Manditag in AK Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I am so excited right now, I know I haven't posted much but I've been reading a lot and am about a month into the deconversion process... Tithing was always big where I am, it was considered a surefire way to abundance. Well, Almost immediately after I stopped believing (and giving), 2 things happened-my finances hit rock bottom because of all the money caught up in going to the church, and almost immediately after that-when I started being more accountable for my spending-I heard about the 800 dollar check that the US gov't has been talking about sending out, the money that the Alaska legislature is talking about sending out, my husband got a promotion, and then after that his on call pay was raised so that in the last month our base pay has gone up 600 dollars! I don't know, you'd think that wouldn't happen, that I might feel a little more smited or something, and I know it was more the result of timing, luck, and hard work on my husbands part, but it also emphasizes to me that there is good outside of Christianity. (This is with my mom asking if I have been looking at any 'good' sites to balance out the fact that I'm going on THIS board. ) Did any of you experience any of these 'backward proofs' against christianity after you started moving away from it? Oh, and since this is the first topic I've started-Thank you so much to everyone and this site....it's great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well, if this is your first official topic then, welcome! I do believe that tithing simply makes people more careful with their spending. Much like people who regularly give to charity. They seem to be much more money-wise than a lot of us average spenders. As for "backward proofs", yeah...I deconverted, left my wife (though, technically, I was forced out due to deconversion) and had nowhere to go. I went to HR and arranged to have $1200 in holiday pay advanced to me (the company doesn't give advances...) and still ended up being slightly shy of funds for DD and rent on an apartment. Wasn't sure what to do. Checked my bank account...checked my maxxed out Visa statement...they'd raised my limit $500 that day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 A christian once said that my first two had "issues" because god was testing me to see how loyal I was, and now that satan has me, things are going well so I will stay on satans side. Don't ask. Oh, don't be shocked at that one. I've heard similar notions preached from the pulpit...to the point of, "if you don't have trouble in your life you obviously aren't causing the devil enough trouble." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Tithing is 100% mumbo jumbo, in my opinion. My wife and I have had arguments about whether we should give 10% off the GROSS or the NET of our income. And even though my wife believes in it whole-heartedly, she's going to have to give the 10% off her paycheck (gross or net) because the church ain't gettin' another penny from me. And she's welcome to do that. I've mentioned before that the initial catalyst for my loss of faith and belief was the ineffectiveness of prayer. To put it simply, I saw no results or I saw basic probability. That got me asking questions. The tithing... well, we were faithful with the tithe and also with offerings and I never witnessed the window of Heaven open up and pour out a blessing at all, much less one we couldn't contain. And, it appears that none of my friends have, either. Nothing more than just another empty promise of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manditag in AK Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share Posted January 26, 2008 Thanks for all the responses, it's interesting to hear how it panned out for everyone else. I don't know, I think I would haul off and smack someone if they attributed something like that to God, and that's even before I converted. Some people can be terribly insensitive. I do think the principle behind the idea of tithing is a sound one-every action has an equal and opposite reaction-you give good, you get good (even if it's emotional). But as far as a God principle goes, it certainly doesn't hold it's own on the getting part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I was a heavy giver, but almost ended in bankrupcy. After my de-conversion somehow my economy became better... Btw, tithing does make people rich, but not the person who gives, but the person who takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I've never heard of anyone getting rich from tithing. I am sure there are the few people who do well financially who might say the Lard is blessing them ten fold for their tithes, but the vast majority of people in church on any given Sunday who are tithing are just average folks who might be struggling just to pay their bills and make ends meet. It's especially hard for seniors who live on a fixed income, yet they are often the most dilligent tithers unfortunately. Yet none of those people are getting rich, they continue to struggle month after month, year after year. Tithing is just another expense just like paying the phone bill or car payment, or any other bill.... so people try and factor it into their budget. But it is NOT a bill.....so why pay if you don't have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Tithing...LOL....oh, that was one of the issues that led to my deconversion. First, even as a Christian, I knew the New Testament NEVER commanded Christians to tithe. You can NEVER find anywhere in the Pauline Epistles where a Christian was EVER commanded to tithe, give 1 in 10, 1/10, or any other set amount. If you read Hebrews Chapter 9 which defines the New Testament, the entire book of Galatians, all through the book of Romans, it NEVER says Christains are EVER under ANY part of the Law and that included tithing. Paul even said in the book of Galatians, if you keep one portion of the Law, you must keep the whole law. In the book of James, it says that to brake one part of the law is to brake the whole law. When I pointed that out to many Christians, they would disagree with me but offer no logical rebuttal. In