Unbelievable

[Mandatory Chaos]

I received this e-mail from my dad tonight. We were having a debate on some evolution topics and decided to send this e-mail instead of responding to some points I made. He presumes to know so much about my life and my christian experiences that it just pisses me off. As well as the complete arrogance of thinking he knows the absolute truth and then resorts to this when having a rational debate.

 

 

**************************************************************

 

Yesterday I sent you my testimony to touch on some of the circumstances that brought me to God. I just wanted to follow up with some issues that I hope will get to the heart of the matter. I know you’re a man now and I know you will make your own choices and will have to live with those choices good or bad. I can’t change your mind; I can only give you the best that I have to offer.

 

Since we began this discussion we have focused only on the material and philosophical issues. Since this is a discussion about God it seems we are missing far too much by leaving out the spiritual aspect. God is spirit so we need to understand what spirit is. Bear with me if I touch on things you already know but this is the ground work; I’m not trying to insult your intelligence. The word “spirit†in Hebrew and Greek mean wind or air. The picture is something that is invisible, powerful and follows its own direction. Air and wind are physical properties but they are probably the best things to illustrate to the common man the concept of another dimension that has a direct impact on this material world.

 

Therefore, if you approach the knowledge of God with the natural mind you will never really understand. Just as one needs SCUBA gear to enter the underwater world, we need spiritual equipping to enter the spiritual realm; it’s not a natural place for us to be. Another way to say this is you must be born again. This is why Jesus said that you need to come as a little child. A little child is humble and ready to learn. A child doesn’t say “prove it to me†but rather trusts. But how do we trust something we can’t see or touch? We don’t want to accept just anything. The Bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God. The word of God is the written word through prophets and apostles but it can also be the spoken word. The word of God is needed because it reveals God’s thoughts; His intentions, what He wants from us, what He wants to give us and His heart toward us. It says that the word of God is powerful to the dividing of soul and spirit. Soul = that which pertains to the mind and body, Spirit = that which pertains to God’s kingdom and the part of us that was created in His image.

 

You said some things about prophecy being vague or taken out of context. I’m no scholar but after 30+ years of studying these things closely I can assure you that they are not taken out of context and they are extremely precise. The History is there to bear out the reliability of those fulfilled in the past and the future ones look to be shaping up just as foretold. I don’t see how anyone can look at the nation of Israel and blow off the prophetic implications. Prophecy is like a light in a dark place, it helps us to see where we need to go.

 

You also had some doubts about the transmission and compiling of the books of the Bible. I am going to send you a couple of DVD’s that can explain this better than I can. But briefly the books of the Bible as we know it were in wide circulation among the early church from the time of their writing throughout the 1st and 2nd centuries even though persecution was extreme in those days. All of the New Testament but 11 verses were quoted by the early church fathers in their sermons and writings; these were the first and second generation disciples of the apostles. Also, oral tradition among the Jewish and gentile churches was very strong. We now know that many of the NT verses were actually songs in order to make the crucial doctrines easier to remember. The early church was extremely zealous to make sure the letters that they received where from the apostles because, as today, there were fakes out there. The ones they were sure of were copied profusely; this is why there are close to 25,000 ancient copies and fragments of the NT, some we have date back to the 2nd century. So the compilation of books and letters where in common use by the church long before Constantine.

 

Another thing that should be recognized is that the scriptures are for all people in all cultures throughout history. Therefore, if empirical evidence was the only way to judge whether or not the Bible is what it claims to be, there would have been no viable tests prior to about 100 years ago and even in much of the world today. For these writings to be the word of God they had to have power in and of themselves so all people could hear these words and know they are from God, remember hearing produces faith. I believe this is where the Bible shines because it puts us in touch with God and He in turn changes our lives. There are countless drug addicts, murders, terrorists, criminals of all sorts, people from all different cultures and religious backgrounds, despondent and suicidal, and the list goes on of those who have been radically changed by this book and their encounter with God. Many have come to God without having the Bible; they hear the word in other ways. But when they do get the Bible or receive oral teaching of the word they rejoice that their relationship with Jesus is made closer and deeper. I’ve met people in Sudan that came to the Lord through visions and would give up harvesting a crop necessary for their survival in order to get a copy of the Bible or to have someone teach it to them.

 

Yesterday if you read my e-mail you saw some ways that God and His word changed my life. I’m now going to get even more personal and talk about you. I don’t mean this to criticize or condemn, I write this because I love you very much. I remember when you were 12 years old and you decided it was time to commit your life to the Lord. I remember praying with you, it’s hard to explain but it was the happiest day of my life and then when Traci and Erin came to faith that meant everything to me. I think the reason why was because I knew you guys would be ok no matter what life threw at you after that. Even the worst of catastrophes wouldn’t keep you from the love and glory of the Lord forever. Mom and I weren’t always the best example for you, we watched way too much TV for one, but you grew spiritually anyway. Every one of us is a little different in the way we relate to God but your personality and commitment touched a lot of people. You probably weren’t aware of how much but people would come to me and say what a blessing you were to them. Even recently, maybe a year ago, one young guy whose name I forgot, came up to me at a men’s prayer breakfast and said that you really influenced his life. Your worship of God and your energy to serve was a blessing to others. You also demonstrated courage and fortitude in witnessing and even defending the faith. Seeing you with the kids in Mexico and the pictures from Ukraine showed that you cared and that you had a tender heart, the heart of God working in you. I was always proud of you, no matter how well you did things it was never as important as your love for God.

 

I don’t know about all the things that discouraged you and caused you to believe that all of this wasn’t real, only you and God know that, but I witnessed you laying aside the armor of God (we are on a spiritual battleground here). Here’s a practical analogy from scripture that I know you are familiar with. First I saw you lay down your sword which is the word of God and with it the belt of truth. Soon you gave up the shield of faith which protects you from the attacks of the enemy, the breastplate of righteousness that covered your heart from the pollution of the world followed and finally you took off the helmet of salvation which protects your mind and gives you assurance of salvation.

 

All I can say is “where’s Nathan?†You seem to be impatient and rude a lot of the time, if not angry. Instead of people telling me how you’ve blessed them I hear of disappointment and hurt. I get the feeling that you don’t really like being around us. I can understand if I have done things to tick you off, I can have that affect on people, but your sisters and mom certainly deserve better. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you have a lot of friends and are well liked, you’re intelligent and have a good sense of humor and you can be fun to be around. But I’m concerned about the deeper part of you, the guy inside is being changed. If this is evolution, I don’t like it. I have only heard one atheist that seemed to really care about people; all the others seemed to be angry, aggressive and very self centered. I guess it’s survival of the fittest. But I believe the Word of God even has the power to change them.

 

I don’t want to cram anything down your throat, you would just throw it up anyway, but I felt the need to express these things to you because this is from my heart. We do love you and God loves you even more and we will be here for you until the end.

 

Your Dad

[The-Captain]

Wow....

 

Tough situation, when someone gets all "blind faith" and "can't use logic on my faith" there really isnt more that can be argued. My opinion, and this is really more of a reflection of my personality, is that its not worth the trouble. I get along pretty well with my xian family and others, just dont talk about it much, focus on other things.

 

Yeah its annoying as hell how they think you've "fallen" and arent the same person anymore (in their opinion worse) and like to bug you about these things. But we godless atheists realize how short life is, to short to be at odds with your family. Even if hes being patronizing your dad sounds like an alright guy, and it sounds like your close to the rest of the family. Thats not something I would want to undermine, if they wont have you anymore fine but I wouldnt want to be the one doing the alienating. Maybe he just needs to see that your still a good person atheist or not. Yes he's unfairly judging but that can't be helped, just respond with kindness and respect even when its not given in return.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[GraphicsGuy]

I dunno, man. Maybe you just need to drop the convo. Can't be anything but stressful for you. At least they're not kicking you out of their life... Still, I can see how frustrating it is. They seem to be refusing to see things from your point of view. Unfortunately, that's pretty common for people to do...religious or not...

[Amethyst]

I definitely empathize with you. *Hug* It's hard to realize that our family will not agree with us on everything, and will likely never agree or see things from our point of view. Sometimes those arguments have to be let go for the sake of continuing the relationship (if you want one, that is).

[HuaiDan]

You could counter that God is a spiritual journey one must undertake for one's self. You could go through the motions to please him, but that would insult his intelligence. And as an intelligent person, what more can he expect from you than your due consideration? As an intelligent person he should accept your conclusions on this journey might not be the same as his.

[Deva]

You could counter that God is a spiritual journey one must undertake for one's self. You could go through the motions to please him, but that would insult his intelligence. And as an intelligent person, what more can he expect from you than your due consideration? As an intelligent person he should accept your conclusions on this journey might not be the same as his.

 

Agree with this 100% now that your father knows your position. I am so sorry that you have to deal with this MC. Since God is a "spiritual" being, reason must therefore go out the window. It always comes down to just having faith, when Christians have no answers. Your father does not seem to be open to rational discussion and has a very negative view of atheists.

 

Maybe you should try to ignore everything your father said except the last line-- "We do love you and God loves you even more and we will be here for you until the end." Further ignore the "God loves you even more" and you have "We do love you and we will be here for you until the end." That sounds pretty good.

[Mike D]

Me and my dad have had similar conversations about my atheism.... we finally got to the point where we just have to agree to disagree.

 

I think with these types of discussions it eventually gets to the point where further debate becomes useless and non-productive. My dad wil never see the world through my eyes, and I can never see the world through his. He may not like the fact that I am an atheist, or even understand how I ended up one, but nothing he can say or do will change my views.

 

The good thing is that your dad does not sound like a fundy kook who thinks your atheism is a result of demons or Satan entering your brain and body and taking over (hehe), and that he and your family still loves you. And at the end of the day that's probably the only thing that matters.

[Mike D]

PS Just noticed you're from LA too, nice to see a fellow ex'er from here...

[bellsybop]

I'd probably tell my dad that I love him too and let it go as much as you can from your side.

 

At least you've faced this amongst your parents. I haven't yet, nor do I look forward to it.

Although my dad is atheist, my mother still believes the southern baptist junk. She knows that

my thinking has significantly changed, but we both opt to keep it at that... at least for now.

 

Just stay true to who you are.

[Mandatory Chaos]

I appreciate all the comments everyone.

 

I think the most frustrating thing for me is, he encouraged the open discuss of our beliefs in hoping to find the truth. What this e-mail tells me, is when the truth begins to look like something contrary to what he believes, he reverts back to getting me to believe what he knows as true. He's believed this stuff for so long that he's convinced nothing else can be true. I'm more than happy to agree to disagree, but it will only stop the debates for a little while. My family will never stop trying to convert me back.

[Grandpa Harley]

then don't debate...

 

everytime you get that sotr of mail, thank them for it and tell them thet you love them... that's all you can do, short of sticking a mail box filter that trashes anything with certain key words in them...

 

I do it all the time...

[florduh]

Wow. That is almost word for word like the letters I got from my dad. Heartfelt and loving, but still a dead end. He probably won't change or give up. From his perspective he can't.

 

My father continued to reach out past the grave in my case. He died last year, and I was at his memorial service at his whacko church along with my brother and sister (both non-believers). The preacher told everyone from his pulpit that it was Dad's last wish that his kids come to the Lord, then he pointed to us! Three heathens identified and surrounded by rather rabid Christians. I thought it was particularly bad form on the preacher's part, but I refrained from addressing the congregation considering the circumstances. His religious widow (not my mom) later asked if I was going to give a "gift" to the pastor for performing the ceremony. My response to her might have been a little rude.

 

I hope you two can eventually "agree to disagree" and maintain a good relationship.

 

- Chris

[Grandpa Harley]

sounds like he fuck stick was lucky you didn't throw him in the hole... The guy I got for my Dad's funeral was very good... KJV of 23rd Psalm, NIV of Heb 13:1-7 and a moment's silence for people to remember my dad...

[Mandatory Chaos]

then don't debate...

 

everytime you get that sotr of mail, thank them for it and tell them thet you love them... that's all you can do, short of sticking a mail box filter that trashes anything with certain key words in them...

 

I do it all the time...

 

That would probably be the best thing to do, but I feel like the debates (the rational ones anyway) help me sort through what I believe and compare things fairly.

 

I'm going to respond to this one rationally, but if he can only come back with appeals to faith, then I'm done.

[Grandpa Harley]

Word to the wise... if they love you and don't put their imaginary friend before you, then I'd consider finding other places to hone or winnow your opinions...

[R. S. Martin]

MC, if you want someone to help you sort through this email from your father, I'm willing to talk with you about it. There's a lot in it and my background is somewhat different from yours but one thing stands out to me. He says when you got saved at age 12 he knew you would always be safe. I understood he believed you could never get lost as in once saved always saved. Yet later he describes how he thinks you lay down your spiritual armour, based on that bible passage. That doesn't make sense to me. He can't have it both ways. Possibly I misunderstand. Doesn't he think you are now lost? He doesn't mention hell so I don't know what he thinks your deconversion means. My family thinks it means that I will burn in hell for eternity if I don't repent.

 

They haven't told me in so many words but they don't have to; I know it. I have asked them to commit me to God in prayer and let the Holy Ghost work on me. I figure that way they will let me go and there is no holy ghost. I put it to them as a question that challenged their faith. I asked something like, "Do you trust the Spirit's ability to convert people?" It is possible that they see through my "trick," but I'll let them raise the topic if they think it needs to be raised. I think it's pretty clear to them that I don't want to be "saved." And that was my sister's concern--that she was "doing her duty."

 

Back to your situation, if your father doesn't think you are going to hell what is his problem? Is he just disappointed that you're not following his chosen spiritual path? Again, I don't understand that. You're not the same person. Surely anyone who brings a kid into the world knows that kid is not going to be the same as the parent. Parents need to live their own lives. I understand you're an adult. That means his job as parent is over. Done. Finished. If this is done right the two of you can be friends and you might be able to learn from his larger life experience.

 

Be aware that this is a learning experience for him as well as for you. I get the impression that you're his only son. This means he has no experience in relating to adult sons. Perhaps he has experience relating to his own father but that is different. Dads were "always there" but sons were babies just a bit ago. If you have kids or know kids who were born when you were twenty or older, you'll know what I mean. You'll always remember when they were little and it will always seem like not all that long ago. It is hard to realize that they are all grown up and that their thinking abilities are just as good as your own, and possibly better in some areas. In fact, I've had this kind of experience with my youngest siblings who are only 13 and 16 years younger than me. Relating to an adult son or daughter must be a lot like this, but perhaps more intense because the relationship is probably more intense to begin with.

 

Those are some of my thoughts. I would echo Grandpa Harley's warnings about not alienating your father. Family relationships cannot be taken for granted. I have had to cut mine. I'm in the process of establishing a surrogate family for legal end-of-life purposes. I'm telling you this just so you know that this stuff can get really, really serious. And I'm not the only one. Others on here have been divorced by spouse, disowned by parents, and denied access to their kids because they deconverted. This stuff is deadly serious. If you're one of the lucky ones whose family tolerates your deconversion, cherish and nurture the relationship. DO NOT TAKE IT FOR GRANTED.

[Kenny]

I guess I'm chiming in for a couple of reasons... first, because I'm a father and second, because I know how you feel. I don't know a thing about you other than what you've posted here on the forums, so I'm just making casual observations. I hope you don't mind this and I hope my comments are encouraging to you in some way.

 

I believe your dad loves you very much. I can see it in what he wrote to you and in how he wrote it. Again, I won't even presume to know a lick about your relationship with him now or in the past. I'm a dad. He's a dad. I'd bet a dollar to a donut that he's crazy about you. You guys may be butting heads, but try to see it if you haven't in a while.

 

With that said (like my opinion's worth anything), I did want to comment on some of his remarks because, again, I think I know how you feel - at least a little anyway.

 

Therefore, if you approach the knowledge of God with the natural mind you will never really understand.

 

I hate this statement because it reeks of arrogance and because, well, it's stupid. The statement's made by people who feel that they have special knowledge or insight and YOU DON'T. A natural mind? Is this opposed to an UNnatural mind? I'll pass on the latter, thanks. Natural is fine with me.

 

There are countless drug addicts, murders, terrorists, criminals of all sorts, people from all different cultures and religious backgrounds, despondent and suicidal, and the list goes on of those who have been radically changed by this book and their encounter with God.

 

I went through AA with people who's higher power was an ashtray and that worked for them. This is a blanket statement that can be applied to any "path". If Christianity works for folks (and it obviously does) and they're happy, good for them. But the same can be said for the Eastern religions and any of the multitudes of other spiritual paths. To say that Christianity has the market cornered is absurd.

 

I’ve met people in Sudan that came to the Lord through visions and would give up harvesting a crop necessary for their survival in order to get a copy of the Bible or to have someone teach it to them.

 

Leave it to religion to warp people sufficiently enough to behave in such a manner. Holy shit. I can only say that it's one of the most ludicrous statements I've heard in my time on the planet. I spent nearly a year deployed to Africa with the US Army and there wasn't much demand for Bibles. There was, however, an insatiable demand for food and clean water.

 

Seeing you with the kids in Mexico and the pictures from Ukraine showed that you cared and that you had a tender heart, the heart of God working in you. I was always proud of you, no matter how well you did things it was never as important as your love for God.

 

Another lie of Christianity... there's no possible way that you could care, have a tender heart and help kids in Mexico or the Ukraine with just the common sense and decency that you have as a human being. If it doesn't come from God, then it isn't REAL and worthy of a heavenly reward. It's all just a waste unless it's a youth mission trip, eh?

 

All I can say is “where’s Nathan?†You seem to be impatient and rude a lot of the time, if not angry. Instead of people telling me how you’ve blessed them I hear of disappointment and hurt.

 

I'd wager that you probably are angry when you're around Christian folks who bitch because you're no longer blessing them. This is a manipulative statement. They can't wrap their minds around the fact that you're, more than likely, disappointed and hurt, too. You may not be the same young man your father knew, but that has little bearing on the fact that you are who you are and he has the opportunity to accept you as such.

 

I'm certain you love your dad and I'm certain he loves you. Things change. And when people love one another, they roll with the punches. I hope you and your dad find a way to work through this and be friends. Good luck to you.

[Mandatory Chaos]

Thank you for the insight Kenny.

 

I do know he loves me and of course I love him since he's my dad. It's just been awkward around my parents ever since I stopped going to church (about 3 years ago now). It's really hard to be around my parents because we really have nothing to talk about. They're so wrapped up in christianity that I can't be myself without disappointing them, so I've been keeping my distance. I also moved out of their house about seven months ago and came clean about believing in evolution after I was out. That's what started this whole debate in the first place.

 

Seeing you with the kids in Mexico and the pictures from Ukraine showed that you cared and that you had a tender heart, the heart of God working in you. I was always proud of you, no matter how well you did things it was never as important as your love for God.

 

Another lie of Christianity... there's no possible way that you could care, have a tender heart and help kids in Mexico or the Ukraine with just the common sense and decency that you have as a human being. If it doesn't come from God, then it isn't REAL and worthy of a heavenly reward. It's all just a waste unless it's a youth mission trip, eh?

 

Actually I did it for the girls and because my friends were doing it. Does that make me a bad person? I mean, I was only 16 at the time. Now that I reflect on my church life, most of what I did there was to impress girls or fit in.

 

All I can say is “where’s Nathan?†You seem to be impatient and rude a lot of the time, if not angry. Instead of people telling me how you’ve blessed them I hear of disappointment and hurt.

 

I'd wager that you probably are angry when you're around Christian folks who bitch because you're no longer blessing them. This is a manipulative statement. They can't wrap their minds around the fact that you're, more than likely, disappointed and hurt, too. You may not be the same young man your father knew, but that has little bearing on the fact that you are who you are and he has the opportunity to accept you as such.

 

This was the statement that pissed me off. First of all, he doesn't tell me who these people are. Not to mention the fact that I haven't seen the people from my church since I had left. Second, I didn't like who I was when I was going. I was arrogant, judgmental, ungenuine, and a push over. Ever since I left my, thoughts have been so much clearer and I've become so much more accepting of people. Sure, I did all the things a good christian does when I still going to church, but I did them out of fear of being rejected by people and disappointing god. Now that I have no one to impress I finally feel free to be me and be a better me. The fact that he wants me to be that person I was when I was a christian and not grow because I come off as rude infuriates me. I told him a long time ago that I was so much happier about who I was since I stopped going to church, but I think he forgot about that. Of course, he got my salvation age wrong too. I was much younger than 12 when I asked jesus into my heart. I remember because I gave my "testimony" in class at the christian school I was attending when I was 11.

 

Ruby Sera:

He mentioned in other e-mails that my path leads to Hell; not quite in those terms but I knew what he meant. He and my sister both have invoked Pascal's Wager on me several times, but I think my argument against that is lost on them.

 

I am the oldest, and since I recently moved out, I think you're right about it all being new to him. My sister moved out before I did to go to a christian college in Oklahoma to get a degree in persecuted church ministry, so I think he's comparing me with her.

[ShackledNoMore]

That's quite an e-mail. It's well written for an apologetic, although still full of holes and unsupported assertions, and it has the condescending undercurrent to it, gauche and unwarranted, that adult offspring get from their parents--the one that holds the parent up as the paragon of wisdom for life. I identify with that, and I hate it.

 

I think that your father hoping to find the truth implied a symbolic nod to open-mindedness on his part, but it really meant for YOU to find the Truth™ that he dare not question. Those are his motives for the debates.

 

As for "Where's Nathan?" I'd bet he's drawing his conclusions from talk with family and/or his close church friends where he laments your having strayed from the fold and they commiserate. Since you had the audacity to deviate from the groupthink of the fold it WILL be interpreted as rude and angry, no matter that you've dropped the judgemental bigotry and your treatment of people is better and your behavior in line even without the threat of infinite eternal punishment from some god.

 

It got so bad with me that all I could talk about with my mother was cooking and the weather. ANYTHING else would lead her into a lecture about god. I hope that you can find more common ground than that with your parents and that they will eventually resign themselves more to your deconversion and come to a détente.

[Grandpa Harley]

I admire your honesty... poontang at 16 is a lot more believable and normal than Gloria Dei...

[Kenny]

Actually I did it for the girls and because my friends were doing it. Does that make me a bad person? I mean, I was only 16 at the time. Now that I reflect on my church life, most of what I did there was to impress girls or fit in.

