Explain About Getting 'slain In The Spirit' Please

[Rhia]

Okay, so we've got it that it's hysteria, bullshit, fake, hypnosis, etc, etc, etc.

 

I still don't think we're really covered why though. So I will attempt to do so, trying to "channel" my old and dead pente/Ass of God self.

 

What is it to be slain in the spirit: "Slain in the Spirit" is a colloquial term used in many Pentecostal/Charismatic backgrounds that describes the phenomenon of fainting (whether real or put-on) during a church service that is highlighted by frenzied or "Spirit-filled" worship. This could happen at a revival meeting, a huge convention, or a small, 20-member church where they just happen to know how to derive an emotional reaction through the order of songs during the song-service. (Yes, this is actually taught to pastors and music directors at churches - and in fact was taught to my class in high-school, as my class was graded my senior year based upon "how much the spirit moved" during Children's Chapel service - which we ran, and which was separate from the upperclassmen service.)

 

How does one become slain in the spirit: This is said to happen under many different circumstances, the most-common being the holy spirit descending upon the person, prayer circles at the alter praying it into happening, the pastor/faith-healer/Bob anointing the person in question with a special oil, private reflection and prayer, or one's own purpose (faking it).

 

Why does one become slain in the spirit: Being slain in the spirit is supposed to be an outward reflection of submission to God. It's supposed to be an acknowledgment that God is in control over the said person's life, both emotionally, and physically. The reason a pastor is sometimes the one who initiates (aside from power trips), is because it's a very public symbol of both the person in question's submission, and the pastor's submission to God by becoming a "vessel" so to speak of the power of the spirit.

 

What is the purpose of being slain in the spirit: All submission aside, the supposed purpose of this (basically, what happens to the person once they are slain) is multi-faceted. Many times, "healings" will take place (I watched a girl supposed become cured of Asthma - too bad I wasn't found good enough to have mine cured). Also, there are instances of people having visions of God, or (supposedly) members from loved ones beyond the grave, and also a greater and deeper understanding of God's purpose in their lives.

 

*Note - the "visions" resulting through being slain in the spirit are not to be confused with another phenomenon/style of worship that was very much prominent in my church - "Carm Deo" (God's Song); which was total-submission-without-the-slain worship where the person was supposed to directly seek the face of God - asking for a vision. Carm Deo was much more intense, and completely solitary. One would lay face-down at the alter while the worship band played (or someone put in a worship cd) and would literally scream, cry, and become hysterical and insist that God allow them to see his face (or other parts - i.e. hands, feet, arms, etc.) and would not leave until they were satisfied that they had seen what they had come to see.

 

Have I ever been slain in the spirit? No. I tried several times, I had the circles pray around me, I had the pastor anoint me, I even had the faith that I wanted it to happen - but it never did. I guess it's all for the best that I never humiliated myself in such a strange way. The one time that others thought I was slain in the spirit was the moment that started my deconversion, where I become so hysterical that I hyperventilated and passed-out.

 

Hope this helps.

[bush country]

Does anyone else just think this stuff is embarrassing?

Silly and embarrassing.

 

Five years ago, when I was seeking a "more spiritual experience" I visited a charismatic church and was very uncomfortable. Thought it was just plain stupid. Just as dumb as it was thirty years ago when I was in high school and my best friend's mom took us to charistmatic meetings....among them, Kenneth Copeland when he still did home meetings.

 

Good old Kenneth and Gloria - now there's a couple of people that really know how to play the suckers!

[willybilly30]

I never felt enything but the catchers grabbing me and laying me on the floor after the preacher bops me on the head.

I thought why are they laying me on the floor? I guess I better stay here awhile and look slain lol

[Deva]

Does anyone else just think this stuff is embarrassing?

 

It is embarrassing even to watch it on TV. Never having been in that particular Christian tradition I just could not understand it. This thread has been very interesting.

 

Rhia, that is just amazing. I could never imagine myself even laying face down in front of the church, much less the other fainting, crying, emotional stuff.

 

The one time in the Episcopal church when the priest was anointing people with oil was really strange. Fortunately, those type services were rare.

 

Reading all this, I have the unusual feeling of being glad I was raised Baptist.

[SWIM]

I wonder if you started thrashing around, falling down flailing your arms around in a catholic church what the priest would do? LOL I bet he would toss you out on your ear. I don't think all churches cotton ta dim der pew jumpers... LOL

[Sophronia]

I think spiritual ecstasy can be a valid thing.

 

But like having an orgasm, it's the kinda thing that - for me - is best done in private.

 

A Pentecostal service is, in its own way, kinda like a big orgy.

[ShackledNoMore]

Does anyone else just think this stuff is embarrassing?

Well, yeah, NOW!

 

I also find it kind of silly and embarrassing that there was once a time that I really bought into the line that this particular god was actually out there operating in this manner.

 

Happily, I am NOT embarrassed that reason eventually won out over my brainwashing and programming!

[Antlerman]

I think spiritual ecstasy can be a valid thing.

 

But like having an orgasm, it's the kinda thing that - for me - is best done in private.

 

A Pentecostal service is, in its own way, kinda like a big orgy.

I like what you said about the Hippie drum circle. I think that's why in a Christian church it's embarrassing, as Grandpa put it. This is a primal thing that is all about abandon to ectasy. To wrap it inside of the whole Jesus/Christian thing makes it more like masturbating in an otherwise "polite" social enviroment. It's a contradiction. If you want to experience an orgy, fine, just not during a damned Church service! I think that's why it feels so fakey. It's never the whole thing.

 

Hell, I've got a pair of gon bop congas sitting less than 10 feet away from me right now. Me thinks it's time to strip naked and call up the spirits of the ancient ancestors! Those babies will let out a howl in the house, I'll tell you. Call up the spirits right up from the earth. It's time for some ecstacy baby!

 

 

 

Yes, I'm an ex-Pentecostal.

[white_raven23]

I had a thought. I was never a pentecostal....so this is purely speculative.

 

What if someone has a REAL medical issue at a Revival? They have a seizure, or they clutch their chest and fall to the floor?

 

I want to know if.... the "catchers" you guys describe:

 

A - Know immediately that a real medical emergency is taking place and call 911 right away. Such an action would imply unspoken knowledge that the flailing and thrashings of "slains" are faked.

 

Or B - They don't figure it out right away. They circle and shout praises...allowing several precious minutes to go by while someone who really needs an ambulance lays on the floor.

[ShackledNoMore]

I had a thought. I was never a pentecostal....so this is purely speculative.

 

What if someone has a REAL medical issue at a Revival? They have a seizure, or they clutch their chest and fall to the floor?

 

I want to know if.... the "catchers" you guys describe:

 

A - Know immediately that a real medical emergency is taking place and call 911 right away. Such an action would imply unspoken knowledge that the flailing and thrashings of "slains" are faked.

 

Or B - They don't figure it out right away. They circle and shout praises...allowing several precious minutes to go by while someone who really needs an ambulance lays on the floor.

I think that they'd realize pretty quickly, if not immediately, that it was an actual medical emergency. I don't think it's because of an unspoken knowledge that it was fake, but rather because of differences. Usually when somebody is supposedly "slain in the spirit" they just fall back. If someone is having a heart attack, there's usually the classic symptoms, the chest pain etc. and (I am not a doctor), but I don't think they typically have anything that resembles a seizure. On the other hand, an actual seizure, like an epileptic seizure is also different. I can't speak for everywhere, but at least in my church, people didn't shake like a dying cockroach when they went down. They often quivered with their arms uplifted, mind you, but when they did, it just didn't resemble any seizure I've seen.

 

I'd still wager that the yahoos in many of these churches would still waste all their time until the medics arrived praying for the guy instead of knowing the right steps to take until help arrived.

 

There were also some unspoken rules about how you were supposed to be touched by the spirit. One time I made the mistake of raising my hands with my fists closed instead of open. I thought I was supposed to be having an intense experience with god, I guess. Some lady in the church that latched on to that begged to differ. I think she thought I was possessed by demons. The fallout from that gaffe was VERY drawn out and painful.

[white_raven23]

True, but not all seizures for example, are grand mal (full body shaking like a cockroach). A petite mal might only involve twitching shaky arms.... but then, I don't know that petite mals require hospital attention right away.

 

I used to know an epileptic, and he said the only time he ever "came to" in an ambulance was after a grand mal.

 

 

Hmm.

 

Interesting that pentecostals would quickly ascertain a medical emergency as "different" from their theatrical thrashings. After all...do not BOTH conditions stem from god? Gawd touched that maayunn deeply enou' to cause a heart attack! Praise da Lawd!!

[ogilvy]

anyone got thoughts on the shaking? i did see people just sitting or standing and shaking, and it didnt seem like they were putting it on. what was going on there? it was at toronto blessing meetings.

[Grandpa Harley]

Cutting through every possible manifestation of 'spirit' being possible question... what exactly are you trying t find with these questions? And how many times do you actually want to be pointed to 'hysterical' behaviour, and the 'some would be faking it' type comment?

