GraphicsGuy Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 After reading/replying to ExConfusedChristian's topic regarding her spouse, my own experiences with my ex-wife, and having heard so many accounts of spouses/parents/siblings that reject those who deconvert from the faith: I want to tell those Xians that reject their deconverted and/or other religion believing family members that they DIGUST me. I want to ask them how and why they could do such a thing. Did you EVER really love the PERSON or just that they used to AGREE with you? Xians are SUPPOSED to show love yet this is an ultimate rejection of love. It says that YOUR version of love is small and narrow and is totally 100% CONDITIONAL. I am severely restraining myself from calling those of you who reject people who love you every name in the book. If someone rejects Xianity is doesn't mean they reject YOU. You have no clue how much it hurts to be rejected by someone you love in this manner. I would even venture to say that it hurts worse than being cheated on (though that is subjective). What's more important? People or doctrine? EDIT: Hehehe...my 666 post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 This is one thread the evangelists probably won't touch with a ten foot pole. It's just too REAL. They are more comfortable when they can stand back and blurb about being "unevenly yoked" much more easily when real life examples of the hurt that docrine causes in REAL relationships is not directly before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 I know...and it will likely be ignored too, but I'm too pissed off about it to keep quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 There is NO EXCUSE for betrayal, cowardice, bigotry, and dishonour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Man Graphicsguy you certainly have a way of picking the things that make me wanna grab my torch and pitchfork to start a mob. ARHHHGGG FUGGIN ARHHHGGH......All that stupid xian doublespeak. They talk about things like unconditional love , free will, acceptance, "identity in christ", as the great and wonderful reasons for their faith. Its not real none of it, wtf is an idenity in christ, how are you supposed to become some singular individual by submitting to a doctrine and actually trying to be like someone else? Free will? If coercion, alienation and eternal dammnation have no bearing on your decisions, then yeah sure. Acceptance? I dont even need to touch that one. And you guys have already sunk the unconditional love boat. The people that walk around saying words like these with beatific smiles need to seriously examine their faith and what its really about. I know some xians who talk bad about Islam since its very name means "submission" and alot of its about submitting to Allah.......WELL WTF IS XIANITY ALL ABOUT?!??!?! .....(sigh)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 And this is the reason lately that so many times I look at so many Christians and wish they would burst into flames! You did nothing to deserve this pain! *grabs a torch!* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 There is NO EXCUSE for betrayal, cowardice, bigotry, and dishonour! Ah, but when you're backed up by the BuyBull-shit anything goes, don't it? With God all things are possible! Man Graphicsguy you certainly have a way of picking the things that make me wanna grab my torch and pitchfork to start a mob. I almost wish it was possible...lynch all the fundies and toss 'em in the ocean... Of course, if they'd actually be loving I wouldn't feel that way about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 true... you can't burn them since they burn smokey... erm... I'm told they burn smoky... not that I've ever burned one... well, there was that time in the Second Crusade, but that was an accident I tell you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 but that was an accident I tell you! He's innocent, your honor, I swear on your damn book! We was just standing there and the guy burst into flames! We did see Rhia looking at him kinda funny...like Drew Barrymore in "Firestarter" ya know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Look at it this way Guy, if you can still laugh, they ain't won... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyMoon Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 After reading/replying to ExConfusedChristian's topic regarding her spouse, my own experiences with my ex-wife, and having heard so many accounts of spouses/parents/siblings that reject those who deconvert from the faith: I want to tell those Xians that reject their deconverted and/or other religion believing family members that they DIGUST me. I want to ask them how and why they could do such a thing. Did you EVER really love the PERSON or just that they used to AGREE with you? Xians are SUPPOSED to show love yet this is an ultimate rejection of love. It says that YOUR version of love is small and narrow and is totally 100% CONDITIONAL. I am severely restraining myself from calling those of you who reject people who love you every name in the book. If someone rejects Xianity is doesn't mean they reject YOU. You have no clue how much it hurts to be rejected by someone you love in this manner. I would even venture to say that it hurts worse than being cheated on (though that is subjective). What's