Home Schooling

[Japedo]

When our oldest was in school, it used to kill us and him that he had to spend so much time doing "school". In second grade, he'd get on the bus at 6:30, start school at 8, arrive home at 4pm, eat dinner, and then immediately begin on his homework. This allowed very little time for him to enjoy his childhood and very little family time as well.

That's our situation. Besides they also have homework over the weekend, about 4 hours extra. One of my kids even had a project over Christmas. My kids work as hard as me at times. Some of them still sit in front of their books when I get back from work! And yet I left for work after they went to school. Something is wrong with that picture...

 

Same here Hans, Jub.

 

By the time the kids are done with homework, sports, band, drama and the rest of their full schedules it's way past 8 or 9 and sometimes goes as late as 11 PM. Basketball season, the bus doesn't even get home til 10-11 at night on away games. During school we only allow the kids to work their jobs (they aren't required to have) during the weekends, they have far to much on their plate as it is. On the up side, all grades must be at least a C average in order of the kids to play in school sports, it's school policy. If the kids (all kids not just mine) want to continue to do sports the school pushes them to study. My kids also have very little free time.

[Ouroboros]

I have to ask Hans - delinquents and actors children is this a common classification?

It was my little twist to it. Basically ACCESS stands for something like Actors California Child Educational School System (I think, or whatever). It started a long time ago for the education of actors kids that had to be on the set and couldn't go to a regular school. It's based on home and self-study. It expanded to include kids that were considered misfits and couldn't go to regular public school. Now, it also included kids like mine, that don't fit in because they just don't do their homework or turn it in on time. We try our best to stay on top, and it works for my younger kids, but when they turn 15-16 they start demanding their own control over their time and homework, and for both my oldest it turned out bad, since they didn't do their homework at all. But lo and behold, when they went into ACCESS and had to study at home (like homework), now they do it... ? I don't get it. They go to 1 hour class a week, and study at home, part time, and work part time, and they do better... All I can say, my kids needs a different approach to learning, which the public school does not provide. We have no time to engage in home schooling on our own, even though I suspect my kids would do 1000 times better if we did. But the step is too great. We have thought about it though. If my next son (the third one) starts failing too, I might consider it really seriously and take them all out. But I asked them, and the girls don't want to. They like their friends. *sigh* What to do?...

[Ouroboros]

And isn't it so that American kids barely compare to other countries? I think school is a perfect example of "work harder, but not smarter", which in the long run will ruin our future. We're running the resources dry.

[Jubilant]

I think however when you go to College and higher school they learn to think for themselves.

 

Isn't it sad though that many (not all) have to wait until college to learn how to think? Damn, I wish I could find that link from either MSNBC or FoxNews that reported last year about the majority of college freshman having to be "taught" how to think. This absolutely blows my mind as children can and do think on their own from the infant stages. I'd say that it is probably around year 4-5 in school when they are beaten down to the point of breaking when it comes to thinking (but this certainly doesn't apply to ALL children)for themselves. Even when they are babies, they are determined to hold that bottle, roll over, scoot, crawl, stand, take steps, walk, climb, etc. and they WANT to do it for themselves which is NATURAL for humans. Suddenly at age 5-6 that isn't good enough anymore, now one suddenly needs to step in and "teach them" the basics of how to conquer the rest of life?

 

Our children wanted to read because they saw us reading, they wanted to know what the words on signs were or in their favorite books. Z was doing fine until we put him in school and then reading became a chore and something he hated whereas our daughter never had it shoved down her throat and still, to this day, loves to read. Most of their basic math has been learned from helping me cook/bake or on their own, playing games like Monopoly and Yahtzee, playing store, playing restaurant, video games, helping with bills, discussions about credit cards, mortgages, etc. I do not *teach* them history but I do scour books to ensure accuracy and we always have discussions and watch the history channel, historical movies, etc., etc. This morning our dd read about the plague in her history book and decided that "Ring-Around-The-Rosie" is a bit disturbing to gather hands with others while laughing and smiling in circle, lol. Our son read about Ulysses S. Grant and then told me everything that he had learned.

 

 

Homework should be to help the student get a deeper understanding of the topic, or to catch up, not to be the core of the education,

 

Agreed. Is your son doing better now that he is in a different program?

 

 

 

because this only show that the teachers don't teach, they're just baby-sitters.

 

In all fairness, there are several reasons for that...1) it is because many teachers are having to deal with spending quite a bit of their one hour time allotment (despite the children in their class having excellent training in the department of socialization ;-) ) in classroom management. (2) Because they have to take attendance and manage the children who haven't quite mastered their proper socialization techniques (in quite a few cases, even in the high school years) this leaves just enough time for a quick review of the previous days lesson and little time for the new one. (3) Teachers have no choice (unless they fight to change current standards) but to teach what the school says they have to teach, which in most cases, is for some meaningless test.

 

When you factor the above in, it is no wonder that children are loaded down with home work. I feel sorry for teachers, as many are unable to teach creatively due to the restrictions placed upon them by the schools. My mothers best friend was a teacher and loved her job up until about the time that "No Child Left Behind" became standard. She used to be creative and her class children loved her and they had a great time...she quit two years ago when a female student punched her in the gut, it was the final straw...she noticed the behavioral changes became more drastic when students were bored to tears with a lame and basic curriculum.

[Ouroboros]

Agreed. Is your son doing better now that he is in a different program?

He sure does. And it leaves time for him to work for me and make money.

 

I feel sorry for teachers, as many are unable to teach creatively due to the restrictions placed upon them by the schools.

Yes. In all this, I don't blame the teachers. They do what they can, and they to have to do what they're told. It's a top-down hierarchial (patriarchial) master-slave system that doesn't lead to improvements or progress, but rather stagnation. America will lose in the international market, or we have to start importing skilled, smart and creative people, just because we have ruined our resources.

 

My mothers best friend was a teacher and loved her job up until about the time that "No Child Left Behind" became standard. She used to be creative and her class children loved her and they had a great time...she quit two years ago when a female student punched her in the gut, it was the final straw...she noticed the behavioral changes became more drastic when students were bored to tears with a lame and basic curriculum.

No wonder. It did seem to get worse after the No child left behind standard. Basically what they changed is that, to make sure no one is "left behind", lower the standards according to the bell curve. Most people can learn how to obey, but not everyone can excel in learning (since it sometimes depends on talents). They moved the focus of what the school is testing, just to make sure it looks better on paper. Very nice. A trickery to win political points and destroy the future.

[justsomeone]

do you care to tell us how you teach evolution? Do you stick with ID creationalism, and young earth stuff? Also do you pepper all your lessons with biblical things?

 

Let me be a bit vague at first here. I really like the multiple option choice factor myself. I try to teach all sides of any given subject. Sure I have my biases but I do put out all the information that I can. I don't make the kids choose, I tend to let them work it out for themselves. What I like best about this approach is that if the kids are interested then I get lots of questions and if they are not then I let it go for awhile. I justify this approach two ways.......If there is a God this God can handle this technique without having to condemn me to hell forever for being so 'loose' and I leave the results up to the kids in the end.

 

I've never struggled with creationism verses evolution myself. I see both at work.

 

js

[webmdave]

We homeschooled our kids through the sixth grade. (I was a complete fundie then). Every year we had them professionally tested on the SAT and the ACT, so we could measure their progress. They always scored toward the top. After sixth grade, they attended a fundie school for a couple of years, followed by a private Catholic school. Then, they both finished out at public high school. They were both straight A students. One of them attended college full time during the senior year in high school. Both are in college today, and both are regularly on the dean's list.

 

Home school or public school are both fine and dandy as far as I can tell. It really all depends on the kids and the parents. Some kids will learn no matter what. Others will barely get by no matter what.

[GypsyMoon]

Michael,

 

I am homeschooled presently, and Mum and Dad think it is really good. Now, I totally disagree with them.

 

1) I am always either doing chores for mum, or my school work.

 

2) Nothing gets done when my brother is annoying and distracting me.

 

3) Mum insists on knowing what I am doing at every point in a day.

 

4) We do state school curriculum through the Correspondence School, but, I am not allowed to ring my tutors unless I ask Mum first.

 

5) Mum uses it to her advantage, and gets me to do jobs during the day, when I have school work to do.

 

 

Now, this is complete fundy homeschooling, and we are also required to do a certain amout of Bible study, which I manage to wiggle out of. But, Mum and Dad are not interested in letting me read anything in my work that is a little violent, or what they consider not Xtian, and I am highschool level. We are also taught that evolution is a total bag of rubbish, and that the only way we got here was because god created us.

 

Now, despite all that, I am an atheist, and beleive in evolution, simply because I do not see any scientific evidence in regard to creation, nor have I seen any evidence in regard to god.

 

If a child can think for themselves, and learn to live inside their brain (which is what I do) they can often find what they really beleive... but, I was certainly not prepared to beleive something because my parents told me so.

[Jubilant]

Wow Grease Monkey, how are you managing to sneak on this evil site?! LOL...I'm guessing that you know how to hide your internet tracks, in which case, kudos.

