Home Schooling

[R. S. Martin]

Taph, are the books available in libraries and bookstores so people can learn if they want to? I'm just curious how severely information is censored.

[hereticzero]

I also believe American history is limited and censored. If you want to learn history from the Native American point of view, which is not taught in high schools, you have to go to the book stores and find it yourself or the local library is they have any.

 

About the Russian kids and US history: Is anyone else aware of the secret Russian invasion that included US forces in the early 1900s? I first heard of this about 25 years ago. I still have trouble finding this story in libraries or in schools.

[hereticzero]

I found one website: http://accidentalrussophile.blogspot.com/2...n-invasion.html

 

'... we committed almost 13,000 troops to the invasion forces and that 275 Americans lost their lives on Russia soil.'

[Taphophilia]

Taph, are the books available in libraries and bookstores so people can learn if they want to? I'm just curious how severely information is censored.

 

Lies My Teacher Told Me. by James W Loewin

[Jubilant]

Another great historical read is A Peoples History of the United States: 1492-Present by Howard Zinn.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Locking a nation into permanent childhood

Las Vegas Review-Journal

by Vin Suprynowicz

 

"A letter-writer recently objected that I used great libertarian Rose

Wilder Lane as a 'sole source' for the fact that American schooling

was taken over, in the late 19th century, by statists enamored of the

Prussian compulsion model, aiming to create a docile peasant class by

crippling the American intellect -- making reading seem real hard, for

starters, by replacing the old system in which delighted kids learned

to combine the sounds of the Roman letters, with a perverted 'whole

word' method better suited to decoding hieroglyphics. In July 1991,

John Taylor Gatto, New York's Teacher of the Year, quit, saying he was

tired of working for an institution that crippled the ability of

children to learn. He explained why in an essay published that month

in The Wall Street Journal. Let's look at that essay, and see if we

can find our 'second source.'" (01/20/08)

 

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/13931197.html

[Grandpa Harley]

I'd agree with neoteny.

[pitchu]

Shortly after we began homeschooling our son and daughter, we got a call from a teacher at their school whom we didn't know. My defenses were firmly in place until I realized the nature of his call. In quiet tones, almost as if he expected the CIA was listening in and that he might have a price to pay for his insolence, he informed me that his children were homeschooled, too, and that he wished us good luck and hoped we would stick with it. "My wife and I didn't have kids," he said, "just in order to turn them over at the age of five to incompetent strangers."

[Taphophilia]

Taph, are the books available in libraries and bookstores so people can learn if they want to? I'm just curious how severely information is censored.

 

 

They should be. See if you have a lending library program in your area. If you do, your library will order the requested book from another library who has it.

 

Taph

[Jillian]

A few points but first a question. has "justsomeone" even commented on this thread? (couldn't see his name anywhere as I scanned through)

 

and taph wrote:

People from other countries know more about US history than most Americans do. The sad fact is that US history, as it is taught, is more a lesson in patriotism and heroification than actual history.

 

 

History is written for the audience it is intended for and to suit the needs(perhaps NECESSITIES) of the writers....

[SWIM]

A few points but first a question. has "justsomeone" even commented on this thread? (couldn't see his name anywhere as I scanned through)

 

No not yet, but I just talked to him in another thread and he says he will "check it out" so we shall see...

[R. S. Martin]

I also believe American history is limited and censored. If you want to learn history from the Native American point of view, which is not taught in high schools, you have to go to the book stores and find it yourself or the local library is they have any.

 

About the Russian kids and US history: Is anyone else aware of the secret Russian invasion that included US forces in the early 1900s? I first heard of this about 25 years ago. I still have trouble finding this story in libraries or in schools.

 

Are you talking about how the Americans fought against Lenin's Communist Party? I didn't know it was secret. I don't remember the details at all but I do remember from studying Lenin that the Americans refused to acknowledge his newly-minted country and that this caused serious problems. Truth be told, I don't remember if there was a physical invasion reported in the book I read or not but the bloodless take-over of the Russian government buildings was only the beginning. And I thought it would be The Victory.

 

Just now I came across something in the book Taph mentions "Lies My Teacher Told Me." by James W Loewen, page 23. Loewen says Woodrow Wilson was "sending secret monetary aid to the "White" side of the Russian civil war."

 

I have not been able to find any information on the author Loewen but for folks here, Loewen is a Russian Mennonite name common in this area where I live. Taph, it's spelled with an "e" and not "i" for second last letter, i.e. Loewen, not Loewin. That is important only if you want to look the book up on the internet, which I wanted to do.

[Taphophilia]

I have not been able to find any information on the author Loewen but for folks here, Loewen is a Russian Mennonite name common in this area where I live. Taph, it's spelled with an "e" and not "i" for second last letter, i.e. Loewen, not Loewin. That is important only if you want to look the book up on the internet, which I wanted to do.

 

Sorry Ruby, I should have looked up the spelling before I posted it.

[R. S. Martin]

No problem. It's a very familiar name to me so I was able to find it.

[justsomeone]

has "justsomeone" even commented on this thread? (couldn't see his name anywhere as I scanned through)

 

Hey Michael and all,

 

Yes, I homeschool as some of you know. You guys took off so fast that I am trying to read all that is in this thread already.

 

I'll start out by saying that I see pros and cons to both hs and the public brand. I don't know much about the private schools but of course some do sound very good but I assume they have their pros and cons too.

 

One thing I struggle with is that I wonder just how different the kids would have been if they went to public school. Mine are doing fine but??????

 

I also want to say that public school is a good baby sitter in some minds I think. In other words, home schooling is not chosen because it's easier to accomplish, I think overall it is much harder.

 

Obviously I am not highly educated at least according to some standards but I do believe in free thinking and fun. Of course we 'teach' responsibility and common sense.....can one teach these things?

 

I am still rushed but very interested in participating so I will be watching.

 

js

 

ps, Michael I wish I had something to copy and paste. Thanks for the lesson! Hey maybe I will anyway for practice......... Back to the top.

[Skiergirl24]

I think it is harmful. Kids need integration and socialization in order to survive in the real world. Yes, there are things in the public school system that I would not want my kids exposed to...but life is like that. You cannot shelter your children from everything. Kids need to learn how to resist temptation, how to deal with bullies, how to make friends. My cousin home-schools her 3 kids and they are wonderful, nice kids but they only socialize with other home-schooled kids (about 5 other ones). And as great as they are, they are odd. These kids are missing out on childhood! I have wonderful memories of class assemblies, classroom pranks, funny teachers, games played during recess, proms and dances etc. I think that removing kids from the mainstream public (or even private) school alienates them. From my experience, all home-schooled kids stick out like a sore thumb.

[RIPw4]

I think it is harmful. Kids need integration and socialization in order to survive in the real world. Yes, there are things in the public school system that I would not want my kids exposed to...but life is like that. You cannot shelter your children from everything. Kids need to learn how to resist temptation, how to deal with bullies, how to make friends. My cousin home-schools her 3 kids and they are wonderful, nice kids but they only socialize with other home-schooled kids (about 5 other ones). And as great as they are, they are odd. These kids are missing out on childhood! I have wonderful memories of class assemblies, classroom pranks, funny teachers, games played during recess, proms and dances etc. I think that removing kids from the mainstream public (or even private) school alienates them. From my experience, all home-schooled kids stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Im glad I am not the only one who feels this way

[sonyaj68]

I’ve always been against home school as a general rule, mainly because everyone I know who has taken part in it has had disastrous (in my opinion anyway) results. These are people in the town where I live. We have a good public school system here. Decent teacher to student ratio, terrific administration, and academically we are hard to beat If students take advantage of all the opportunities offered, they can graduate from high school as a college Sophomore due to the dual credit that is offered through a local Junior College Our superintendent (former now - he was snatched up by a larger school in the Dallas area) began a program partnering business leaders in the community with the school and the TEA was so impressed they’ve begun piloting it at other schools and plan to eventually use it state-wide/ We have two private schools here and they are both completely unacceptable unless, depending on which of the two schools you choose, you want your child to grow up to be a nut job who can’t carry on a conversation, read, or spell, or if you’d like them to grow up being one of those kids who think everyone wins and nobody loses and, as my older son put it once after a Pony League baseball game when one of the kid from the private school lost the game for us because he wouldn’t steal home and I asked my son if he felt bad, he said “No, he’s one of those goofy _________ (insert name of school) kids ho doesn’t know you’re supposed to try to win.†My point is that, unless there is a good reason (like an illness or if the family must travel extensively) AND if the parents are qualified and willing to devote the time and energy it takes, then people should not home school their children.

 

If we lived somewhere where the public school system was not acceptable, we’d either have to find a good private school or hire someone to home school our child (can you do that?) because Rick nor I are qualified nor do we have the patience, and to me the most important thing you must provide for your child is a good well-rounded education/

 

I have found the home schooled children I know are not well adjusted. Again, my scope of experience is based on the few people I know from here in my town. It reminds me of a great line from “Six Feet Under†when the new guy (now plays on “The Officeâ€) told the brothers he was home schooled, and one them said “You look a little home schooled.â€

[justsomeone]

I think it is harmful.