 

 

Of course you did and/or so what if you did? The point is that you did something that was good, worthwhile, and you helped people. That's 100% good regardless of why you did it. Christians get all hung up on the motive of things. "It's what's in your heart..." Bullshit. If you ran into a burning house and rescued two little kids and their parakeet for the sole reason of hoping to get your picture in the paper and to be called a hero - were the kids and their pet any LESS rescued? A Christian would tell you it was a selfish reason to perform the act, that it didn't bring glory to God, and that the "earthly" reward you reaped was all you'll get because of that. To use the same comical example, I've heard Christians say things like, "Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic that he saved those kids and that parakeet, but everyone knows he's lost. I hope he finds Jesus because, otherwise, his home will be hell when he dies - rescued kids or not."

 

I doubt if the kids in Mexico and the Ukraine gave a flip about why you guys were there. They were just glad you were. You did a good thing in spite of yourself!!!

[Alice]

MC,

 

That is quite an e-mail.

 

Something in it has touched a cord with a lot of people who have responded. I loved my Father and he loved me - but he muddled up in this was a whole load of Christian thinking that teaches that love only belongs to those who share the same Christian beliefs.

 

If I'd received this as an e-mail from my Father, I'd have honed in on this part ...

 

Yesterday if you read my e-mail you saw some ways that God and His word changed my life. I’m now going to get even more personal and talk about you. I don’t mean this to criticize or condemn, I write this because I love you very much.

 

*snip*

 

Here’s a practical analogy from scripture that I know you are familiar with. First I saw you lay down your sword which is the word of God and with it the belt of truth. Soon you gave up the shield of faith which protects you from the attacks of the enemy, the breastplate of righteousness that covered your heart from the pollution of the world followed and finally you took off the helmet of salvation which protects your mind and gives you assurance of salvation.

 

All I can say is “where’s Nathan?†You seem to be impatient and rude a lot of the time, if not angry. Instead of people telling me how you’ve blessed them I hear of disappointment and hurt. I get the feeling that you don’t really like being around us. I can understand if I have done things to tick you off, I can have that affect on people, but your sisters and mom certainly deserve better. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you have a lot of friends and are well liked, you’re intelligent and have a good sense of humor and you can be fun to be around. But I’m concerned about the deeper part of you, the guy inside is being changed. If this is evolution, I don’t like it. I have only heard one atheist that seemed to really care about people; all the others seemed to be angry, aggressive and very self centered. I guess it’s survival of the fittest. But I believe the Word of God even has the power to change them.

 

and I'd have answered in this way ...

 

Dad,

 

I certainly read your e-mail yesterday and I understand that you believe that your life has been changed by God and by his word. When I say that I believe you made those changes yourself I do not mean this to condemn or criticse you. My appreciation for you as my Father doesn’t rise and fall dependent on your belief system.

 

You ask, ‘where is Nathan?’ and it does hurt to read that you don’t like what you see. You describe a setting aside of the armour of God – yes I have put these things aside and what you now see is the real me, I have put down the masks, the shields, the disguise.

 

If I have been impatient or rude, I apologise, I will certainly take your comments to heart and examine my behaviour. It is not easy to walk away from a belief system that is shared by the rest of my family and to feel your disappointment, I may have acted from frustration as a result. This is not an excuse but a reason and I will think about what you have said.

 

One of the things that has not changed is the care I have for other people.

 

The emotional part of the e-mail invites an emotional response but one that demonstrates you are not the things he worries you have become.

[Grandpa Harley]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! But that's GOOD...

[Mike D]

Christians get all hung up on the motive of things. "It's what's in your heart..."

What a crock. I remember when hurricane Katrina happened some church groups travelled to the area to hand out Bibles, and I was like, what the f- , these people need money to help rebuild their lives, not reading materials! (and a boring read at that!). What could possibly be in someone's heart who wastes thousands of dollars to travel somewhere and hand out bronze-age mythology to people who are in desperate need of things like food and a dry place to sleep in, other than scoring points with Jeebus for new conversions? Not only are Christians generally hypocrites, but many are just plain idiots!!

[Mandatory Chaos]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! But that's GOOD...

 

I agree, there may be a little plagiarism involved in my response to him.