 

I'm glad that you don't believe despite being home educated by fundamentalists. Quite a few of my friends in high school had very strict parents like that and they were constantly doing chores, carrying for siblings, always being "spied" on, etc.

 

Our children have a choice to go to school every year but they opt not to. We don't spy on them, our 13yo has a MySpace account (we lied on his age) and we don't monitor or tell him who his friends can/cannot be. How old are you? If you have a MySpace account, perhaps you guys can connect, if you'd like. When our son was hanging with boys in our neighborhood who did drugs, we didn't tell him that he couldn't hang with them, he chose not to hang with them of his own volition. Lastly, aside from ds emptying the dishwasher, and taking out the garbage once a week, we aren't chore hounds. However, my parents split the following chores amongst five children and we were public schooled...dishes, laundry, dusting, vacuuming, mowing the lawn, pulling weeds, etc., etc.

 

Keep your head up and stay strong. Do your parents get you out of the house at all to interact with others or are you confined and allowed to have no fun?

 

Thanks for sharing.

[SWIM]

Michael,

 

I am homeschooled presently, and Mum and Dad think it is really good. Now, I totally disagree with them.

 

1) I am always either doing chores for mum, or my school work.

 

2) Nothing gets done when my brother is annoying and distracting me.

 

3) Mum insists on knowing what I am doing at every point in a day.

 

4) We do state school curriculum through the Correspondence School, but, I am not allowed to ring my tutors unless I ask Mum first.

 

5) Mum uses it to her advantage, and gets me to do jobs during the day, when I have school work to do.

 

 

Now, this is complete fundy homeschooling, and we are also required to do a certain amout of Bible study, which I manage to wiggle out of. But, Mum and Dad are not interested in letting me read anything in my work that is a little violent, or what they consider not Xtian, and I am highschool level. We are also taught that evolution is a total bag of rubbish, and that the only way we got here was because god created us.

 

Now, despite all that, I am an atheist, and beleive in evolution, simply because I do not see any scientific evidence in regard to creation, nor have I seen any evidence in regard to god.

 

If a child can think for themselves, and learn to live inside their brain (which is what I do) they can often find what they really beleive... but, I was certainly not prepared to beleive something because my parents told me so.

 

 

Hey GM that's great that you are still able to think for yourself, you must have a very strong mind.

 

You say you believe in evolution. I am curious though, did you come up with that on your own? How did you even hear the data on it? Did they actually teach you evolution or did you sneak learn it on the internet?

 

What is their teachings like? Bible spin on everything? I ask because reading justsomeone's response, not ALL xtians teach exlusive creationism but add evolution too. I can't help but wonder as well, if the homes that teach both EMPHASIS consiously or subconsiously, the method of creation they feel bias toward?

[Kalidasa]

How many of us were public or privately schooled our whole life and still ended up BRAINWASHED?

*puts hand up*

 

I went to public school for kindergarten to Year 5 (ages 5.5 - 11.5), and private school for Year 6 to Year 12 (11.5 - 18.5). I also attended public school in 2006 and 2007 (Year 11 and 12 again) to get my Higher School Certificate a second time. Though I was lucky in that I managed to escape being too badly brainwashed.

 

I sometimes wish my parents had homeschooled me. I was bullied throughout junior primary and the one year of senior primary I spent at public school, I was harrassed for being an atheist throughout my final three years of private school, I didn't have my exam anxiety picked up on until I went back to public school in '06 (when it really should have been recognised as soon as it first cropped up, when I was in Year 8), and I was bored stiff with the work I was given at school. I know that what I experienced at school shaped who I am today, but it did more than that - it changed me, and not for the better. Had I been educated by my parents, even if only to the end of Year 10 (seeing as that's as far as either of my parents got with school), I'd have been taught to my intelligence level, I would never have been bullied, and I would be a much different person. I'd be much happier, I think. Hell, I might even have made it to university when everyone else my age did. As it stands, I'm only just starting this year.

 

As to my opinion on homeschooling, I think it can be a positive and rewarding experience. If I ever change my mind and decide I actually do want kids, I'll homeschool them. I don't want any kids I might have going through what I did.

[GypsyMoon]

Hey GM that's great that you are still able to think for yourself, you must have a very strong mind.

 

You say you believe in evolution. I am curious though, did you come up with that on your own? How did you even hear the data on it? Did they actually teach you evolution or did you sneak learn it on the internet?

 

What is their teachings like? Bible spin on everything? I ask because reading justsomeone's response, not ALL xtians teach exlusive creationism but add evolution too. I can't help but wonder as well, if the homes that teach both EMPHASIS consiously or subconsiously, the method of creation they feel bias toward?