Do you think it is harmful for all or just some? Do you possibly see a need for some to be home schooled?

 

And as great as they are, they are odd.

Is odd wrong? At one time wasn't it odd for some people to free slaves?

 

I have wonderful memories of class assemblies, classroom pranks, funny teachers, games played during recess, proms and dances etc.

That's the rub for me too. I had a good experience with public schools.

 

But I do not think hs kids are generally removed from the mainstream public. It is more of an effort on the part of the parents to get the kids involved in mainstream public but it is done.

 

Like I said before, it is hard work. It is work we have put off on others and now may be too into our own lives (careers, free time or whatever) to have time to raise/educate our own children.

 

js

[MathGeek]

I'd like to ask of the parents that homeschool...how can you afford it?

 

My wife and I both work and we pull in less than $50K, which is enough to raise a kid on easily if it is strong and healthy. How does one do it with three kids and a single income? Or say, the mother stays home and owns a home business, how do you balance your time between your children and the activity that supplements your ability to be a homeschool parent?

 

For me, since we live in trying economic times (all the foreclosures, talk of a recession, many people work two jobs since the unemployment rate is so low), how do you do it? I am not condemning the choice you've made, I would like to know what part of American ingenuity you have that most people don't have.

[justsomeone]

I’ve always been against home school as a general rule, mainly because everyone I know who has taken part in it has had disastrous (in my opinion anyway) results.

You should be against it if that is all the evidence you have of hs but if you were really interested in it and you checked more widely you might find some very successful homeschoolers. And I say 'some' a bit modestly as I believe there are many success stories.

 

I like that 'You look a little homeschooled' comment. Funny.

 

I get bad looks from my wife when in front of others, my kids goof up or do or say something stupid, I look at the person who notices and slyly say "Homeschooled".

 

js

[Jubilant]

I think it is harmful. Kids need integration and socialization in order to survive in the real world.

 

Holy Shit!!! The real secret of why people home educate has been discovered! Yes, my life's goal and that of other home educators is to ensure that our children are incapable of surviving in the *real world*. Why, my children are 9 and 13 and I still wipe their asses when they do "big business" so that they'll only rely upon my husband and I. I never want them to leave or have jobs, my husband and I want them under our control FOREVER!

 

Let me see now about this "integration" issue. We have a 50 year old Lesbian across the street who my children like. Two neighbors to the left are Asians and we know them too. My neighbor to the right is a white family, who believe in God/Christ but are far from fundy. The neighbors to the right of them are black. We have an elderly man in our neighborhood who my children love and adore and go visit from time to time, and he does the same. My son's best friend is black and he is a Christian. My dd's best friend is white and is a non-Christian. Need I go on? Tell me how they know nothing of "integration."

 

You cannot shelter your children from everything.

 

Why not? When my husbands step-father and father and one of my dearest friends died, we didn't even tell them because we wanted to shelter them from the pain that people, GASP, DIE!!! Not.

 

Unless one lives in the boonies with no access to other people, they are not being "sheltered".

 

Kids need to learn how to resist temptation, ,

 

And no one in the school system fails to resist temptation because they've learned oh so well how to deal with it; I mean, damn, they've had what, 12 years experience in this area?

 

how to deal with bullies

 

Funny, regardless of where I've worked or many people that I know who work, bullies are a non-issue.

 

how to make friends

.

 

Most home schooled children that we come into contact with and that I've known over the years do know how to "make" friends. Do ALL public schooled children "know" how to make friends? No, they don't. If you rounded up all the nations home educated children, you'd probably see that percentage of them who do not make friends are equivalent to those in schools.

 

My cousin home-schools her 3 kids and they are wonderful, nice kids but they only socialize with other home-schooled kids (about 5 other ones).

 

Oh, so they are "socializing" and they are nice and wonderful and great but....

 

they are odd.

 

They are "odd" to you, why? How are they "odd"? Because they are nice and wonderful and great kids?

 

These kids are missing out on childhood!

 

They're missing out on a childhood that you are used to and accustomed to, and unless your cousin never takes them anywhere and the kids are made to sit and never play, they aren't missing out on their childhood, they're missing out on the childhood you think they should have.

 

I have wonderful memories of class assemblies, classroom pranks, funny teachers, games played during recess, proms and dances etc. I think that removing kids from the mainstream public (or even private) school alienates them. From my experience,

 

My children are having wonderful memories of being done with their school work within 2-4 hours and having a crap load of leisure time, going on nature trails, meeting with their father at lunch during the school day, playing games, playing with each other, playing with their friends, going to the beach on school days, unguided and unhindered field trips, skating around both inside and outside of the house, and enjoying their childhoods.