[ogilvy]

Cutting through ever' possible manifestation of 'spirlt' being possible question... what exactly are you trying t find with these questions? And how many times do you actually want to be pointed to 'hysterical' behaviour, and the 'some would be faking it' type comment?

i dont want to be pointed to 'hysterical behaviour' and 'some would be faking it' type comment. i dont necessarily accept it being just 'hysterical behaviour'. i want to know what happened to anyone who felt it was not hysterical or faked. anyway, you dont have to read t hread if it irritates you.

[ShackledNoMore]

Well at risk of flogging Gramps' horse, I don't see any explanation for shaking, either, beyond more "hysterical" behavior. It's certainly not the presence of some supernatural being, as the pentecostals think. Having been there myself introduces no inconsistencies and does nothing whatsoever to make me think or feel like it's any more "real" or that there are missing explanations beyond what's generally been expressed in this thread. If someone comes up with some other reasonable explanation(s), I'll be interested in reading it. I can't think of what such an explanation would be, but we'll see...

 

That's interesting WR, god causes seizures. One of the things I was taught was that for everything god provided, the devil had a counterfeit (this was in the context of an argument that there was such a thing as demonic speaking in tongues). Hysteria in church, and a short leap from epileptic seizures caused by supernatural beings (god or demons or whoever). Sometimes it doesn't seem like we've progressed all that far out of the dark ages.

[Grandpa Harley]

I wonder if you started thrashing around, falling down flailing your arms around in a catholic church what the priest would do? LOL I bet he would toss you out on your ear. I don't think all churches cotton ta dim der pew jumpers... LOL

Depends... if they're a pre-Vatican II congregation you may well get your arse exorcised first...

[Grandpa Harley]

Cutting through ever' possible manifestation of 'spirlt' being possible question... what exactly are you trying t find with these questions? And how many times do you actually want to be pointed to 'hysterical' behaviour, and the 'some would be faking it' type comment?

i dont want to be pointed to 'hysterical behaviour' and 'some would be faking it' type comment. i dont necessarily accept it being just 'hysterical behaviour'. i want to know what happened to anyone who felt it was not hysterical or faked. anyway, you dont have to read t hread if it irritates you.

 

I'm not irritated since I've not started mocking you... when I get bored I get irritated, and when I get irritated I mock... you'll be under no illusion I am not irritated when I am... accusing me of it is a good way of fast tracking so reel in the attitude...

 

I'm asking where this is going because what I'm seeing is

 

1)you ask about an ever more niche 'manifestation of the spirit'

 

2) People admit to faking it, it being hysteria, or hyperventilation

 

and it begins again, only this time with a more vague one

 

I'd like to know what precisely you're looking for so I can point you at it... at the moment we're skirting the placebo/anti-placebo effect (the latter being where a person is given a real drug and it doesn't work on them at all, not even side effects - would that be an act of spirit because God hates them?)

[SWIM]

I had a thought. I was never a pentecostal....so this is purely speculative.

 

 

What if someone has a REAL medical issue at a Revival? They have a seizure, or they clutch their chest and fall to the floor?

 

I want to know if.... the "catchers" you guys describe:

 

A - Know immediately that a real medical emergency is taking place and call 911 right away. Such an action would imply unspoken knowledge that the flailing and thrashings of "slains" are faked.

 

Or B - They don't figure it out right away. They circle and shout praises...allowing several precious minutes to go by while someone who really needs an ambulance lays on the floor.

 

 

I think it depends on where you are. At the ass of god, (me and wife sat in once out of curiousity) they are so extreme and varied, some seem somewhat convincing, while others are obviously fake, it would be hard to spot. Some of them routinely "shake" like they are having a seizure, so in some cases, they would just sit in there and die.

[SWIM]

True, but not all seizures for example, are grand mal (full body shaking like a cockroach). A petite mal might only involve twitching shaky arms.... but then, I don't know that petite mals require hospital attention right away.

 

Petty mal is something I have occasionally. No, it is not life threatening at all, just uncomfortable till it passes.

[Rhia]

In my church - you weren't supposed to shake while being slain i.e. Jesus Camp. That was considered something more demonic than anything else, quite reminiscent of The Exorcist.

 

It's typically easy to tell the difference due to how the person falls - most people who become slain control their falling and allow themselves to be placed on the ground. I would like to think they would notice if suddenly someone lost control, especially if one were a catcher, and suddenly someone's full body weight is crashing down upon them.

[SWIM]

In my church - you weren't supposed to shake while being slain i.e. Jesus Camp. That was considered something more demonic than anything else, quite reminiscent of The Exorcist.

