European Death Toll

[Guest ChristianityIsAntiEuropean]

Ever contemplate the European death toll due to biblical writings? It is insane. Here's the scoop on killing .5 million Germans in four short days during WWII:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dr...in_World_War_II

 

And that is just one recent example.

 

 

Now we Americans have some "preacher" by the name of Tim Lahaye claiming some like "...the anti-Christ will come out of Europe" in his "Left Behind" series. With this in mind, I can't help but wonder how many more Europeans will die next time the theologians of this country decide to unleash hell on a far away land.

 

The religious right in this country is getting ready for something... something big. I can feel it. They hate love and peace, though ironically claim to want nothing but. We know these are lies, however. Just look at Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" - it is blood and gore for the sake of it. And it made MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

 

Don't ever feel sorry for these "nice" Christians. They are cold blooded killers of men, women and children. They are waiting for Jesus to come back and kill YOU, the unrepentant sinner!

[Vigile]

Dunno, seems like a fairly xenophobic view of christians to me. Yes, xianity is a sick and twisted religion. Your post, however, reminds me of a Nazi propaganda poster that paints the Jews as evil little devils. You just replaced the Jews with xians.

 

This post may need to be moved to a different section. What say you mods?

[The-Captain]

The "Genocidal Demagoguery Rant" section perhaps?

[Grandpa Harley]

Did some alter order of magnitudes while I was degreasing the cooker hood?

 

25,000–35,000 causalities is ~0.5 Million?

 

And it was Christians bombing Christians... and it showed Churchill for the spineless wretch he could be... Harrison was told to make a statement. He did, using a lower tonnage of bombs than many other civilian targets hit by RAF/USAAF in the war that far. Then everyone bought Goebells' version of events until it's engrained in the Zeit Geist that Dresden, from the get go, was to be the Nagasaki of the West with conventional weapons, when dry weather, timber buildings and general lack of preparation were the main killers... and Harrison couldn't have planned that.

 

God preserve us from the historically ignorant.

[Celsus]

To use a Biblical phrase in a paraphrased way. "The Krauts sowed the wind, they reaped the whirlwind". Germans started civilian bombings. In WW1, German Zeppelins bombed London and Paris. In WW2, the Krauts bombed Warsaw, Leningrad, Belgain, Dutch, French and English cities. They did this under the doctrine developed by the Italian Air pioneer Dohet. This doctrine taught that terror bombings of civilians would lead to the collapse of the enemy. All sides in the war believed in mass air raids of civilian targets, except the USAAF. However, the inability to hit precise targets resulted in the USAAF adopting carpet bombing like the RAF. However, the Germans had it coming. Sure innocent people get killed, but it is damned hard to feel sympathy to a people who's government (that was wildly popular) attacked almost all of Europe and bombed innocent civilians, not to mention their more nasty things like the SS and the Final Solution. As a grandson of a man who liberated Dachau and the other who flew bombers into the Third Reich with the 8th USAAF, my thoughts boil down to this..... Fuck the krauts.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Don't ever feel sorry for these "nice" Christians. They are cold blooded killers of men, women and children. They are waiting for Jesus to come back and kill YOU, the unrepentant sinner!

 

Jebuz can return.. Firing solution's been loaded, practiced for, and solved. No problem.

 

As far ad Dresden, Nagasaki/Horoshima and such, the Winners get to write the books and play Judge at War Crimes Trials.

 

I'm sure there'd'a been a few dozen Admirals, Generals and assorted high level Allied Staffers "Swing the Devil's Rope Dance" should the obverse of known history have happened.

 

Can't do shit about it, and could care less whose fucked up religion did what to who, whom or Homer.

 

Best we can do is hope we raise our kids to not fight wars over religious idiocy.

 

kFL

[MultifariousBirdLady]

Ever contemplate the European death toll due to biblical writings? It is insane. Here's the scoop on killing .5 million Germans in four short days during WWII:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dr...in_World_War_II

 

And that is just one recent example.

 

What does the bombing of Dresden have to do with biblical writings? Were quotes used by the allied forces to justify this that I'm not aware of?

 

Now we Americans have some "preacher" by the name of Tim Lahaye claiming some like "...the anti-Christ will come out of Europe" in his "Left Behind" series. With this in mind, I can't help but wonder how many more Europeans will die next time the theologians of this country decide to unleash hell on a far away land.

 

The religious right in this country is getting ready for something... something big. I can feel it.

 

He did say that, yes. Kevin Phillips writes a bit about the impact of the Left Behind series in his book called American Theocracy. But most countries in Europe are also American allies now. I think it's unlikely that evangelicals will suddenly peg a European as the antichrist. I think it's much more likely that they would peg someone from the middle east with that title, if anybody. Or, in time, perhaps someone from China.

 

What makes you think the R.R. is gearing up for something? What have you heard?

 

They hate love and peace, though ironically claim to want nothing but. We know these are lies, however.