accordance with Old Testament teaching, the tithe is to be given off the increase (i.e. EXTRA) anyway. So for a church to say that giving 10% of one's income is Biblical is NOTHING BUT A LIE. The church is also quick to remind people that New Testament Christians gave EVERYTHING to the church. The church also says that tithing is a sacrifice. Being raised a farm boy, I know that a sacrifice means something's getting slaughtered. When that happens, something is BEING slaughtered and someone is DOING the slaughtering. I know which end of the stick I don't want to be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outback Jack Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Paul even said in the book of Galatians, if you keep one portion of the Law, you must keep the whole law. In the book of James, it says that to brake one part of the law is to brake the whole law. Burned, I'd like to add this point to my own list of arguments, but I'm having some trouble finding and understanding. I searched for "law" in Galatians and found 3:17-26 (give or take). Is this to what you were referring? If so, could you translate it a bit for me? I've never been able to read Old English very well, but I seem to be reading it as JC being a new law. I also searched in James, but could not find anything like your reference. Could I bother you to pinpoint your references, please? (If not, I'll live ) Thanks in advance, OBJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outback Jack Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Just what I was needing! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Of course tithing makes folks rich... You never saw Haggard on a bike, did you? And who else can afford meth and hookers without a life of crime yet only works one day a week? And the Catholic and Orthodox Churches... you don't get building like THAT being poor... and the money comes from the rubes who go on a regular basis... and the most money comes from the poorest of parishoners... and Mother Teresa - handled something like the gross national product of Ireland in her life... Gotta love tithing... So, tithing DOES work... but it only swells church coffers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outback Jack Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Burnedout, I think you're brushing up against some other questions I've had. I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll ask them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvy Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 i always tithed 1/10 of my income, except when i was getting dissillusioned with particular churches ( i went thru a lot of churches) and would give that money away instead to someone or orgnaization i considered a good cause. i always felt that God blessed me for doing it. when i stopped church a couple of months ago i felt strange not having to do it, weird. i still feel like i should continue giving money away, but if i cant afford it i wont. i still have a strong belief that i should help others, whether God exists or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'm surprised no one has mentioned Annaias and Sapphia... Acts 5:1-11... For god so loved money he killed people who didn't give enough and had his henchmen sling them into a shallow grave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Fever Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Btw, tithing does make people rich, but not the person who gives, but the person who takes. And how! Check out Paula White's show on TBN. It seems "tithes and offerings" aren't enough - now she's pushing "First Fruits". Start out the new year by giving a day, a week, or a month's salary to God (but make that check payable to "Paula White Ministries"). Of course, Paula gives a month of her own salary,too. (I wonder if that's before or after the Mercedes payment comes out? And her divorce from Randy can't be cheap, either - anyone know if it's final yet?) A few others have latched onto this gimmick, too - Mike Murdock, for one. (But how I miss Robert Tilton - he had 'em all beat, with his "thousand dollar vow of faith")! Just the curse of being an early riser - not much on the tube but infomercials and TV preachers! If you want a real hoot, check out Kerney Thomas at 4 a.m. EST on BET. It's a laugh a minute, except when you think about all the poor, uneducated folks getting taken by this idiot! I guess God can heal all sorts of invisible ailments, but can't do anything about Kerney's receding hairline or his eyesight (now and then you'll see him wearing glasses). You'd think when God was fixing somebody's back problem or healing their cancer, he could take care of their obesity and give 'em a few teeth while he was at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 This is what you get if you fuck with Baby Jesus Cos for him, it's 'Keep the love and show me the fucking money' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpcobe Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I don't remember her name, but I'm thinking of the really old lady on TBN--I always called her "Miss Piggy." Anyway, looks to me like tithing got her a whole new set of skin, hair, eyelashes, finger nails, etc. . .obviously at a discount, but new nonetheless. Yikes--now that lady is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabin Fever Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I don't remember her name, but I'm thinking of the really old lady on TBN--I always called her "Miss Piggy." Anyway, looks to me like tithing got her a whole new set of skin, hair, eyelashes, finger nails, etc. . .obviously at a discount, but new nonetheless. Yikes--now that lady is scary. Miss Piggy??!! I damn near pissed my pants when I read that! Gotta be Jan Crouch you're talking about. Did she ever NOT look scary? What the hey - Tammy Faye is no more - somebody's gotta carry on the tradition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Once Tammy Faye got out from under the Bakker thumb she looked a lot less like a Louisiana Madame... Anyone Know if Ron Jeremy turned up to her funeral? Unlikely friends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts