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Goodbye Jesus

What Topics Do Christians Like To Discuss?


R. S. Martin

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I think you're right about who Maslow is but he was not about the moral compass. Abraham H. Maslow was about self-esteem. Morality is a product of self-esteem. The "pyramid" is also commonly known as "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs." A book that builds on it is "Healing The Child Within: Discovery and Recovery for Adult Children of Dysfunctional Families.

 

To be honest, I thought Gramps meant Pavlov Pyramid. I didn't know what the "pyramid" part of it meant--probably progresss or reaching for the sky kind of thing, but Pavlov was the Russian psychologist who experimented with dogs right about a hundred years ago. He would ring a bell when food was brought to the dogs in his lab and they would salivate. With time he got the dogs to salivate simply by ringing the bell even when no food was being brought. Trained automatic robotic responses.

 

This was a major breakthrough in psychology and Pavlov's name continues to be used in the popular literature as in "Pavlovian respnses." Somehow, I thought "Maslov" was a typo of Pavlov. My brain must have picked out the last part of the name and connected it with the psychologist element and presto! Pavlov. Christianity is an attempt to reach for the sky but it failed. It's a failed attempt up the Pavlov Pyramid. That is how I took it.

 

Mayhap, I think the morality thing was more my own philosophy if not Maslow's. Kind of an expanded ideal of nurture and give respect to give respect. I tend to interject my own thinking into things if I cant remember what Ive read. Though, perhaps I remember wrong, the self actualized stage resulted in someone ready and capable of being moral, empathic and metacognate.

 

Yeah and I looked up Maslov too, for the hell of it, all I found was some russian racecar driver...bet his pyramid is more interesting though.

 

Edit: Sorry I forgot what section this was, I'll try to keep on topic.

 

My reason for emphasizing the moral compass thing is that one of the philosophers is known especially for his "moral compass." I forget, was it Kant? Take a look at this--Kant's Moral Philosophy. I love Maslow and can't stand Kant. Maybe that's why I'm being nitpicky here. Sorry.

 

To me, Kant comes across too much as "You do as I tell you and things will turn out just fine because I know what's good for you." Maslow wrote "The Psychology of Being," which contains the Heirarchy of Needs, and allows people to grow into their real selves. His philosophy underlay the humanitarian values that helped me to turn my life around and affirm my Self.

 

He may not have left an empty tomb but if I had to name a savior I'd name him.

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Thanks for the link Ruby. Im not a student of psychology so I often miss these things. It seems that I throw the word moral or morality around without consideration for the meaning alot of people take from it. Rather simplistic but when I talk about morality, it would be more accurate to call it empathy or kindness (at least the intention of such). Not so much this law of morality and duty stuff Kant talks about, I think that when morality is prescribed, quantified and codified it becomes quickly irrelevant to a layperson such as myself.

 

Edit: As an addendum I too love psychologists like Maslow, that simple upbeat view of humans was my first experience with humanism. It was very different from what I was used to hearing about the human condition during my time as an xian. Of course I dismissed it as heathen optimism not wanting to see its sinful state. But later I came to appreciate it and recently have come back to reading it and seeing the truth in it.

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I like what Ruby said before "Your perseverance in talking with us might prove to be good for all involved". Im of the same opinion, continued civil dialogue (even between opposing camps) are good for all involved. I like to see that there are rational minds on both sides and people willing to hear eachother out.

 

 

So to sum up rather childishly: Im not really sure but I do like talking and I think its probably a good thing :P

 

Yeah, me too--I'm not sure either but I like talking too and it might be a good thing. Sometimes it's easier sounding like the wise old woman than actually being wise. And there is always the possibility that it could work out for the good. That's why I used the word "might"--it could but I don't really know. One thing I know fairly certain is that civil dialogue is easier on everyone's nerves and blood pressure. So if we're going to be in the same room it would be to everyone's benefit to learn how to peacefully co-exist. How's that?

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"Sometimes it's easier sounding like the wise old woman than actually being wise."

 

My esteemed elder brother has a similar saying

 

"Easiest thing in the world is to give good advice. It's taking it that's the hard part"

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To explain what I meant...

 

Chrisitanity actively tries to prevent anyone getting above the low end of the 'esteem' layer of the Maslov Pyramid. You try and get above that and the community will try and tear you back down, by nearly any means necessary. Maslov supplies no 'moral compass' or anything similar. I don't know where the idea that I was suggesting that...

 

Ever noticed how the language of Christianity is 'humbleness'? Questions like 'Who are you to question god?' abound... it's desgined to keep one at the 'acceptance' level, and allow a tiny amount of self esteem - without the Christ we are worthless bags of dirt, with just enough intelligence to be depraved... so if one begins to develop too far toward self acutualisation (the top of the pyramid) and think critically about what you're told, you're dragged back y the meme and the community... everything is done to undermine your self esteem... thus my comment.

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http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...st&p=344588

 

This is what I mean about Christianity deliberately crippling its aherents... She's trying to get to level one on Maslove, yet she knows what her fate would be if she tries...

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