GraphicsGuy Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I'd rather give them every opportunity to begin to question. In my rather short experience as an ex-xian the most common thing I get from Xians is the assumption that I was never saved in the first place. Outright angering that is. I watched other ex-xians try to reason with them and got completely ignored. They only pay attention when you get pissed off because it kind of shocks them back into reality, but then they tend to get all huffy, back-pedaling really quick, yet never apologize (passive-agressive apologies don't count). I e-mail a couple of xians that I met online regularly and I am very kind to them. They realize we are all on a journey of sorts and perhaps mine is just taking a different twist than theirs. They don't preach at me in the slightest...I probably quote scripture more than they do at times. They treat me as an equal and that is what I value most. Sorry for the long explanation, but due to what I've experienced in the last 6-7 months Xians assume they know the answers first and never bother asking questions because most of them don't give a shit about our feelings and tend to treat us as second-rate human beings because they believe we are evil incarnate. There are acceptions to the rule, but it's been rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 despise the likes of Kratos and 1United? And the likes of Kratos and 1United are fun entertainment. Why do you despise Krato, and myself? Are we too far from what you once were? Do we threaten you in some way? I can only speak for myself, but I mean no harm - I'm not trying to "convert", but to plant the seeds of Spirit. [You will do with it what you will] James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I'm not trying to "convert", but to plant the seeds of Spirit. And the difference is???????????????? You're trying to get us to accept your new version of Xianity that you've had some amazing "revelation" about. Been there. Done that. We've had our fill of "stupid" seeds. You're tossing them on hard and stony ground that's had enough of religious bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknowing1 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I voted other. I have no problems with anyone, christian or non christian participating. I really don't mind them being here because it does provide me with insight on other people's thought processes. Frankly I expect that anything I might post could be called into question. I realize though that my opinions and thoughts might be off because I have missed a key element in forming that opinion and if I am off in my thinking appreciate being told the "why's" that I am off. However, that all being said I do not appreciate how some Christians have come on board and demanded to be treated special and are quite arrogant about it. BTW 1United, that Spirits seed died a long time ago for me and unless you've got another Spirit's seed to plant it ain't gonna grow so you are really wasting your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldApostate Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Sorry for the long explanation, but due to what I've experienced in the last 6-7 months Xians assume they know the answers first and never bother asking questions because most of them don't give a shit about our feelings and tend to treat us as second-rate human beings because they believe we are evil incarnate. Well, my expectations aren't particularly high or anything. I don't expect their eyes to suddenly be opened or anything like that. I just know that for me, over time, a pattern of unanswerable questions began to emerge. I'm also not saying that I don't think most Christians act like total jerks. In fact, I sort of expect it. I think that the doctrine encourages arrogance, uncivility, and irresponsibility. I just don't think that they know any better. I'd be a lot less sympathetic if I hadn't been there myself. It's mortifying actually, to imagine that I might have been that way, but I know that I was a self-righteous asshole. My only defense is that I was acting in accordance with the belief system that I had been taught to regard as the truth my entire life. I allow others that same defense. I guess that I perceive them as victims in the same way that I regard myself as having been a victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 And the difference is???????????????? You're trying to get us to accept your new version of Xianity that you've had some amazing "revelation" about. Been there. Done that. We've had our fill of "stupid" seeds. You're tossing them on hard and stony ground that's had enough of religious bullshit. Stoney ground represents no heart, cold heart, dull heart, but you have heart; you understand love unconditional. I know because you told me in other thread. The difference is I want love to increase in world. My version of Christianity is not new, btw. There hasn't been an original thought since the 1500's, or even before. We keep rehashing old ideas over and over and over, etc. I don't want you to believe in my beliefs, only want you to love unconditional. [That is very big want, tho] James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 BTW 1United, that Spirits seed died a long time ago for me and unless you've got another Spirit's seed to plant it ain't gonna grow so you are really wasting your time. I see.. I'm of the mind that this Spirit can never truly die, only seem like it is missing, gone, dead, etc. You have love for your peers in this forum, and they have love for you. Is the seed truly dead, then? Could it be that the seed is just limited to those whom are like you, and to those whom you have emotion for? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Why do you despise Krato, and myself? Kratos is a sexist ass with violence issues, you are a newagey christian fortune cookie. Are we too far from what you once were? Um, yes. Even when I was a christian, I was never anything like either of you. Do we threaten you in some way? You are a threat to human growth. So long as people like you try to go back to the goode olde days of sexism, and persecution based on religion, not to mention trying to get your BS taught in schools. You cannot threaten me personally as I've grown way beyond your ilk, but to remain silent when you express views I disagree with implies I respect your opinion enough to let is stand uncontested, which I don't. I'm not trying to "convert", but to plant the seeds of Spirit. As someone else aready mentioned, I see no difference. I'm not interested in your seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Kratos is a sexist ass with violence issues, you are a newagey christian fortune cookie. Fortune cookie? I am what I am, and I believe what I believe. You belive things differently, and that is o.k. It is our differences that make life interesting. [imo] Um, yes. Even when I was a christian, I was never anything like either of you. So you despise me because I am different? You are a threat to human growth. So long as people like you try to go back to the goode olde days of sexism, and persecution based on religion, not to mention trying to get your BS taught in schools. You cannot threaten me personally as I've grown way beyond your ilk, but to remain silent when you express views I disagree with implies I respect your opinion enough to let is stand uncontested, which I don't. I see.. I am not sexist, nor do I wish to have bible class in school. I don't persecute, nor do I feel persecuted. I want love to increase on earth, so that man can be the kings we were meant to become. We are falling fast, and we will kill ourselves off VERY soon if we do not change from the violent, egotistical, prideful, and angry people that we have become. As someone else aready mentioned, I see no difference. I'm not interested in your seeds. Then let them wither away... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 It seems to me that would be the best thing so those of us whom come here would grasp right off we are not welcome nor wanted in the least? sojourner If it helps, I don't even think of you as Christian in the usual sense. When someone says 'christian' I think of someone with views very different to yours. You have crossed the line from being 'tolerated' to being 'welcome' in my opinion. When I ticked boxes of 'allowed to come but get unpleasant treatment', 'tolerated but not welcome' etc - I was thinking of those other christians, not you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Do we threaten you in some way? Yes, in a certain sense, anyway. Some of the folks here were raked over pretty badly by nasty xian dogma they accepted in good faith. Some, not all, came from religious church and home backgrounds that can only be described as abusive. Many did not, but at some point in time, they put their brain in gear and got tired (rightfully so) of having ridiculous nonsense shoveled their way. Now how healthy is it to escape an abusive situation only to be invaded by more supporters of the abusers returning to continue to take pot shots at you? Well, that plus WR's broader point: you're a threat to human growth. Nevertheless, you clowns are pretty harmless here. As folks have said here and there, you can't go back to believing in the tooth fairy, so one threat you and your fellow xians do not pose is re-converting us, do doubt much to your own dismay. And then, when called for, Skip does a damn fine job of "hauling the boss's garbage" along the lines of something he might say. Despite all this, you and your ilk also serve a purpose here: you provide an opportunity for the members to confront purveyors of nonsense. It's an opportunity one might not have in "real" off-line life. And it's useful. Yes it gets heated, VERY heated, but time after time the apologists that step up to the plate are blown away by the weakness of their own arguments--arguments which they cannot even begin to defend. This aspect, hands on debates blowing down xians' houses of cards, is not only not threatening, but therapeutic. I am a long term apostate. I never heard of this site or anything like it until just over a year ago. What actually took me off guard about this site and surprised me at first was the lameness and lack of good effort from the xians that came. I expected that as weak as the arguments might be, most, or at least many xian visitors would not fold so easily, but rather go down struggling to defend their positions, wild hustling to address the many holes being shot into their sinking ship. I thought they might control themselves better than they do before running off in a huff, because, well, that is supposedly their mission from god. They take their delusion very seriously, I reasoned, and they think that their god has commanded them to convert the hellbound masses. No. Not only do they not give GOOD answers, they usually summarily ignore most of the tough questions directed at them, while sticking to the flimsiest of answers for the stuff they do address--not the way to persuade this crowd of anything, I daresay. Even for lurking ex-c's, I think that actually seeing this type of argument played out time after time right in front of their eyes is helpful in really driving home the point that xianity is a fear based religion that plays on emotions with no underlying substance that merely serves to control and spreads by brainwashing with constant immersion. As for: I'm not trying to "convert", but to plant the seeds of Spirit. Gimme a break! "Planting the seeds of Spirit" is an act of attempted persuasion, with the hopeful outcome of eventually leading to our re-conversions. This is something that you purposefully sought US out to do. It's pathetic to try to pull off such unmitigated baloney on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 @GG - TBH, it was her mate Kratos who caused the storm... something to do with my saying 'poo' while there were ladies on the planet... Sojourner, are you married to Kratos? If so, I can better understand your position. Not that things will change but at least I'll understand why you took offense at something that was not directed at you. I think she's offended because she tried to post some things in the other threads that I believe were sincere but others took potshots at. I think she believes we are lumping her in with the twit-Christians, and that may be the case in the minds of some. Kel, can you really say that someone who uses the phrase 'Martyrs for Christ' and means it is all there? The subtext to that turn of phrase is the same as use any means necessary... If she feels like that, I personally don't give a rat's ass about 'finer feelings'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Gimme a break! "Planting the seeds of Spirit" is an act of attempted persuasion, with the hopeful outcome of