 

Now this I must disagree with. I think that the vast majority of Christians really do want love and peace, but many (not all) of them have been duped into the idea that things are going to get worse and worse until Jesus comes back to fix everything. Those in power who are pushing for war either (a) are playing the religious side and don't really believe it... they're really war profiteers, or else (b)they really do believe it and are operating with the idea that they can help bring about the end times so that Jesus comes back. The masses of believers are being manipulated by these people, IMO, but in truth the masses I do think want love and peace. Their kind of love and peace, mind you, not a pluralistic society, but love and peace nonetheless.

 

Just look at Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" - it is blood and gore for the sake of it. And it made MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!!

 

Well, yes, but that's just one guy. It made millions because it was pushed heavily by the churches operating under the assumption that the worse you feel about Jesus' death, the better. It doesn't mean they love gore for the sake of it... except maybe for Mel.

 

Don't ever feel sorry for these "nice" Christians. They are cold blooded killers of men, women and children. They are waiting for Jesus to come back and kill YOU, the unrepentant sinner!

 

No, you're wrong.

 

I understand your anger, but making false accusations against them is nevertheless completely unjustified. Remember, we all used to be Christians. Were we cold-blooded killers? No, of course not.

 

It's true that you will find a few Christians who seem to revel in the idea of sinners (anybody they don't like, really) getting "what they deserve" by roasting in hell. In my experience, they are really in the minority, not the majority, and I seriously doubt that most of these people would ever be so hateful as to want to kill anybody themselves. But if Jesus does it, they'd be smug and consider it "right."

 

I think most other Christians -- including the rest of my family which is still Christian -- would weep for the loss of human life even if Jesus did come back and slaughter sinners. There are many, many Christians who do love other people but (as I said) are duped into thinking that anybody not Christian is going to roast in hell. And that's why they are so persistent in trying to get people to convert.

[Guest ChristianityIsAntiEuropean]

Dunno, seems like a fairly xenophobic view of christians to me. Yes, xianity is a sick and twisted religion. Your post, however, reminds me of a Nazi propaganda poster that paints the Jews as evil little devils. You just replaced the Jews with xians.

 

This post may need to be moved to a different section. What say you mods?

 

 

Nah, the National Socialist are just the most recent example in history. I could have used events from the dark ages but it would have less meaning. Also, look at the Dresden pic on the wiki - the "allies" left the churches standing... but bombed everything else.

 

My point is that, "they did it before and they will do it again". These psychos are just waiting for the next blood bath - and it will be termed "righteous versus evil". They are insane and extremely dangerous... pawning themselves off as "God's Chosen/Forgiven".

[The-Captain]

Dunno, seems like a fairly xenophobic view of christians to me. Yes, xianity is a sick and twisted religion. Your post, however, reminds me of a Nazi propaganda poster that paints the Jews as evil little devils. You just replaced the Jews with xians.

 

This post may need to be moved to a different section. What say you mods?

 

 

Nah, the National Socialist are just the most recent example in history. I could have used events from the dark ages but it would have less meaning. Also, look at the Dresden pic on the wiki - the "allies" left the churches standing... but bombed everything else.

 

My point is that, "they did it before and they will do it again". These psychos are just waiting for the next blood bath - and it will be termed "righteous versus evil". They are insane and extremely dangerous... pawning themselves off as "God's Chosen/Forgiven".

 

And what do you propose to do about it that wouldnt be equally dangerous and insane?

[Vigile]

WWII had zero to do with religion. Power hungry and greedy leaders always wrap wars in flags and shrouds but wars are fought for resources and power. Xians are in general stupid enough to buy the xenophobic arguments of their leaders making them prone to supporting violence, but the OP is just making the same emotional appeal.

[Grandpa Harley]

Dunno, seems like a fairly xenophobic view of christians to me. Yes, xianity is a sick and twisted religion. Your post, however, reminds me of a Nazi propaganda poster that paints the Jews as evil little devils. You just replaced the Jews with xians.

 

This post may need to be moved to a different section. What say you mods?

 

 

Nah, the National Socialist are just the most recent example in history. I could have used events from the dark ages but it would have less meaning. Also, look at the Dresden pic on the wiki - the "allies" left the churches standing... but bombed everything else.

 

My point is that, "they did it before and they will do it again". These psychos are just waiting for the next blood bath - and it will be termed "righteous versus evil". They are insane and extremely dangerous... pawning themselves off as "God's Chosen/Forgiven".

 

There speaks a man who knows nothing about carpet bombing. the churches stood, not because they were 'spared,' but because the'yre bloody hard to bomb flat... Look at the recent Indian ocean tsunami... the mosques were not 'spared', they were just too well engineered to get washed away or bombed flat...

[crazy-tiger]

...look at the Dresden pic on the wiki - the "allies" left the churches standing... but bombed everything else.

You're an ignorant sod, aren't you?

 

Look more closely at the article... to quote,

The tonnage of bombs dropped on Dresden was actually lower than in many other areas, but ideal weather conditions, the wooden-framed buildings, the "breakthroughs" linking the cellars of contiguous buildings, and the city's lack of preparation conspired to make the attack particularly devastating.

Note the bolded section... note how the churches would have been solid stone constuction, wouldn't have been contiguous. That by itself shows just how little structural damage was going to be done by incendries. (oh yes, very little HE was used, so little explosive damage would have been done)

 

In addition, just because there was ONE picture showing the view from ONE church, it doesn't follow that NO church was hit. On the contrary, since they were using Carpet Bombing, there was no way they could deliberately aim for all the buildings but a few, that would have been bloody well surrounded by what they're trying to hit!