more important? People or doctrine? EDIT: Hehehe...my 666 post... Thanks for saying that.... I am about ready to break the news to my family that I am an atheist.... You have encouraged me to do so by saying that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Most Christians (like others) live by what they want rather than what God wants. Even fundies as you call them will put there own desires over the Bible that they claim to be final authority. The Bible does say that we should not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers, but I have always understood this to be a warning for a more peacable life as it can be hard to walk together if you do not agree. So when it comes to marriage, it would be a warning to choose someone that you are spiritually compatible with. However, if you do marry an unbeliever or after you marry your spouse becomes an unbeliever, the scriptures specifically prohibit divorce in that situation: 1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. I don't know if this helps anyone because a selfish person will choose what they want no matter what their beliefs, but don't let anyone tell you that the Bible condones such behavior. So at least in this case, the problem is not the Bible, but the hypocracy of some Christians. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I don't know if this helps anyone because a selfish person will choose what they want no matter what their beliefs, but don't let anyone tell you that the Bible condones such behavior. So at least in this case, the problem is not the Bible, but the hypocracy of some Christians. Agreed. So why is such hypocracy deemed "okay" by the majority of christians? Why do you hear the "unevenly yoked" verse more often than 1Cor 7:12-15? The easy answer would be that most people seek to justify action they've already decided to take (like ending a marriage) and the bible has a verse that justifies damn near any action you can imagine if you look hard enough. A while ago, someone posted an article in a thread where divorce rates were compared, and the divorce rates were higher for christians than for nonbelievers. The easy "why?" for that one might be that many christians put too much faith in their supreme being to work things out in their marriage, instead of accepting full and total responsibility for marital success themselves. They communicate more fully with their god than with their spouse anotherwords. Not healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Thanks for saying that.... I am about ready to break the news to my family that I am an atheist.... You have encouraged me to do so by saying that That encouraged you to break the news? You're braver than I am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 A while ago, someone posted an article in a thread where divorce rates were compared, and the divorce rates were higher for christians than for nonbelievers. The easy "why?" for that one might be that many christians put too much faith in their supreme being to work things out in their marriage, instead of accepting full and total responsibility for marital success themselves. They communicate more fully with their god than with their spouse anotherwords. I agree with that, plus I think Xians get themselves into bad situations with marriage since they often go into it not knowing who they are as a person. Everything they are is wrapped up in religion and marriage is a bit of a smack-down into reality. And then there are always the cases of, "God told me we should be together," blah blah blah. Years later it becomes, "God told me I married the wrong person." And so on and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 There is NO EXCUSE for betrayal, cowardice, bigotry, and dishonour! Damn. I wish my parents got that memo... After thinking about it for weeks, I just now sitting down writing my piss-off letter to them for how they have treated me since my coming out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 just now sitting down writing my piss-off letter to them for how they have treated me since my coming out... Brave girl...here's to hoping they may actually wake up and smell the stink of their own "love"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I was once told that something that was an abomination before the Lord in Leviticus would still be an abomination now... strange to say that when I asked why they don't do burnt offerings any more, since it was sweet unto the Lord in Lev thus, it would be sweet now, applying their logic, they never did answer. When I kept asking them on every post they subsequently made (the directed question was in my sig for a week) they pissed off the forum never to return, after a long and bitter 'Flouncing Post' and series of abusive PMs to me... Seems it involved too much thinking... it melted their tiny mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Yup, I know what you mean GG, when I married we were both xtian. Now that she has started to "realize" I am not, and having a few long conversations in 07 as to why I don't believe, things got worse with us. It is very *hard* living with someone who makes it clear they think you are going to hell. It is a *very* conditional love. I would say though, that in Dec, and so far this year, it has mellowed. I think she is accepting it more and more. She