 

Hi Michael,

 

I sneak learned evolution on the internet... and it tis Bible spin on everything!!

 

GM

[Manditag in AK]

I have been researching homeschooling for my 3 year old (I know, it's still a ways off) primarily because my state is ranked at 41 for the US...

 

And I can't help but to add, in regard to the PP who said homeschooled kids shouldn't be homeschooled because they ended up odd.....with the entire rest of the world outclassing us educationally, who says a little oddity isn't in fact a GOOD thing?

 

[Amethyst]

I think home schooling can work. It just depends on it being done right, as opposed to being used to brainwash a child with religion. Home schooling can actually work well for gifted kids.

 

As for brainwashing, my parents sent me to a Lutheran school through sixth grade, where I was completely brainwashed.

[♦ nivek ♦]

UK: Children tested to destruction

Independent [uK]

 

"Primary school pupils have to deal with unprecedented levels of

pressure as they face tests more frequently, at a younger age, and in

more subjects than children from any other country, according to one

of the biggest international education inquiries in decades. The

damning indictment of England's primary education system revealed that

the country's children are now the most tested in the

world." (02/07/08)

 

http://tinyurl.com/yqrkan

[Grandpa Harley]

They've been saying that since I was in my hell hole... but it's so heavily politicised now, the job is fucked...

[Artiss]

My personal experiences with public school (which actually weren't too long ago) were hell. The school I grew up in was very violent, and to be honest flat out ridiculous. I felt the majority of my teachers were not qualified to be teaching me. Even in Jr. High (7th and 8th grades) we had daily metal detectors because fights were a weekly thing. I'm not talking about little girl fights, I mean serious gang fights- they start scrapping in the hall , you get the hell out of the way. Sexual harassment was a daily issue, not just catcalls but things I will not repeat here, things that scared me (and thats not easy). On the flip side of that coin, I'm an admitted slacker and hermit so I managed to get my mom to order me some home school books- you have to get the "State Approved" versions for them to count and let you graduate one day. Even back when I believed all that stuff these booklets were ridiculous. They were basically just bible stories , way below the level they should have been for my age. Not much education to them at all, anyone who was brought up on that education alone would indeed be a stunted individual in more ways than one.

 

Even having done both ways I couldn't tell you what was worse. I guess it would be up to the person to weigh out the lesser of the two evils... Aint parenthood grand?

[Comanche]

I can only speak from my own experiences, but I'm homeschooled right now and I love it. We don't have to use state-approved material here, so we just buy the same textbooks that they use in the public school from eBay and Amazon. The school I went to previously was pretty violent as well, and I didn't feel I was getting anything out of it, so we decided I'd learn more staying home than wasting my time being scared to just walk down the hall between classes. I think it really depends on the student - I know people who hate it and I know people who wouldn't trade it for anything. I just make sure to get my work done in the morning and chill out in the afternoon. My parents aren't terribly concerned with it, they just tell me what to do and leave me to my own devices for the day.

[Guest debtor2grace]

Every family's experience is different, I suppose...I was homeschooled for 7 long years, grades 3rd through 9th and am probably the worse for it. I was an eccentric, standoffish and 'weird' child to begin with, and the consistent social isolation did not suit me well. To this day I see myself as relationally / emotionally crippled and struggle to catch up with my peers in this regard. To make matters worse, my mother was dealing with a mood disorder / depression throughout my childhood and early teens and it was not easy being around her all the time.

 

Academically, I came off in fine form. Learned to be a self-didact and it's served me well in high school and undergraduate.

 

I would never homeschool my children. I think I missed something that I wouldn't want them to miss.

[Grandpa Harley]

the term in 'auto-didact', I believe...

[DoubleDee]

Personally, I don't believe homeschooling is harmfull. What is harmful are the rightwing (or insert any extrememist here as well) nutjobs who homeschool their kids to keep them from being influenced by our ebil society. Often they then rely on very biased curriculum to teach there kids.

My oldest has just gotten his Honors GED, he is 16 and will be starting college soon. An Honors GED is well above average and better than 95% of highschool graduates who take the test. Yes, he was homeschooled on and off as I deemed necessary not the government. I homeschooled him both as a Christian and as an Athiest and damn proud of him and myself for doing what I needed to do as a parent for the best interest of my son. I don't care if others like homeschooling or not and I hope to GAWD I don't have to homeschool my two youngest... hehe

[SWIM]

Bumping this old thread because the topic has been re-opened in the den. Might serve some purpose in the current discussion.

[Jubilant]

Every family's experience is different, I suppose

 

Right...just like every family whose children attend public or private school have different experiences.

 

...I was homeschooled for 7 long years, grades 3rd through 9th and am probably the worse for it. I was an eccentric, standoffish and 'weird' child to begin with, and the consistent social isolation did not suit me well. To this day I see myself as relationally / emotionally crippled and struggle to catch up with my peers in this regard. To make matters worse, my mother was dealing with a mood disorder / depression throughout my childhood and early teens and it was not easy being around her all the time.

 

Perhaps the fact that you were home schooled for 1/2 of your childhood education had something to do with it but you were also public schooled for 1/2 (if you went to PreK) of your childhood. Maybe your parents decided to home educate you beginning with third grade because you were not fairing well academically or socially earlier on, KWIM? There are a lot of parents whose children go to public school who suffer as your mother did and I would also like to mention that there are A LOT of public schooled children who are emotionally/relationally *crippled* despite having gone to school their entire childhood.

 

My point is that you are who you are despite your circumstances. Some people are outgoing and others are not. Some people are weird and others are not...the difference is, when a child ends up like you did, the blame is placed on almost the entire home schooling community and it is complete bull. Doing so is irrational and also ignores the anti-social behavior of many public schooled children...who is to blame for that?

 

Our two children are completely different yet both are well off socially and they are not in any organized activities. Our now 13yo son was schooled from PreK-3rd grade and was always on the not so outgoing side. Our now 10yo daughter has never been to school and is outgoing. Most would say that our dd is outgoing because that is just the way she is, whereas they may *blame* us home educating for our son not being as outgoing. Our children speak and interact with children of all ages and when they are speaking with adults they listen and look them in the eye and do not always focus the conversation on self...same goes with many, but not all schooled children. I cannot tell you how many schooled teens I have met over the years who are not capable of carrying on adult conversations because it is always about them; but, I have met schooled teens who are capable of listening and conversing.

 

I would never homeschool my children. I think I missed something that I wouldn't want them to miss.

 

Or, you may have missed having a miserable time in school. This is another area that bothers me when it comes to beefs with home schooling. What about prom? Not everyone in school goes to the prom. What about the homecoming? See prom. What about those fantastic childhood memories? Not all schooled children have fond memories of being stuffed in a classroom for eight ours a day with their peers. Not all schooled children participate in extra-curricular activities or play sports. My children may not have those memories but here is what they have thus far: Being finished with their *school* within 2-4 hours a day and having the rest of day to do as they wish. Playing outside with each other and their parents. Doing nothing. Doing things alone. Being alone in their thoughts and not depending on others to entertain them. Spending each Thursday at the park, beach, or field trips, bowling, etc. with friends and doing the same other days of the week with me. Week night sleep overs that end up all nighters. Meeting with their Dad at the park for lunch during the weekdays and throwing around the football or meeting him up at a restaurant for lunch. Spending hours studying or reading or observing things that matter to them. Visiting an elderly man in the neighborhood. Walking their dog and playing with our other pets consisting of four cockatiels (two of which were bred by our first male and female), two cats, and a Chilean Rose-Hair Tarantula. Rescuing injured birds and taking them to the nearest wildlife sanctuary. Saving geckos and/or eastern glass lizards from our cats. Observing nature whenever and however they wish.

 

Each year I ask our children if they want to go to school to which our 10yo replies, "Are you kidding? I love being able to play and do whatever I want when I want. I have enough friends and see them plenty." Our 13yo says, "No, Mom, I like being home schooled and having all this freedom." So, maybe they are missing out on school memories but there are some kids in public or private school who would love to have memories like our children are having.

 

I am sorry you had a bad experience, but like I said before, you may have very well turned with the same problems had you been schooled the whole time.

[L.B.]

Bollock to limiting freedom... If I thought the govt qualified to judge, then I'd welcome it... however, since I trust none of them to be able to judge the fitness of people to raise pigs, let alone kids, I'd prefer them to keep their nose out of my genetics...

 

Gramps, I just said the same thing to my wife last night as she worried about the stricter standards in our new home state regarding homeschooling. (BTW, I was pro-homeschooling before I lived as xtian, simply because there are historical and social facets to the history of our world that the PS books don't and won't touch.)

 

You just made me want to shout and cry all at the same time. You rock.

[MesaGman]

My brother's Girlfriend was homeschooled, she's a math wiz, and sexy, lucky him, and she has many friends... So it depends on the personality of the student, of how socially developed as he or she would get....

 

I was a loner in public school, so being around people is not necessary for the development of personality.