 

 

Hey, here's something for you to chew on... this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_Frauenkirche was destroyed by the firebombing...

 

Why is that something important? Because it was the biggest and most famous church/cathedral in Dresden, possibly in Germany, since it was to Dresden what the WTC was to NY.

 

Now... if, as you claim, they deliberately avoided bombing the churches... why the living fuck was that famous one destroyed?

 

 

 

 

No, you're an ignorant fuckwit who's spewing the same type of hateful falsehoods that the biggest fuckwits from the RR spew... you are what you warn us about.

[Guest ChristianityIsAntiEuropean]

No, you're an ignorant fuckwit who's spewing the same type of hateful falsehoods that the biggest fuckwits from the RR spew... you are what you warn us about.

 

If you are arguing that the allies DID NOT attempt to avoid bombing churches - YOU ARE INSANE. My grandfather WAS THERE! He was part of the European "Theater". There was a specific effort made not to bomb churches. This effort was NOT made for civilian targets.

[The-Captain]

No, you're an ignorant fuckwit who's spewing the same type of hateful falsehoods that the biggest fuckwits from the RR spew... you are what you warn us about.

 

If you are arguing that the allies DID NOT attempt to avoid bombing churches - YOU ARE INSANE. My grandfather WAS THERE! He was part of the European "Theater". There was a specific effort made not to bomb churches. This effort was NOT made for civilian targets.

 

Thats a very small part of what we're taking issue with. Besides churches are civilian targets and as you well know are considered holy ground to xians, of course they wouldnt intentionally bomb them lest they offend god whilst merrily bombing kraut civilians.

[Grandpa Harley]

You don't bomb flat your major VFR navigation aids. Especially when you're going to take before and after photos to assess 'success'...

[♦ nivek ♦]

Kurt Vonnegut, author, was at the bombings of Dresen.

 

Horrorific messes all around save for the lack of obvious damage to the Americas.

 

I'm not sure we'll solve anything by carping about the fault of the warmakers of the World Wars.

 

Younge men were given tools and a mission, carried it out. Leaders in the decision making loops did the commands, the soldiers, marines, airmen and sailors did them.

 

The acrimony and tearing of underclothing *now* fixes little.

 

Let us fix eyes on hopefully not allowing disasters like this happen when we finally cause religiousness to *go away*.

 

Peace may mean that we all stand aroud with loaded rifles with fixed bayonets at each others throats while farmers and industry do their thing.

 

We'll not know 'til we try it.

 

kFL, wanting Peace, prepared for Battle

[Thurisaz]

...look at the Dresden pic on the wiki - the "allies" left the churches standing... but bombed everything else...

 

Hate to rain on your parade, but even if we assume that bombing with such precision was possible back then, this would have been one of very few cases where churches were left standing. Among many other examples, my hometown's "Andreaskirche" had been hit badly by the single bombing the city of Hildesheim had to suffer. Was a quite prominent church... highest spire of the whole Federal county of Nethersaxony. Dontcha think the morontheists would have left that one standing, for example, as a seeming "proof" of their gawd?

 

Plus, I take it (if you are correct) that even you will concede this one was an exception to the rule, yes? Or maybe this was just an accident - one of Dem Ebil Christians™ having been too incompetent?

 

 

(The above is a pic of how the "Frauenkirche" cathedral looked after The Day in Dresden... until a very short time ago when it was finally rebuilt. Most of the time since the war's end it had been left in ruins as a memorial to the madness of war)

 

Yeah morontheism sucks royally and must be destroyed for the good of humanity as a whole... but we need not resort to exaggerations to get that message across.

 

Greetings from just a fellow German.

[crazy-tiger]

No, you're an ignorant fuckwit who's spewing the same type of hateful falsehoods that the biggest fuckwits from the RR spew... you are what you warn us about.

 

If you are arguing that the allies DID NOT attempt to avoid bombing churches - YOU ARE INSANE. My grandfather WAS THERE! He was part of the European "Theater". There was a specific effort made not to bomb churches. This effort was NOT made for civilian targets.

Have you heard of Carpet Bombing? Do you know what it entails?

 

Just incase you really are ignorant rather than being a troll, Carpet Bombing meant you saturate the fucking area with bombs to ensure you hit your target.

Now... if you're saturating the area, and there's a church in that area, the only effort you could make to avoid hitting the church is to NOT BOMB THE FUCKING AREA ITSELF!

 

 

Now, if you want to talk about specific efforts to avoid hitting things, you'll be glad to know there was only 1 squadron in the RAF that ever had that pushed on them. You may have heard of them... 617. They were the ONLY precision bombing squadron in the RAF, thanks to the 14,000lb bombs they ended up using.

Unless you want to claim that this squadron was the entire RAF, or that you can intentionally avoid hitting a building in the middle of the area you're carpet bombing AND that the people running the show were deluded enough believe the same, then it's obvious that such a specific effort a figment of your imagination.