never brings up the topic anymore except for the occasional jab. But always in the back of my mind is her "judgement" of me, that will likely linger the rest of our lives together. But at least she *is* starting to deal with it. We actually started doing things together again, in fact we went and saw "I am legend" last night together. Great movie BTW, I recommend it. I think time will make things better GG, or put it this way, I hope it does for you, seems to be working that way here. I just wish I would have let her know years ago. Why? To get the judgements and the hard feelings over and out of the way. I think in time, if the person really does love you and need you, they will learn to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I don't know if this helps anyone because a selfish person will choose what they want no matter what their beliefs, but don't let anyone tell you that the Bible condones such behavior. So at least in this case, the problem is not the Bible, but the hypocracy of some Christians. John I don't think many of us *care* if the buybull condones it or not really, we are ex-christians, so why would that matter? Quoting "scripture" to us is pretty much meaningless, us being ex and all... Do you think we don't already know what the book of myths already says? You act like we "forgot" all that crap... Being an EX-C does not mean you get a memory wipe, it just means you have woke up from a dream, you still remember that dream, you just don't believe it anymore. You quote the buybull like you "think" it is helping us... Now, if this were an atheist web site, and we did not "know" the book, or the religion, then maybe your thoughts "might" be helpful to us for understanding our christian relatives, but that's not the case. You don't think ex-christians take the bible as authority in any way do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 And what counts for more? What their holy book says? Or how christians actually behave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I'm going to have to be the one who disagrees on this topic. I don't think love is unconditional. If it were we could just walk up to the first person we came across and "love" them. But that doesn't happen (very often at least). The idea is that when you hook up with someone you're interested in you get to know them. To see if you are "compatible" (which means sharing common interests, ideologies, etc.). Love is usually based on this "compatibility" (as opposed to just "lust" which certainly plays a part too). If you don't believe in <fundamentalism> (for example) but the other person does while dating odds are "love" will not grow from that encounter and you will move along (or you'd be wise to move along). So why does it change so much after the "I do's?" If that thing (fundamentalism) is a deal breaker before a wedding then why should it be accepted after the wedding? "Love?" Does "love" mean accepting a thing you wouldn't accept prior to signing a document and having a ceremony? If not fundamentalism what about something more extreme like a racist group (ie. neo-nazi's)? From the other perspective the wanted/had a xian and now they have something else (an atheist even!). Where is the line or does "love" erase them? If these items are "red flags" when starting a relationship then they are "red flags" inside a relationship. Love does not conquer all. That's the myth that leads to the disappointment. Love just tries a little harder. The problem seems to be that when both people entered into the relationship as one thing...in many of our case xians...the "xian" aspect was never discussed. It wasn't an issue. It was assumed. So when we left the faith it became an issue. An issue that would have possibly been discussed "way back when" before the relationship became serious but wasn't. Would your spouse have married an atheist (the current you)? Would you have married your fundie spouse as-is? If not then why expect "love" to fix that now? The biggest thing for me to accept is when my wife didn't just admit it was her bias but the bias of a book. Then it was like a book was rejecting me. It was like it was out of her control that she had to "hate" me now. That guy she knew and that time she spent with him meant nothing...not because she didn't want it too...but it wasn't up to her anymore. So rather than fight for me the book won and that was that. It really was far more hurtful and insulting than if she had rejected me for what I actually believed because then there would have been a reason. A painful "mismatch." This was more like being sold out. A betrayal. And she wasn't even putting up a fight to keep me/us when that's all I felt I was doing. Anyhow, I'm usually alone on this but I guess I just don't see "love" as this ideal transcendent thing. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Can someone remind me why the extinction of our species is a 'Bad Thing'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Can someone remind me why the extinction of our species is a 'Bad Thing'... But...but I'm ever so special, the universe would just be so much less if my simian awesomeness was taken away!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 umm... yeah... right... whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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