ogilvy Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 i mixed with, read about, or heard in meetings, on tapes etc hundreds of people who claim to have been healed or seen others healed, even raised from the dead! its always seemed strange to me that despite seeking to witness such things, i never have. and the people who claim to have, seem, in many cases to be 'respectable' people i wudnt imagine would lie about it. even a teacher at my kids school some years ago told the kids that God had put a gold filling in her tooth! things like this seemed to be christian urban legends to me. what i dont get is how 'respectable-seeming' christians, following a religion in which the TRUTH is a major theme, can lie or exaggerate about such things. did anyone here ever experience healing or a miracle that couldnt be easily explained away? after all those years in christian circles, i never saw anything 'supernatural'. i tried to speak in tongues (yuk) but it didnt happen, to my, then, disappointment. my friends tried to teach me how to do it, haha! i didnt see that in the bible. yet i heard from other people that they spontaneously spoke in tongues when they were saved. strange also that i never saw that happen to anyone. did anyone experience anything real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 nope. not a bloody thing. I have a Christian friend who claims a big lump disappeared from his head through prayer. I'm hoping that wasn't actually his brain?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I've heard a lot of claims but have not seen proof. I actually had a minister stand up and brag about how he and his buddies prayed for a woman dying in the hospital and she was HEALED but she died the next day ... I have relatives that claim miraculous healing AFTER they have surgery or chemo ... If they are not completely cured they claim victory that God gave them a partial healing ... I don't cater to a cheap ass god that's too tired to give a complete cure. Then you get a pat answer like, 'god doesn't give us more than we can bear.' Which is why the suicide rate is so high in the USA. 'Prayer works wonders,' so I've heard, but I think it's a wonder anyone prays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thought I was healed of diabetes as a young teen. Damn near died before they got me back on my insulin. The beginning of the end (of my xtian days.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 My best friend thought he was healed of his asthma once and as we were driving home he asked me to toss his inhaler out the window. Like the fucking fundy moron I was, I did it. "Show of faith" and all I guess. Anyway, he had an asthma attack the next night (or later that same night...can't remember) and had to be rushed to the doctor. My parents told us never to do that again and to always check "healings" with a doctor first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telesmith Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 15 years in the thick of the charismatic movement and never saw a thing with my own eyes. Pretty much seems to be the consensus here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 30 years, nothing. I searched for it. I went to "miracle" meeting after "miracle" meeting but of some reason God always chose to not show his amazing powers over nature whenever I was there. I don't know why? Probably my doubt or my quest to see were too strong for him. That's quite amazing, my power is stronger than God's! When I die and meet God, face to face, I tell him to go to Hell, and I'll take the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughtyhamster Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 When I was just a wee thing my mother would go to church and get "slain in the spirit" to get Gawd to heal her rare lymph node condition. Afterwards as nothing ever happened she just told me and other people "It just wasn't my time to be healed. God is probably waiting for the right time." Well when I was a teenager I became a bit skeptical, but back then my mother would give me the "Satan is telling you lies my dear to make you angry at God." talk in which I would quit questioning and accept what she said. Years later some fundie friend of mine from the community college tried to get me to cough up $80 to her so she could buy tickets for Mom and I to one of Benny Hinn's faith healing services. She accused me of blasphemy when I said "Why does Hinn charge people to come and get healed when in the Bible Jesus healed people and didn't ask for any compensation?! That Hinn guy is a charlatan!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RevDDM Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 i mixed with, read about, or heard in meetings, on tapes etc hundreds of people who claim to have been healed or seen others healed, even raised from the dead! its always seemed strange to me that despite seeking to witness such things, i never have. and the people who claim to have, seem, in many cases to be 'respectable' people i wudnt imagine would lie about it. even a teacher at my kids school some years ago told the kids that God had put a gold filling in her tooth! things like this seemed to be christian urban legends to me. what i dont get is how 'respectable-seeming' christians, following a religion in which the TRUTH is a major theme, can lie or exaggerate about such things.did anyone here ever experience healing or a miracle that couldnt be easily explained away? after all those years in christian circles, i never saw anything 'supernatural'. i tried to speak in tongues (yuk) but it didnt happen, to my, then, disappointment. my friends tried to teach me how to do it, haha! i didnt see that in the bible. yet i heard from other people that they spontaneously spoke in tongues when they were saved. strange also that i never saw that happen to anyone. did anyone experience anything real? Sadly, no such healing is probable... it is possible, but it doesn't happen that way (at least, not anymore). There were times I wished God would heal certain people miraculously, and it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Hey, God boy is back! Yay! Decided to get your sandals dirty huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Sadly, no such healing is probable... it is possible, but it doesn't happen that way (at least, not anymore). There were times I wished God would heal certain people miraculously, and it never happened. Let me guess, it only happens to the spirit *nowadays* and no longer to the body? Hmmm.... I guess healing had to be "adjusted" at some point now that medicine is better and thus more easy to see how *body* healings are fake. Pretty convient. Now isn't that special? hmmm? (church lady quote) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I used to go to this one church where they would have this prophetess named Joyce Still come and speak. She was Christianity's version of a psychic. She'd pull people out of the audience and "prophesy" over them, giving them a message from the lord. Anywho, she would tell people that they were afflicted with some disease or another, cancer of some organ, diabetes, gout, and goiters were favorite afflictions, but mysteriously no one knew they had it. The "healed" people then in the next few weeks would always stand up and testify of their "healing". They had gone to the doctor, like Joyce had instructed them to do, and low and behold they didn't have the disease. They were miraculously healed! Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogilvy Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 another dodgy thing they used to say was that when a person got prayed for and didnt look to be healed, they should thank God for the 'healing', and believe that they HAD been healed, because God had promised to answer prayer, so they must be healed. i think Jesus said something along the lines of this, i just cant remember what now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 It's a way of further reinforcing the delusion that "something" out there is okay, while you can't see it for real here. It's brainwashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RevDDM Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Sadly, no such healing is probable... it is possible, but it doesn't happen that way (at least, not anymore). There were times I wished God would heal certain people miraculously, and it never happened. Let me guess, it only happens to the spirit *nowadays* and no longer to the body? Hmmm.... I guess healing had to be "adjusted" at some point now that medicine is better and thus more easy to see how *body* healings are fake. Pretty convient. Now isn't that special? hmmm? (church lady quote) Actually, I was referring to the fact that the Spirit's main goal in this time is to inspire Believers, and provide knowledge, through subtle signs and theories. As to why more people don't get healed, I can't say. I can't pretend to know what God's up to all the time (as some do). All I can say is that "miracle" healings have been recorded, and scientific research at various hospitals has concluded that faith and prayer can have a psychosomatic effect in the aide of healing, but it's not so common as it used to be. It may be that the miracles were meant to confirm the Gospel (for further references, see the works of Josephus and Pliny the Younger). However, today, miracles are definitely hard to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Sadly, no such healing is probable... it is possible, but it doesn't happen that way (at least, not anymore). There were times I wished God would heal certain people miraculously, and it never happened. Let me guess, it only happens to the spirit *nowadays* and no longer to the body? Hmmm.... I guess healing had to be "adjusted" at some point now that medicine is better and thus more easy to see how *body* healings are fake. Pretty convient. Now isn't that special? hmmm? (church lady quote) Actually, I was referring to the fact that the Spirit's main goal in this time is to inspire Believers, and provide knowledge, through subtle signs and theories. As to why more people don't get healed, I can't say. I can't pretend to know what God's up to all the time (as some do). Oh sure you can! You do it all the time, you are even saying so in the sentence before the "I can't pretend" crap. Funny, say you CANNOT do something after, uhm.. doing it... All I can say is that "miracle" healings have been recorded, and scientific research at various hospitals has concluded that faith and prayer can have a psychosomatic effect in the aide of healing, but it's not so common as it used to be. It may be that the miracles were meant to confirm the Gospel (for further references, see the works of Josephus and Pliny the Younger). However, today, miracles are definitely hard to come by. Nope. No they have not. Show me a NON RELIGOUS scientific source. Praying to god is AS EFFECTIVE as praying to a loaf of bread. --------------------------------- psy·cho·so·mat·ic Function:adjective Etymology:International Scientific VocabularyDate:1863 1: of, relating to, concerned with, or involving both mind and body <the psychosomatic nature of man — Herbert Ratner> 2 : of, relating to, involving, or concerned with bodily symptoms caused by mental or emotional disturbance <psychosomatic symptoms> <psychosomatic medicine> — psy·cho·so·mat·i·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb --------------------------------- Basically that means it's ALL IN YOUR HEAD. Kinda like the placebo effect. Prayer ACTUALLY does nothing at all, other then the