 

all home-schooled kids stick out like a sore thumb.

 

As someone whose actually known a variety of home educated children over the years and who gathers with other home educators on a weekly basis, only *some* stick out like a sore thumb. There are some children in school who stick out like a sore thumb. How do they stick out like a sore thumb to you?

 

BTW, most people we meet who have seen our children in action don't know that they are home schooled unless we tell them and because of our children's *socialization* skills, the way they interact with other children and adults, etc., we've actually inspired other people to want to home educate their children. Do you know *why*? The general comments are: they are so polite and well mannered; they look people in the eye when speaking to them; they engage in conversations on an adult level (or to whatever level the person they are speaking with is on); they listen, and so on and so forth...unlike the children they know who go to school. But we all know that there are many children in school who do the same thing and those people, like you, are making broad-based generalizations and basing their opinions on a few children they know...except on the opposite end of the scale, not in favor of public schooled children.

[SWIM]

 

The parent must keep in mind that they may not have had the same degree of education in each and every subject. It may become *overwhelming* for the parent to teach several different subjects, rather than just one, especially when home schooling high school aged children. When teaching more than one child, (this is for you, you know who you are )the parent must keep in mind the challenges of also teaching different grade levels.

 

This quote is from the OP. Justsomeone, this applies to YOU more so then anyone else here. Why? Because you say you have 11 kids with two more on the way.

 

Comments on that part of the op please?

[Jubilant]

I'd like to ask of the parents that homeschool...how can you afford it?

 

My DH is a Merchant Marine and pulls in around $70k per year. We have high speed internet, DirectTV, unlimited long-distance, we use our counties electricity savings plan (high, medium, and low times) which saves us money every month. Probably the biggest thing that we do is to not to keep up with all the latest/greatest technology and therefore our credit card debt is minimal and I buy groceries from Walmart...I'd probably save more if I used coupons. We are able to afford field trips because we usually purchase a yearly family plan, for instance: Last year I bought one year pass to an awesome science museum just an hour away that has new displays quarterly, it only costs $50. We do not need to buy school clothes, which if memory serves correctly, is quite a big expense for many families. A lot of the fun things we do are inexpensive or cost nothing so that isn't an issue either. We do not force sports or clubs or anything of that nature, but the kids can choose to do those things if they wish; in which case, we'd cut down on eating out in order to be able to afford what they wanted to do. DH is a musician so there are guitars galore and a keyboard at their disposal regularly as are lessons, if our children desire to be taught. For the most part, they enjoy just goofing around on the instruments but our ds plays the guitar beautifully. DH is also an artist and so is our DD...thank goodness paper is cheap! Also, we make do with what we have and try to only buy on an "as needed" basis. Our children have nice and updated clothing, we just always try to hit the sales at Sears, JCPenney, Old Navy, and so on.

 

We could have more money to spend each month and live high on the hog but we put aside money in a 401k plan and we also have a 10 year mortgage that we pay bi-weekly which means that our home will be paid for in 7 1/2 years, we only have 5 1/2 left. By choosing that type of mortgage, our payments are high but the freedom soon to come is worth it.

 

If I had to go to work, I would but we are not in need of extra money right now and do not feel that it is worth giving up our current way of life in order to have more "stuff."

[justsomeone]

I'd like to ask of the parents that homeschool...how can you afford it?

Good question. I get frustrated every time I pay our property taxes as a chunk of that goes for the public school system but I justify it that not all are ready to homeschool so it is good that the government is there to raise our kids. But why can't those who use the system pay for it? Where I live we don't get any assistance for hs and that is ok with me.

 

As I keep saying, it is not easy to hs. It is much easier to put the kids in a baby sitting enviornment. Man, I and especially my wife, could not even imagine what we would do with all the time we would have if we sent the kids away. Don't get me wrong. I know parents who use the public school system are busy you must make sure you are busy doing something more important than raising your own kids.

 

OK, Mathgeek now let me try to answer your question.

 

The same way I can afford my twinkies and car payments or my more pleasurable things. I figure out what is most important and incorporate these important things into the budget.

 

We do it with 11 kids and I make much less than you.

 

My wife runs a home business WITH the kids. This is homeschooling at it's finest.

 

The kids earn money from this business and it teachs them much For example, they have learned that any profit they make is divided up into 4 catagories........They keep 1/4th for themselves to do with as they want to. 1/4th goes into savings 1/4th is for giving to someone in need. 1/4th goes towards the materials for the business.