. I don't mean that you'll convince or convert anyone.

 

If you notice, I posted a note about the differences between my beliefs and the beliefs of Christians like you. My beliefs are a bit on the odd side, but they work for me. I don't really talk about them here. I feel no need to. I am not out to convert anyone to my beliefs. My beliefs are most likely a load of shit, really, but again they work for me and I'm NOT hurting anyone with them so who gives a crap? You notice that I'm a mod here. I had even weirder beliefs when I was given this mod position. Why was I welcomed so? Because I didn't preach my brand of theism or try to pass it off as ultimate truth. I know it's not ultimate truth. I have even posted lengthy posts in the past about some of the crazy shit that I believed earlier as an ex-Christian, and no one hassled me because I made it clear that my beliefs were personal to me and I wasn't trying to convince anyone else that they were truth.

 

So all that said, no one, and I mean no one, is going to buy into what you are preaching. Those of us who have been here awhile have each found our own paths as ex-Christians and those that are still in the early stages of deconversion are likely repulsed by the sound of your new-fangled cultish love-doctrine. So give it up, man. No one really gives a damn about your beliefs, but don't be offended, because no one really gives a damn about mine either. If you want to stay here and not be blasted and ridiculed, stop your bullshit preaching and listen for awhile. You might learn something.

 

Kelli

 

I'll take your advice into consideration. I realize that we all have different views, kelli. I also realize that mine are not like your own. [We are all different] That is what makes life interesting. I would like to add that I never, not once insisted, or even attempted to get anyone here to view things my way, only to consider living through love. Sure, I answered questions, and gave my understanding, but never once did I ridicule, or suggest that any of you were wrong - only unwise to reject Christianity altogether. I for one believe that there are elements of truth to be found everywhere. From Homers Odyssy to Anton Levay's Satanic Bible. [That is my reality]

 

I will give my opinions when I am asked to give them, and I will comment on statements, and the like. I will however stop preaching, and relax a little, cool?

 

James

[1United]

I ask a question I asked in youth Church service, SO many eons ago: "love" as a verb or a noun?

 

I think maybe both...

[1United]

Would you, by any chance, be a follower of the teachings of Religious Science International?

 

Actually no, I am not - Never even heard of them, but I WILL check them out now. I enjoy contemplating different views.

 

James

[1United]

CT, I quite preaching early this morning, so give it a rest will you? If you are interested, I will certainly oblige, but not to condescending digs at my beliefs. This thread was for the couple of people whos questions I was unable to answer. It wasn't meant to be a discussion, or another dogpile...

 

James

[Vigile]

I understand...

 

I was bored today - my son is at his mothers house, and I had nothing to do. I chose to spend my day with you guys. I have been coming on quite strongly, I have made many posts today, I was lonely and needed to express myself, and this seemed like a good place to do so. I thought my un-orthodox views might make you see that I too am ex-[orthodox] Christian. I didn't want sympathy, I wanted to talk... [i wanted some company]

 

Take care,

 

James

 

James, just a little unsolicited advice. We will be happy to talk with you and I'm sure you can find some common ground with us and even make a few friends here. A few other unorthodox xians have done so.

 

The reason you are getting a harsh reaction is due to the fact that you are offering your brand of the Truth™. You come acrossed as preachy. Tone down the proselytizing a bit and you will find people here to be much more accomodating and the discussions with you much less abrasive.

 

Peace.

[Kelli]

I'll take your advice into consideration.

 

That'd likely be wise if you want to stay here and achieve at least some level of respect...

 

I realize that we all have different views, kelli. I also realize that mine are not like your own. [We are all different] That is what makes life interesting.

 

Sure do...

 

 

I would like to add that I never, not once insisted, or even attempted to get anyone here to view things my way, only to consider living through love.

 

Sure, I answered questions, and gave my understanding, but never once did I ridicule, or suggest that any of you were wrong - only unwise to reject Christianity altogether.

 

Wait, wait, wait... See, you just contradicted yourself. In the first sentence you said "or even attempted to get anyone here to view things my way" and then you turned around and said "...only unwise to reject Christianity altogether."

 

You do realize that your second statement is an attempt to convince us that you're right. It also implies that you think you have ultimate truth. You need to really think about what you're saying because at the very best you just confuse people. At the very worst you are just a liar. The jury is still out on which way the scale is tipped. To be perfectly honest, I'm leaning toward liar, but that's just me.

 

I for one believe that there are elements of truth to be found everywhere. From Homers Odyssy to Anton Levay's Satanic Bible. [That is my reality]

 

No argument there... The key word though is elements.

 

I will give my opinions when I am asked to give them, and I will comment on statements, and the like. I will however stop preaching, and relax a little, cool?

 

Hey, you can continue to preach if you want to. Doesn't really bother me. All I'm saying is that if you stuff a sock in the preaching and stop, look, and listen, you will likely get what you came here for if you simply came here for friendly talk as you say you did. If you don't, you'll likely won't be here long because no one likes to be in a place where they don't feel welcome.

[1United]

kelli, what I mean by being unwise is that [i think] there is an element of truth in Christian dogma that can be beneficial, but not ultimate truth. I don't have ultimate truth, nor does anyone else. All we have is our own understanding. I view my understanding to be true, but not ultimate truth. [if that makes sense]

 

I'm not trying to force my views on anyone. I did however, want express them...

 

 

James

[Guest WarrantedPVC]

kelli, what I mean by being unwise is that [i think] there is an element of truth in Christian dogma that can be beneficial, but not ultimate truth.

James, here's a secret... There is an element of truth in leaving Christianity behind, too.

 

And the wisest thing to do is to leave Christianity when you realize what that truth is.

 

PVC

[crazy-tiger]

CT, I quite preaching early this morning, so give it a rest will you? If you are interested, I will certainly oblige, but not to condescending digs at my beliefs. This thread was for the couple of people whos questions I was unable to answer. It wasn't meant to be a discussion, or another dogpile...

 

James

Given your antics last night, and the way you've come of again in the op, don't be too fucking surprised when you get a response like mine.

 

Just because you've stopped preaching now, doesn't mean we can't reply to the preaching that was done earlier. If you don't like it, then you shouldn't have preached at all.

 

Just beacause you meant this to be for just a couple of people doean't mean the rest of us have to butt out... this is a free-for-all part of the forum, so if we want to reply, we fucking will!

 

Oh, and they weren't condescending digs... they were my observations on your beliefs.

 

 

 

By the way... since you stated you'd stop preaching after my post, how was I to know you're stopped preaching? Or was it a case you'd decided to stop preaching but didn't mention it and I'm expected to be able to read minds?

[Kelli]

kelli, what I mean by being unwise is that [i think] there is an element of truth in Christian dogma that can be beneficial, but not ultimate truth. I don't have ultimate truth, nor does anyone else. All we have is our own understanding. I view my understanding to be true, but not ultimate truth. [if that makes sense]

 

Well, now you're really backpeddling. Consider the title of your OP: "I Am A Christian - Any Questions?, I thought I might reveal my self as, and offer explanations"

 

That was the title of your OP, and now you are saying "[i think] there is an element of truth in Christian dogma that can be beneficial, but not ultimate truth."

 

So are you a Christian, or do you believe that Christianity by and large is dogma? Which is it?

 

 

I'm not trying to force my views on anyone. I did however, want express them...

(emphasis mine)

 

Ah, the infamous guilt trip. Try to make us XC's feel bad because we didn't let the poor little persecuted Christian "express his views." Sorry, not gonna work. Not on this girl.

[1United]

Given your antics last night, and the way you've come of again in the op, don't be too fucking surprised when you get a response like mine.

 

Just because you've stopped preaching now, doesn't mean we can't reply to the preaching that was done earlier. If you don't like it, then you shouldn't have preached at all.

 

Just beacause you meant this to be for just a couple of people doean't mean the rest of us have to butt out... this is a free-for-all part of the forum, so if we want to reply, we fucking will!

 

Oh, and they weren't condescending digs... they were my observations on your beliefs.

 

 

 

By the way... since you stated you'd stop preaching after my post, how was I to know you're stopped preaching? Or was it a case you'd decided to stop preaching but didn't mention it and I'm expected to be able to read minds?