eventually leading to our re-conversions. This is something that you purposefully sought US out to do. It's pathetic to try to pull off such unmitigated baloney on us. We all plant seeds ShackledNoMore. Every word, deed, and thought to fingertip is a seed. We all plant them. You are wrong to say that I am trying to convert any one back to Christianity. I myself view Orthodox Christianity to be grossly lacking, and decietful, controling, and wolvish. I believe that the many paths [can] all lead back to the source, tho. I wish to plant seeds of love [To put it plainly] and to help show importance thereof. My ideology gets in the way, however. Obviously James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Sojourner... I don't think you deserve the mistreatment on here you get from what I have read.. Just thought I'd let you know that. Keep posting and use the ignore function. Pan, the key there is 'what you have read'... there's been some other stuff that has come to light that casts the lady in a very different role, and from an unlikely source that would have no interest in discrediting a 'good apostle'... I was playing nice, I now no longer see a reason to... sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WarrantedPVC Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Kel, can you really say that someone who uses the phrase 'Martyrs for Christ' and means it is all there? The subtext to that turn of phrase is the same as use any means necessary... If she feels like that, I personally don't give a rat's ass about 'finer feelings'... In my experience, soj has been having a generally positive attitude to things - she tries to appreciate people's posts and learn from them in her own way, no matter who they're coming from. I also haven't experienced her preaching. This makes her very different from the average Christian, and I think she looks like she's a sweet person, and judging by her posts so far, I like her. PVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Gimme a break! "Planting the seeds of Spirit" is an act of attempted persuasion, with the hopeful outcome of eventually leading to our re-conversions. This is something that you purposefully sought US out to do. It's pathetic to try to pull off such unmitigated baloney on us. We all plant seeds ShackledNoMore. Every word, deed, and thought to fingertip is a seed. We all plant them. You are wrong to say that I am trying to convert any one back to Christianity. I myself view Orthodox Christianity to be grossly lacking, and decietful, controling, and wolvish. I believe that the many paths [can] all lead back to the source, tho. I wish to plant seeds of love [To put it plainly] and to help show importance thereof. My ideology gets in the way, however. Obviously James The fact your ideology and dogma gets in the way is more to do with the fact the philosophy would work better and seamlessly without all the JEsus crap you've shoe horned in... But you take that out and what you have is Hinduism... scrape the idea of a literal god-head out of Hinduism, and you have Buddhism... effectively the problem you can't see is that it's been done better, before, without Jesus in the mix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Kel, can you really say that someone who uses the phrase 'Martyrs for Christ' and means it is all there? The subtext to that turn of phrase is the same as use any means necessary... If she feels like that, I personally don't give a rat's ass about 'finer feelings'... I never saw that post. Would you point me to it? Even so, I still think she's much more open-minded and not volatile like the rest of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Soj - Lately, the past few days, SEVERAL new xtians have shown up here. Kratos, not scarvanlest and united1. From what I have seen most of the heat has been directed at them anyway. I think most of us here have classified you as CINO and not a threat to our sanity. Plus, for the most part, you have NOT been disrespectfully of us, thus not bringing down the teeth of the Lions. Soj are you *really" including yourself in "their" camp? I notice you seem to now be in the "apologist"" group instead of the standard member group... Did I somehow miss a melt-down? I guess I must have missed some of the drama here, I recall you being one of the MOST accepted CINOs around here... hmmmm.... I think xtians coming here should be treated ACCORDING to how they act. Seed sowers, "good news" bearers, etc etc, they are here to win brownie points for gawd. Others I think are here because they are "interested" in the ex-c mindset, are interested in learning "why" people leave the faith, and are on the road to deconversion as well. I never saw soj or OM as "evangelists" and I do percieve them as on the road to de-conversion (no matter how much they deny it, this is how the speech of their posts hit me inside). CINO seems one of the final steps before shucking it, so I don't really see them as "xtian". Soj, getting mad at how we say we feel about xtians, does not translate into how we feel about "you", since obviously the majority here have never really considered you xtian in the first place, it really don't apply to you. Hmmm... Someone link me to the thread where she had whatever meltdown got her group changed, I would really be suprised, didn't think that she would fall into that camp full-force... Been wrong before though, believe it or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Kel, can you really say that someone who uses the phrase 'Martyrs for Christ' and means it is all there? The subtext to that turn of phrase is the same as use any means necessary... If she feels like that, I personally don't give a rat's ass about 'finer feelings'... In my experience, soj has been having a generally positive attitude to things - she tries to appreciate people's posts and learn from them in her own way, no matter who they're coming from. I also haven't experienced her preaching. This makes her very different from the average Christian, and I think she looks like she's a sweet person, and judging by her posts so far, I like her. PVC and a good salesman apes the language and gestures of the person they're speaking to to close a sale... but maybe I'm over trained in the psychology of the subject... it reads like NLP to me... However, I'm prepared, nay, happy, to be proved wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Gimme a break! "Planting the