♦ nivek ♦ Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Tyranny is sinThe Libertarian Enterprise by A.X. Perez "The Judeo-Christian religions (this includes Islam) subscribe to the Ten Commandments. It is kind of fun to note that every form of tyranny eventually violates all of them. Thought I'd run through the list. I may mix up the Catholic and Jewish/Protestant translations to speed up this article. Anyone who wishes to is free to expand on the pecation of those who would suppress liberty." (01/07/08) http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2008/tle450-20080106-03.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_In_Michigan Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyranny tyrannyOne entry found. tyranny Main Entry: tyr·an·ny Listen to the pronunciation of tyranny Pronunciation: \ˈtir-ə-nē\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural tyr·an·nies Etymology: Middle English tyrannie, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin tyrannia, from Latin tyrannus tyrant Date: 14th century 1: oppressive power <every form of tyranny over the mind of man — Thomas Jefferson>; especially : oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state> 2 a: a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state b: the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant 3: a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force <living under the tyranny of the clock — Dixon Wecter> 4: a tyrannical act <workers who had suffered tyrannies> I'd have to say the xtian God, or the self-imposed policies resulting from living a life that complies with the Word of Gawd if you want to look at it that way, is nothing but a tyrant/tyranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adam T Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The fact that you have the choice not to believe in God is proof that God is not a tyrant. Religious institutions can deffinately act tyranically, but the fact they do so does not make God a tyrant it just makes them tyrants. The fact is that the Bible is full of examples of people choosing not to obey God. Heck if God was a tyrant he would not have let Adam and Eve eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The very existance of that tree is proof of freewill. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 SQUIDDIE! BTW, Adam, you're awful long on editorial for someone claiming they're here to learn... I'd suggest you reel in the attitude problem and the advice and read more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The fact that you have the choice not to believe in God is proof that God is not a tyrant. That line of thinking cuts both ways. The fact that people didn't have to believe in Stalin as a leader is proof that he wasn't a tyrant. Religious institutions can deffinately act tyranically, but the fact they do so does not make God a tyrant it just makes them tyrants. The Bible establishes the divine right of kings, it does not promote democratic institutions. All kings or rulers are appointed by God and people are to submit to their authority. Rom 13:1-7 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. The fact is that the Bible is full of examples of people choosing not to obey God. And Soviet history is full of examples of the same. Heck if God was a tyrant he would not have let Adam and Eve eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The very existance of that tree is proof of freewill. "Freewill" is a chimera, a nebulous concept that the Bible undermines in various passages. The "free" will isn't really free or unconditional, as punishment occurs for the fauilure to respond correctly. Predestination also renders "freewill" moot. Eph 1:4-5,11 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 The fact that you have the choice not to believe in God is proof that God is not a tyrant. Please explain this choice to me. Love god and believe in him or burn in writhing pain for all eternity. Yup. That's a choice. Kinda like give me a $1,000,000 or I'll send your daughter back in one piece. Fuck with me and I'll send her back one piece at a time. That's also a choice by your definition. Sounds kinda tyrranical to me, but what the hell do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Nice one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 With my post count I'm bound to have one or two. Kinda like a broken clock that's right twice a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Nah... you're awesome and you know it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adam T Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 SQUIDDIE! BTW, Adam, you're awful long on editorial for someone claiming they're here to learn... I'd suggest you reel in the attitude problem and the advice and read more... No attitude meant. Just putting forward my thoughts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adam T Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 The fact that you have the choice not to believe in God is proof that God is not a tyrant. Please explain this choice to me. Love god and believe in him or burn in writhing pain for all eternity. Yup. That's a choice. Kinda like give me a $1,000,000 or I'll send your daughter back in one piece. Fuck with me and I'll send her back one piece at a time. That's also a choice by your definition. Sounds kinda tyrranical to me, but what the hell do I know? - Since Adam and Eve, we have all been destined for Hell. We sinned and took on sinfull natures. Since the penalty for all sin is death (Hell), then that is where we are all destined for. Two traits of God is that he is Just and he is full of love. Because Justice is Good and God is Good, God cannot just turn a blind eye to the sins we commit. To do this would be unjust. THerefore, because God loves us, he took all our sins through Jesus and paid the price (death). Jesus therefore served the need for justice. However, for this entire effort to work you have to recognize and accept that Jesus paid the price for your sins (past, present and future). Having to accept this gift to be Saved from eternal damnation, is a choice. On another note: I am realizing that the time I have for this is limited, but this discussion is important to me. Therefore, I am going to refrain from poking willy nilly through threads and making arguments. Instead I will see if I can start a new thread that will be solely dedicated to me learning from you all. Though I will tell you that I do not learn well through simply reading what others have to say, so expect questions. I will tell you that because Of time limitations that I will not be able to post every night, but I will take well thought out arguments seriously ans will research what is laid out. So far today I have learned alot about predestination and freewill. I have also realized that freewill has little to do with the definition of tyranny. My mistake, I don't claim to be perfect. So if you are up to it you can convince the Squiddie. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Adam, You do realize that the only thing that can tyrannize you is another person, or that person's representative? Gunpoint, taxes, social contracts, feathers stuck in your butt crack unbidden, tigers let loose in your thong undies on lion night at the fetish club... All of the above happen when something man made causes it. An unknown, invisible force does nothing to fuck with your reality and in turn causes you to be injured or hurt. Belief in such a diety may happen, but only by human hands doing such things. (Arguments about "forces of nature" are beyond the OP, and are not considered "tyranny". Just in case we got side stacked on that bent.) I am not a lawyer, but I do play one on the web occasionally and like to re-pop articles like OP. makes a guy or gal think about the legal strictures we have managed to place ourselves in and under. Abrahamic religions are the source of most of the stifling and uncreative formats of Laws and Rules we have. "What isn't mandatory is forbidden" is the general tasking given most religious thought. I can't think of a single aspect of life that religiousness attempts to *not control* by rules and interpretations of the Invisible Skyman and The Rulebook(s) handed down from on high. Prefer that if someone comes to me and hands me rules and regulations, that at some time in formation of that social contract (one spot with Locke I disagree with heartily) I have some word spent in the rules that attempt to enslav, err, tyrannize me and mine. If you are a follower of the various versions of the xtian god, then you are a slaver, one who will be met with the utmost disdain and anger, will refuse you quarter. kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 - Since Adam and Eve, we have all been destined for Hell. We sinned and took on sinfull natures. Since the penalty for all sin is death (Hell), then that is where we are all destined for. Who wrote the rules brainiac? Biblegod, that's who. Biblegod is all powerful and all knowing. Right? First, he designed tyrranical rules for his vicious game. Think Stalin here. "Comrade Ivanovich, we must inform you that you will work in Kaluma until you are dead. You know the rules. You may not write books that do not glorify Slava Russia! Your poetry proves you are a traitor." Two traits of God is that he is Just and he is full of love. Because Justice is Good and God is Good, God cannot just turn a blind eye to the sins we commit. Not only would a loving god not create tyrranical rules in his system, but he would not create you if he knew that you were merely born to a destiny of eternal fire. If you are not a father, then try to put yourself in the shoes of a father. If you had 100% knowledge prior to the conception of your daughter that she would one day be thrown into hell to burn and suffer for all eternity, would you or would you not wear a condom before sleeping with your wife? If you knew in advance your daughter's fate and chose to do your part in her conception, what would that make you? A monster? Worse? To do this would be unjust. THerefore, because God loves us, he took all our sins through Jesus and paid the price (death). That's just fine and dandy, but once again, biblegod is the one who established impossible rules for humans to live by. You can't sneeze and not offend god and you know that's true. Read Leviticus if you don't believe me. For god to then turn to you and tell you choose me and my sacrifice because I love you, or reject me and die and suffer is the ultimate disingenuous act. Again, it's like Stalin (a tyrrant if you don't know your history). "Comrade! March in the Red Army. Praise Slava Russia. I will let you join Consumal. If, moi drug, I suspect you are not genuine, you will labor in Siberia for I am a just man as you know." Adam, if you can explain to me why the system biblegod established is more just and loving than the system established by the tyrrant Stalin, we can continue this discussion. Thus far you have proven to be not a thinker, but a parot of those things you have been indoctrinated with. I see no thinking involved in what you have written. It's no different than Tom Cruise evoking the doctrine of Scientology with a glazed look in his eyes. Prove to us that you are not just a fundybot, but that you have a brain of your own. I challenge you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "So if you are up to it you can convince the Squiddie" Why the hell should we have to convince you of anything? you're the one with imaginary friend who is magically three independent and autonomous beings in one and undead all at the same time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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