 

I'm not surprised by anything from you CT. I have been witness to your demeanor for over a year now, and I've seen enough to know what you are made of. [You speak your mind in a no holds bar fasion] I expected it, and you provided.

 

My observations are not always accurate, so if you comment was not a condescending dig at my belief then I will appologize for thinking such.

 

 

James

[Mythra]

When I was just a kid, (11-12 yrs old) my family attended the Church of Religious Science. And 1United's stance would fit in well there.

 

Their theme song (at that time) was "Let There Be Peace on Earth - and Let It Begin With Me".

 

Not a bad sentiment, given the state of today's world.

 

Their church is based on the Ernest Holmes "Science of Mind" book. http://www.religiousscience.org/xindex02.html

 

1United: your idea of Jesus and Christ being independent entities is a very old idea. It's called Separationalism, and was one of the early christian concepts that were deemed heretical by the proto-orthodox community in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

[1United]

kelli, what I mean by being unwise is that [i think] there is an element of truth in Christian dogma that can be beneficial, but not ultimate truth. I don't have ultimate truth, nor does anyone else. All we have is our own understanding. I view my understanding to be true, but not ultimate truth. [if that makes sense]

 

Well, now you're really backpeddling. Consider the title of your OP: "I Am A Christian - Any Questions?, I thought I might reveal my self as, and offer explanations"

 

That was the title of your OP, and now you are saying "[i think] there is an element of truth in Christian dogma that can be beneficial, but not ultimate truth."

 

So are you a Christian, or do you believe that Christianity by and large is dogma? Which is it?

 

 

I'm not trying to force my views on anyone. I did however, want express them...

(emphasis mine)

 

Ah, the infamous guilt trip. Try to make us XC's feel bad because we didn't let the poor little persecuted Christian "express his views." Sorry, not gonna work. Not on this girl.

 

No guilt trip, I have not been offended. [well, for a moment I was, but it quickly passed] You have no reason to feel guilty. Yes, I still think you unwise, but that is just my honest assesment of closing oneself from seeing beyond what the church wanted you to see. [Regarding Christian Dogma] Im a right? maybe, maybe not, but I am at least honest in what i say.

 

Yes, I am a christian [un-Orthodox] I believe in what I view to be Christ. There is no backpeddling, nor contradiction in the statements made above.

 

James

[Grandpa Harley]

I readily confess, my dislike of religious types arriving here to spread there poison is more along the lines of the distaste one has for a cobra in a nursery school... but unlike the cobra, the prosletysing Christian has control over its nature and so I have less compassion for them than I would an out of place venomous snake or large scorpion...

 

I have patience and support for the people leaving the cult. Virtually none for those who want to reassert its hold on those here...

 

 

Gramps I hope you don't hate me for saying so, but this is the most loving thing I've seen in a long time.

 

[Kelli]

You have no reason to feel guilty.

 

Damn straight.

 

Yes, I still think you unwise, but that is just my honest assesment of closing oneself from seeing beyond what the church wanted you to see.

 

Do you think we never explored other religions or versions of Christianity? I could say I think you're unwise for biting into any part of Christianity...

 

[Regarding Christian Dogma] Im a right? maybe, maybe not, but I am at least honest in what i say.

 

Honest? I'm not so sure about that...

 

Yes, I am a christian [un-Orthodox] I believe in what I view to be Christ. There is no backpeddling, nor contradiction in the statements made above.

 

Well, good for you. Glad it works for you.

[1United]

When I was just a kid, (11-12 yrs old) my family attended the Church of Religious Science. And 1United's stance would fit in well there.

 

Their theme song (at that time) was "Let There Be Peace on Earth - and Let It Begin With Me".

 

Not a bad sentiment, given the state of today's world.

 

Their church is based on the Ernest Holmes "Science of Mind" book. http://www.religiousscience.org/xindex02.html

 

1United: your idea of Jesus and Christ being independent entities is a very old idea. It's called Separationalism, and was one of the early christian concepts that were deemed heretical by the proto-orthodox community in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

 

Thanks for the link...

 

 

James

[Mythra]

By the way, 1United - I agree totally with the title of this thread:

 

The Truth Will Set You Free.

 

It certainly did me - once I finally arrived at the truth - almost 3 years ago.