seeds of Spirit" is an act of attempted persuasion, with the hopeful outcome of eventually leading to our re-conversions. This is something that you purposefully sought US out to do. It's pathetic to try to pull off such unmitigated baloney on us. We all plant seeds ShackledNoMore. Every word, deed, and thought to fingertip is a seed. We all plant them. You are wrong to say that I am trying to convert any one back to Christianity. I myself view Orthodox Christianity to be grossly lacking, and decietful, controling, and wolvish. I believe that the many paths [can] all lead back to the source, tho. I wish to plant seeds of love [To put it plainly] and to help show importance thereof. My ideology gets in the way, however. Obviously James Well, there is a difference between incidental seeds and purposefully going out into the field and sowing them. We may influence others, or potentially influence them (or not), but planting, or sowing, is active and involves an agenda, and we don't all have an agenda to persuade all the time. You apparently have a non-mainstream twist on xianity. In that case, you may be promoting a slightly different version of the same cult. There's a heck of a lot of twists on xianity and it makes no difference to us if you claim to eschew orthodox xianity while promoting another flavor, you still have the same stickily problems involved with your variant as other xians do with theirs. I'm not sure whether you would hope for others to embrace your specific ideology or not, but your stated role as a Johnny Appleseed of love is frankly a bit perplexing to me. Have you read some of the threads in the sections geared for regular members where xians are spectators? Threads dealing with issues, struggles, growth, questions between regular members where engaging xians is not involved. A big role of this site is as a support forum. Have you noticed that people are kind, supportive, and like each other? I don't know exactly what you mean with your use of the "love" word, but I do care about others on this site and their well-being. It has been my experience that there is a lot more of that sentiment here than in xian culture, and I see no evidence of any special "love" that both we and orthodox xians lack from the category xians who come along such as you (and we've had quite a few here) that bash mainstream xianity as controlling and wolfish (which I agree it is) in favor of their own brands of "True" xianity. In fact, it doesn't seem much like love to me for emissaries to come by to try to "set straight" with a variant du jour of xian "Truth" or "love" a group of people who, on average, are at least as kind and benevolent as the general population, and from what I see more so than the average xian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Well, there is a difference between incidental seeds and purposefully going out into the field and sowing them. We may influence others, or potentially influence them (or not), but planting, or sowing, is active and involves an agenda, and we don't all have an agenda to persuade all the time. You apparently have a non-mainstream twist on xianity. In that case, you may be promoting a slightly different version of the same cult. There's a heck of a lot of twists on xianity and it makes no difference to us if you claim to eschew orthodox xianity while promoting another flavor, you still have the same stickily problems involved with your variant as other xians do with theirs. I'm not sure whether you would hope for others to embrace your specific ideology or not, but your stated role as a Johnny Appleseed of love is frankly a bit perplexing to me. Have you read some of the threads in the sections geared for regular members where xians are spectators? Threads dealing with issues, struggles, growth, questions between regular members where engaging xians is not involved. A big role of this site is as a support forum. Have you noticed that people are kind, supportive, and like each other? I don't know exactly what you mean with your use of the "love" word, but I do care about others on this site and their well-being. It has been my experience that there is a lot more of that sentiment here than in xian culture, and I see no evidence of any special "love" that both we and orthodox xians lack from the category xians who come along such as you (and we've had quite a few here) that bash mainstream xianity as controlling and wolfish (which I agree it is) in favor of their own brands of "True" xianity. In fact, it doesn't seem much like love to me for emissaries to come by to try to "set straight" with a variant du jour of xian "Truth" or "love" a group of people who, on average, are at least as kind and benevolent as the general population, and from what I see more so than the average xian. No, I have not read a great deal on this site, but I have [off and on] been lurking for some time. Probably for more than a year. I just looked the site up again yesterday because I knew you all would challange me, my beliefs, and help me in the end. I understand what you say about incidental seed and purposeful seed. I try to be mindful of what I do, and say so yes...It was purposeful in that manner. [i sought to convey a message - plant seed] James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 The word you are looking for is 'evangelise'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 . [i sought to convey a message - plant seed] What you *really* did was convey to us the degree in which you hold your delusion so dear. You "planted the seed" of your philosophy, and that philosphy is not very different from the manner in which many here *used to* believe. You are not planting seeds, in order to "plant" a new idea, and have it "grow", it first needs to be new and different. You cannot plant an oak tree seed on top of an oak tree and expect it to grow, you would need to plant it in soil first. See the difference? And you come here spreading your ideas, belief and philosophy, NOT truth. Truth is made true by being supported with facts. Facts are made known through proof. You have only "opinion, ideas and philosphy" not truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 The word you are looking for is 'evangelise'... Could be... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Micheal, that is your reality - not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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