 

It's typically easy to tell the difference due to how the person falls - most people who become slain control their falling and allow themselves to be placed on the ground. I would like to think they would notice if suddenly someone lost control, especially if one were a catcher, and suddenly someone's full body weight is crashing down upon them.

 

In an ass of god, in a small town, they are just happy to have you lol, they could care less if you shake or yell, or even RUN full tilt down the isles (saw some do that).

[Rhia]

I saw running, yelling, and even one guy who tried to hang from a chandelier, but the one thing that was associated with "struggling with demonic possession" (and this was an Ass of God church in a small town as well) was shaking. Unless of course this person was surrounded by people and they were screaming for the demons to "leave in the name of JEEEESUS!"

[GraphicsGuy]

I've had the shaking before...that one happened quite often to me. Honestly, I think it's partly an adrenaline rush. Pent up energy from getting excited just coming out in some manner.

 

Back to a question that Raven (I think) asked on the previous page. There have been stories of people dying while being prayed for due to people not realizing it was a medical issue. Actual news stories, yes. Not just hearsay. I'm sure I could find one if I looked...

[ogilvy]

Cutting through ever' possible manifestation of 'spirlt' being possible question... what exactly are you trying t find with these questions? And how many times do you actually want to be pointed to 'hysterical' behaviour, and the 'some would be faking it' type comment?

i dont want to be pointed to 'hysterical behaviour' and 'some would be faking it' type comment. i dont necessarily accept it being just 'hysterical behaviour'. i want to know what happened to anyone who felt it was not hysterical or faked. anyway, you dont have to read t hread if it irritates you.

 

I'm not irritated since I've not started mocking you... when I get bored I get irritated, and when I get irritated I mock... you'll be under no illusion I am not irritated when I am... accusing me of it is a good way of fast tracking so reel in the attitude...

 

I'm asking where this is going because what I'm seeing is

 

1)you ask about an ever more niche 'manifestation of the spirit'

 

2) People admit to faking it, it being hysteria, or hyperventilation

 

and it begins again, only this time with a more vague one

 

I'd like to know what precisely you're looking for so I can point you at it... at the moment we're skirting the placebo/anti-placebo effect (the latter being where a person is given a real drug and it doesn't work on them at all, not even side effects - would that be an act of spirit because God hates them?)

i was wondering if there was some other explanation for some of the 'manifestations' i've seen, which didnt look to be faked, where people seem to be under an influence out of their control and not from God. i think its too easy to say its from hysteria. i think saying hysteria is like saying 'i dont know' what it was. maybe we dont know what it was. i've seen people do these things not in any atmosphere of hysteria at all, not in a charged up atmosphere. and heard of people who feel like ligntning bolt has hit them. ok if its hysteria, then what is hysteria exactly? some have suggested mass hypnotism.

i experienced something like it at a hippie festival, where there was this buddhist monk. he was just sitting on the ground outside the buddhist tent, and others were sitting around him. seemed like people were drawn to him, to be in his presence, which was extremely peaceful. when he did the meditation workshop, which was just a breathing thing thing, something strange came over me, but in a good way. a joyful feeling, and tears were streaming down my face. later on in the day at the food area he was siitting under a tree and people were coming up. a girl came over, and she also began 'crying' for no reason. he was an american guy, scott bruso. later when i became a christian, and i mentioned that person as someone who seemed 'good', it was explained to me that 'the devil appears as an angel of light', which is indeed what it says in the bible. anyway it seemed similar to states i've seen people in, and not from being in a hysterical atmosphere, just quiet.

well i think there could be some other answer, not just hysteria, thats all.

[Grandpa Harley]

Right, so you're coming from a place where daimons (sic) are real. Fair enough... they may be. However, they can equally well be a product of the mind... Why does someone given a sugar pill have their tumour shrink when someone who gets the real drug winds up as a hunk of curdling, cancer ridden meat? A meta-study of studies (actually sponsored by drug companies who were trying to find out why the real drug didn't work) showed something interesting... in the 10% of people who it failed on in a study, 95% of those were treated by people who thought they didn't have a hope in hell, didn't like the patient, thought the drug was a sham or that the patient had 'given up', didn't like the medical staff or thought the drug was a sham... Effectively, the human mind was causing their body to stop the drug working. The other 5% were supervening causes, or administrative error (they were not given the drug correctly). It affected the way that a good number of double blind studies are run...

 

So, was there a real external cause of the 'anti-placebo' or is the human mind a lot more powerful in its interactions with the human body than given credit for? THe drug companies thought the latter, and it's hard to debunk what was pretty good science... it does of course mean that the placebo effect it more powerful than anyone would care to admit, but for the sake of the JREFs on here, we won't look behind that curtain...