 

And the truth is this: That all religions are man-made : the product of human imagination and ingenuity.

 

Free indeed.

[1United]

Why Am I rejected as a person? [i am despised] Do you identify belief with who one is? I am human, just like you are

 

1U, Get off the cross, someone needs the wood.

 

I am on the cross only in as much as [the cross] is part of daily suffering. Nothing that has happened on these boards signifies anything of the like.

 

Clever, tho...

[1United]

By the way, 1United - I agree totally with the title of this thread:

 

The Truth Will Set You Free.

 

It certainly did me - once I finally arrived at the truth - almost 3 years ago.

 

And the truth is this: That all religions are man-made : the product of human imagination and ingenuity.

 

Free indeed.

 

Yes, all religion is man made. [We are a creative bunch also]

[SWIM]

1United -

 

If GOD were love (if there was a god) it would be reflected in what he created. It would show traits of the creator.

 

Look at the world of living things.:

 

Fire ants engulfing children, dogs, cattle and horses too sometimes

Tiny spiders and frogs with enough venom to kill people 10 times over

Venomous snake species in the 1000s

Animals hunting and killing other animals not JUST for food but for territory or pure entertainment

 

Look at humans:

 

Wars upon wars as far back as history shows us.

Torture rape and unspeakable horrors.

 

If WE look at creation as some sort of indicator of the mindset of god, it makes bible god look normal, cruel hateful and full of revenge and jealousy (I am a jealous god blah blah blah).

 

All evidence shows that if there is a bible god, it most certainly is *NOT* composed of *LOVE* at all, but more so rather like hate.

 

God is most certainly NOT love even in the context of your religion. It is not loving to separate mankind into different religions. It would show more love and compassion to UNITE all religions. Hey, your GAWD can do this right? Why send multiple "signals" to mankind? Why *LET* other religions flourish if only one of them is right? And if they ALL are right to a certain degree, why not "say" that too in the buybull you hold dear?

 

Love is an EMOTION, and you said nothing to prove it otherwise, not even a good theory, let alone proof. It is more like a strong feeling of empathy and compassion for someone within your life. Or if you are a broad thinker, love for humanity is a strong feeling of unity, that we all struggle and need each other. It is NOT some mystical spiritual force or power, it is not god, it is a strong emotion, nothing more, nothing less.

Good and evil are also concepts. All things in reality, simply *are*. They are neither good or bad, but an end result of cause and effect. Most "evil" people can be explained. Mental illness, poor circumstances growing up (also mental) and situations and input from others leading to a meltdown (also mental). There are also many more examples of why good and evil are merely concepts.

 

Look at nature if you don't believe me. Define "good and evil" bees, monkeys, bears, dogs, cats oh how bout trees, and grass? Are *any* of them evil? Or does the personality of a human, as well as the human's actions make them good or bad?

 

In reality these things are real:

 

1. There is NO darkness, darkness is a natural state, it is the absence of light. Light is created from a power source, seeing the photons of light let us perceive that it is there. Pure darkness is natural.

 

2. There is no such thing as quiet. Just an absence of sound. Sound is vibrations on the ear. Quiet is the natural state of things.

 

3. There is no such thing as COLD. Cold is merely the absence of heat. Heat is excited molecules, absolute zero is natural temp.

 

4. There is no such thing as good or evil, there is only our perception of the value of activity, depending on the activity (thought, lack of, doing violence, enabling violence etc).

 

In *infinity* where space is truly endless, there are large expanses of NOTHING. Nothing is the *normal* state of space. No light, cold, heat, time OR good or evil.

 

So you see, god cannot be love, because love is a byproduct of interaction and is not the normal state of things, and evil, or *hate* is normally a sign of dis-repair or illness, or a mis-interpretation of events.

 

If there is no Good or Evil, then there is no *need* for a balance of these two like you hear so much, there is not a SATAN because there is a GOD which so many people believe, it is more likely and natural that NEITHER exist.

 

You want the truth to set you free like the title of this thread implies?

 

Then why not start talking about "truth" instead of delusion?

[Kelli]

I am on the cross only in as much as [the cross] is part of daily suffering.

 

Daily suffering? How so?