placebo effect, which explains why even muslims *think* it works, it's all in their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Actually, I was referring to the fact that the Spirit's main goal in this time is to inspire Believers, and provide knowledge, through subtle signs and theories. As to why more people don't get healed, I can't say. I can't pretend to know what God's up to all the time (as some do). Rev, an equally interesting question would be why the Spirit evidently failed to inspire, provide knowledge, signs, etc., to all the former Believers on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Actually, I was referring to the fact that the Spirit's main goal in this time is to inspire Believers, and provide knowledge, through subtle signs and theories. As to why more people don't get healed, I can't say. I can't pretend to know what God's up to all the time (as some do). All I can say is that "miracle" healings have been recorded, and scientific research at various hospitals has concluded that faith and prayer can have a psychosomatic effect in the aide of healing, but it's not so common as it used to be. It may be that the miracles were meant to confirm the Gospel (for further references, see the works of Josephus and Pliny the Younger). However, today, miracles are definitely hard to come by. Source? ... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 .... did anyone experience anything real? Nope. Never saw anything even slightly miraculous, nor even vaguely spiritual, nor possibley even remotely spooky at all. Period. Never. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 http://www.religioustolerance.org/medical4.htm I think that that may hold the key to both views where prayer has been 'proved' to help and has been 'proved' not to help... The more you read the more Delphic it all becomes... I don't necessarily think I agree with this Some past studies have shown that prayer promotes healing. However, none have reached the level of certainty required to produce confidence that a real effect is being observed. Many of the studies have been defective in their organization, so that researcher or subject bias affected the results. A large meta-study has shown that prayer may neither aid nor inhibit healing. It is unlikely that any study into the effectiveness of prayer will fully convince everyone. If a properly designed study were conducted which proved beyond reasonable doubt that prayer works, the results would profound effect on both religion and medicine. It would force scientists and physicians to review their basic understanding of the universe. Since it could have an impact on theologians too, since it doesn't prove there's a God listening like some cosmic Radio Ham, but it opens the door for there being some 'spooky action at a distance' effect of the human mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelloChick Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 http://www.religioustolerance.org/medical4.htm I think that that may hold the key to both views where prayer has been 'proved' to help and has been 'proved' not to help... The more you read the more Delphic it all becomes... I don't necessarily think I agree with this Some past studies have shown that prayer promotes healing. However, none have reached the level of certainty required to produce confidence that a real effect is being observed. Many of the studies have been defective in their organization, so that researcher or subject bias affected the results. A large meta-study has shown that prayer may neither aid nor inhibit healing. It is unlikely that any study into the effectiveness of prayer will fully convince everyone. If a properly designed study were conducted which proved beyond reasonable doubt that prayer works, the results would profound effect on both religion and medicine. It would force scientists and physicians to review their basic understanding of the universe. Since it could have an impact on theologians too, since it doesn't prove there's a God listening like some cosmic Radio Ham, but it opens the door for there being some 'spooky action at a distance' effect of the human mind... Yes. There is a spooky action at a distance factor in prayers for healing. At 27, I got really sick. 14 months later I found out I had a rare neuromuscular disease. Two weeks later, I found out my rare neuromuscular disease was caused by a cancerous tumor. Let me tell you, at 28, that scared the shit out of me. When I first got sick, I was a Christian. Church was the center of my life and world. I had people praying for my survival when I had major surgery, and I can tell you, the prayers helped because I knew I wasn't alone. I could feel the concern and care. So, that helped and was huge. However, after my cancer was cured, I had a progressive, incurable, slowly fatal neuromuscular disease to deal with. There is a shadow side to being sick in the church. People prayed for me to be healed, but I was getting worse and not better. If I pray and God doesn't heal me, what's wrong with my prayers? I prayed, fasted, and just about turned myself inside out to get well. And on top of that, there was intense pressure to be "purified" by this experience. "Tested" and "Made Holy" while other people watched for their edification. Of course there were painful comments, too. "If you had enough faith, you could walk again." "God never gives you more than you can handle." "God has a great plan for your life!" I wanted to scream, "IF YOU LIKE GOD'S PLAN SO MUCH, TRADE PLACES!" But, of course, I kept my mouth shut and nodded like a good Christian. Because I was a good Christian. I wanted to believe. But getting sick eroded my faith. In church, there was pressure to somehow be "transformed" by illness. Like getting cancer and a neuromuscular disease was