Kratos Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Ruby, Your last post almost leaves me speachless (almost). You sometimes seem so open minded and non-judgmental. Then, you come across as prejudging someone you know nothing about. I am far from a lazy person. I work hard every day to support my family. Many times working two jobs so my wife can be home with our children. I worked my way through college to get my education with no one including my parents able to contribute a dime. I worked from midnight to 7 am for 4 years loading beef carcasses on trucks at a slaughter house, then took a shower and went to class. I doubt you have any idea how far from lazy that is or how it reveals what I think of the value of education. I paid my dues in both tuition and at the college book store. This has nothing to do with the fact that I despise those who merchandise the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have suffered much and witnessed even more suffering delivered at the hands of many Elmer Gantry type hucksters who make their living off of the fears of people who do not have the personal fortitude to seek spirituality on their own. Jesus called them hirelings who run away as soon as the wolf comes instead of true shepherds who give their lives for the sheep. The bottom line is that my distaste for those who use the fear of Hell to steal the widow's last mite is my own business alone. I am frankly shocked that you would defend ministers who sell the gift of God for their own profit. I expect such an attitude from those caught up in religious systems. But I expected better things from those who supposedly have been freed from such nonsense. Maybe we are seeing the next superstar who hopes to one day get wealthy through selling your spiritual insights? I ain't buying. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 This has nothing to do with the fact that I despise those who merchandise the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have suffered much and witnessed even more suffering delivered at the hands of many Elmer Gantry type hucksters who make their living off of the fears of people who do not have the personal fortitude to seek spirituality on their own. Jesus called them hirelings who run away as soon as the wolf comes instead of true shepherds who give their lives for the sheep. The bottom line is that my distaste for those who use the fear of Hell to steal the widow's last mite is my own business alone. Maybe I did not read closely enough. Are you willing to buy some kinds of books if they have quality information? I thought you were saying education and books by definition should be free. I don't buy that. If writing or teaching is the only thing a person can do, and if that person writes or teaches something that makes the world a better place, I think that person deserves to be paid for his/her books the same as anyone else performing a service for humanity. If this is what you mean, then I think we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Ruby, I have a pretty large library and am now finishing the formal study that I have wanted all my life complete with a wall of new bookcases. I love books and buy my share. I just do not support ministers who only share what they say they have received from the Lord unless you buy their books, CDs, or tickets to their seminars. When someone suggests that I read a spirutal teacher, my first question is "Can I read their books online". This doesn't mean I won't buy a hard cover copy of their book if I feel it fills a niche in my library. It just reveals to me their true spirituality and whether they are a hireling or a man or woman of God. Like I said to GH, this is the standard I use for Christian ministers who write books and I should not carry this over to those who do not claim to have received what they share from the Lord freely. Thanks for listening and sorry if I overreacted. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Ruby, I have a pretty large library and am now finishing the formal study that I have wanted all my life complete with a wall of new bookcases. I love books and buy my share. I just do not support ministers who only share what they say they have received from the Lord unless you buy their books, CDs, or tickets to their seminars. When someone suggests that I read a spirutal teacher, my first question is "Can I read their books online". This doesn't mean I won't buy a hard cover copy of their book if I feel it fills a niche in my library. It just reveals to me their true spirituality and whether they are a hireling or a man or woman of God. Like I said to GH, this is the standard I use for Christian ministers who write books and I should not carry this over to those who do not claim to have received what they share from the Lord freely. Thanks for listening and sorry if I overreacted. John I think thats a good thing, in the frame of spiritual thought/learning money shouldnt play a part at all. If a spiritual truth (of course to me thats hypothetical, but nevertheless) is worth passing on the author should make it available to all. Not to speak for her but it seems Ruby thought you meant all books and academic publishing, if those were free all our academics and authors would be starving right now (well worse than now). I believe we call this an innocent misunderstanding between two decent people. Lets forget about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 And as an aside Kratos hardly strikes me as a fundamentalist, maybe he should be downgraded to apologist? As near as I can tell he is a devout Kratoist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 A fool knows the price of everything and the value of nothing... and then the real fool only values what fits his prejudices... Doctor, don't be deceived by old Kratos... if there ever was a talking snake, it was his kind... he meant books that don't pander to his world view. As to the books, Kratos, why make up excuses? You don't want to read them, then that's fine... just don't go putting your venality on to a quest for knowledge... you like being in your deep, crap filled pit of ignorance. I'd then suggest you took it elsewhere, since the welcome here shall remain warm (I briefly did think you were trying to fit in... I realise now you'd just nearly suckered me... not a mistake I shall repeat...) OH, and the hand wringing over 'two jobs so my wife can raise the kids...' well, tough... you chose the life, claiming it's 'The will o' GAWD!!!! GLORY!', so deal... it still doesn't make you any LESS intellectually stunted, nor less arrogant, nor less a drooling hypocrite. All the ' spirit this' and the 'spirit that' cant... Elmer Gantry isn't a bad simile... only you're after more than money... if it was money that motivated you then at least it would be a pure motive... this is more hearts and minds crap, preaching at the lurkers on the thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Doc, I agree it was a misunderstanding and it is forgotten. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Ruby, I have a pretty large library and am now finishing the formal study that I have wanted all my life complete with a wall of new bookcases. I love books and buy my share. I just do not support ministers who only share what they say they have received from the Lord unless you buy their books, CDs, or tickets to their seminars. When someone suggests that I read a spirutal teacher, my first question is "Can I read their books online". This doesn't mean I won't buy a hard cover copy of their book if I feel it fills a niche in my library. It just reveals to me their true spirituality and whether they are a hireling or a man or woman of God. Like I said to GH, this is the standard I use for Christian ministers who write books and I should not carry this over to those who do not claim to have received what they share from the Lord freely. Thanks for listening and sorry if I overreacted. John That's okay, John. I think we understand each other now. You won me over when you said I'm usually open-minded and non-judgmental because I didn't think I acted that way toward you. Books and education have given my life meaning like nothing else ever has. One person in real life who claims a very large and warm spot in my heart, and for whom I have much respect, is my thesis supervisor. He is both a rebel at heart and a devout Christian. He is open-minded and will discuss issues from the atheistic perspective as well as the Christian perspective, depending what is needed at the moment for me to learn what I'm trying to understand. He can also argue from a whole batch of different Christian perspectives but he knows exactly where he personally stands. And when it really comes down to his personal beliefs he will say, "I believe most of the Creed most days." As for myself, I'd just come through a very intense situation on a fundy forum that I didn't fully understand. I thought it was an appeal to the intellect yet that did not quite fit the context and people on here were warning me there was something more going on. Finally I was able to see it and came back to this thread fairly shaken up and somewhat disoriented. I just wanted to get back my balance. Attacking a Christian for whatever reason seemed like place to begin. Sorry you were the victim. The attack on you wasn't fair. I apologize. I read your post again. I understand what you're saying is that you like to know something about the quality and content of a book before you buy it, which means knowing something about the author. This sounds very much like my own values. Thanks for explaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 And as an aside Kratos hardly strikes me as a fundamentalist, maybe he should be downgraded to apologist? As near as I can tell he is a devout Kratoist. I had no idea "Kratos" meant anything. Just now I read the article in wikipedia. A Spartan God of War. Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Apt since Yahweh was just a Hittite war god who somehow got credited with everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I read your post again. I understand what you're saying is that you like to know something about the quality and content of a book before you buy it, which means knowing something about the author. This sounds very much like my own values. Thanks for explaining. So, Ruby, you're saying Crap head doesn't trust my intelligence to make decent book recommendations... Neat...not to mention a commitment to 'respect'... cool... can anyone tell me why he's worth the waste of a couple of gallons of polluted water and the carbon footprint of his troupe of offspring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Ruby, I fully undestand and building bridges is never easy. I hope we can grow as friends as we continue to take the time to consider what the other says especially when we are misunderstood. Grace and patience are not just Bible words, after all. LOL John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Plain English would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kratos Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 GH, I trust your intelligence just fine and I thanked you for the book list. I just want to know something about the man before I will open myself to their views. I consider it my perogative to set my own boundaries in what I read as you set yours. I will check out some of the writers you mentioned and thank you for the list. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 See... you could have said that up front... instead of gibberish about payment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I read your post again. I understand what you're saying is that you like to know something about the quality and content of a book before you buy it, which means knowing something about the author. This sounds very much like my own values. Thanks for explaining. So, Ruby, you're saying Crap head doesn't trust my intelligence to make decent book recommendations... Neat...not to mention a commitment to 'respect'... cool... can anyone tell me why he's worth the waste of a couple of gallons of polluted water and the carbon footprint of his troupe of offspring? I'm somewhat confused. I haven't been following your conversation with Kratos. I was speaking for myself only as regarded the misunderstanding between himself and myself. I'm sorry but I had no idea that implicates you in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 It's worth back tracking... He's really quite amusingly flip-flopping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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