some huge cosmic test I needed to pass. And of course, I was told by church leaders that I was doing it wrong! I wasn't showing enough faith. Or I had a complaining spirit. I endured a two hour lecture on my lack of faith, because I was afraid of having my chest cracked to remove a tumor over my heart. Excuse me? Yeah, that was exactly the help I needed in that moment. I was supposed to be this holy super saint. "Thorn in the flesh." "Job." "I can do all things through God who gives me strength." On and on it went, and I kept trying so hard to be faithful as my body fell apart. But the pain from the church was worse than the pain from my illness. Going to church made me feel like I was in a weekly sideshow act. So, I quit going to church. But, I still believed. I still prayed for God to heal me. Being ill, and praising God for his great plan for my life, didn't work. It made me crazy. Finally, I decided this must be God's plan B for my life. Because if this unholy disaster is God's Plan A... then God is evil beyond my ability to communicate. I had to rethink my ideas about God. I quit believing in an all powerful, perfect, holy, judgmental, Biblical super being. I gradually started to believe in a spirit of goodness and peace who can't fix my problems, but cares about how I'm doing. A lesser god. Trusting this lesser god brought me inner peace. Bible God didn't. Sure, I created the lesser god out of my own imagination. I'm aware of this. But, remember Dumbo and his magic feather? Dumbo couldn't fly without the feather. I sometimes need my lesser god. Sometimes I don't. But, whatever I'm doing... it's working, because I'm still here. August 21, 2008 is my 10 year cancer free anniversary. April 15, 2008 I'll have been fighting a neuromuscular disease for 11 years. And guess what, I'm gonna make it 11 more! But, I won't be praying to Jesus for healing. I'll be thanking my oncologist and neurologist instead. To Science be praise and glory, because without science, I'd be dead. CelloChick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Thought I was healed of diabetes as a young teen. Damn near died before they got me back on my insulin. The beginning of the end (of my xtian days.) When I was a christian, i spent two hours convincing another christian NOT to quit taking his insulin. People want to prove themselves to god and often it is a fatal choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Actually, I was referring to the fact that the Spirit's main goal in this time is to inspire Believers, and provide knowledge, through subtle signs and theories. As to why more people don't get healed, I can't say. I can't pretend to know what God's up to all the time (as some do). All I can say is that "miracle" healings have been recorded, and scientific research at various hospitals has concluded that faith and prayer can have a psychosomatic effect in the aide of healing, but it's not so common as it used to be. It may be that the miracles were meant to confirm the Gospel (for further references, see the works of Josephus and Pliny the Younger). However, today, miracles are definitely hard to come by. COP-OUT ANSWER ALERT! You side stepped that one. 'through subtle signs and theories.' Do you really believe this stuff? What sign and what theory? Christians can't even get Intelligent Design through the court system! Why? Because it is not founded on proof of evidence but upon faith without proof of evidence. All Christianity is, is a bunch of blowhards collectiing money from people who need the money themselves. They lie about any miracles that have ever happened. And pass laws that protect their religious beliefs and enforces those beliefs against everyone else. There are no miracles and healings because Christianity is a study of lying works and lying wonders. There is nothing in Christianity that has not been lied about and exaggerated to the point of idiocy. Christians give scripted answers to every question about God, which usually come from the current christian best seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 God is very selective about the performance of true miracles. God will not perform such things as raising the dead, restoring lost limbs, or giving sight to the blind unless the following conditions are met: 1. No cameras or recording devices allowed 2. No witnesses with education past the 3rd grade 3. No skeptics can be present People proclaim the word "miracle" for all kinds of ridiculous shit that always falls within the realm of the possible. The remainder of the "miraculous" claims are either the product of ecstatic hallucinations, obvious exaggerations intended to bolster the faith, or intentional charlatanism. Actually, there was a scientific study of the efficacy of intercessory prayer and medical healings. It was funded by the Templeton Foundation under the direction of Dr. Herbert Benson, a cardiologist. There were three groupings of people (totalling 1802 patients) in this study, all of whom had coronary bypass surgery. The groups were: 1. Those who received intercessory prayers, but didn't know it 2. Those who received no prayers, but didn't know it. 3. Those who received prayers and did know it. The results of this study were reported in the April 2006 issue of the American Heart Journal. Among those who were unaware, there was no difference between the patients who were prayed for and those who were not. But, here is the striking thing about this study: among those who knew they were being prayed for, there was a difference. In the wrong direction. They had more complications and negative outcomes than groups 1 or 2. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Probably becuase it never really did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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