Lying For Jesus

[Telesmith]

This is one of a number of incidents that began my leaving Christianity. I wrote it down during the thick of my deconversion.

 

Lying For Jesus

 

It was one of those situations where you may stop at stop signs but sometimes other people don’t. I loved that little car. It was fixable but the repairs would have cost more than the car was worth. Not an economical choice. But I was lucky, a minor concussion and a banged up knee. Nothing about the situation was melodramatic. The doctor gave me a quick once over and I was out in time to eat dinner and go to the Wednesday night service at my church. Nothing about that night’s service was melodramatic either and that - that was a bit of a problem. You see, we were Pentecostals and, well, that meant God showed up when we had church. And by God showed up I mean people shouted, spoke in tongues and a regular slaying in the spirit was expected. To a non-believer it would have looked like a normal religious service and to any other kind of Christian it might have seemed only a little out of place but to us folks, a service like this was a failure. God wasn’t happy.

Before the service I had shared with my pastor and a few friends my latest adventure. They were amused and glad I was ok. Now, after that moment I hadn’t thought about my concussion or my knee the rest of the night. At the end of the service when people were praying, music was playing and the minglers were being kept under control by the ushers so as to not upset anyone’s encounter with God, two of my friends approached me and asked if they could pray for my healing. I wasn’t in pain. I hadn’t noticed my injuries for over two hours. A mild headache that could just as well had been caused by drinking a coke to fast was all but, it was impolite to refuse prayer. “Sure you guys can pray for me.†I closed my eyes and assumed that familiar position, trying to communicate my receptivity to their words and God’s possible intervention with my body language, nodding in sincere agreement as they invoked powerful biblical language and incantations that were sure to bring the Holy Ghost right there and give my headache a God style butt kicking. But I didn’t have a headache.

Here, the crossroad presented itself. I knew with apodictic certainty that in just a moment one of my two friends would say amen and then ask me if I felt any better. Saying no wasn’t an option. I could say yes and privately admit that my headache was near nonexistence and be grateful for my injuries only being slight to begin with or I could say yes, and give a testimony. The matter of which was more honest didn’t enter my mind and that’s my point here. When someone sincerely believes in the truth of God, honesty sometimes has to take a back seat. When it comes down to advancing the kingdom or splitting hairs over the facts, splitting hairs seems, well, less important. One option was clearly more dramatic than the other and excitement was in short supply. You guess which one I chose.

Speaking in church is the easiest kind of public speaking and the more incredible the thing you have to say the easier it is still. That’s a phenomenon hard to explain to people who aren’t religious and even most Christians wouldn’t admit it but when your telling a fantastic story it, in a way, becomes just that: a story. It’s easy to tell stories. Kids do it all the time, never for a moment considering the fact that what they’re saying may in part or in whole not be true.

I retold what had happened that afternoon to my audience of about sixty people. They listened quietly, saving their responses for the climax. “And then down here, right down here†I pointed at the alter “a man and woman of God spoke healing over me and hallelujah I don’t feel a thing.†That last part was true. It’s amazing how well one can manage to lie and speak truth at the same time. I didn’t exactly claim to be the recipient of a miraculous healing but I did. The worship leader stood up and lead a song of praise. The room was revived. People were blessing God and shouting an artillery of biblical phrases up to heaven. I returned to my seat and began to join in but something stopped me. It was guilt. I couldn’t join in. These people were making a big deal out of something pretty small and it was because I lead them to believe that it was a big deal. They’re praising God because I lied. Shit!

Suddenly, I was flooded. Jennifer wasn’t really an alcoholic. Sneaking one or two of your dad’s beers in the middle of the night at a sleep over hardly means you’re an alcoholic but I had convinced myself she was and praised God just the same during her testimony. And, she wasn’t the only one. Steve was not gay, Jeremy was not a druggie, and Holly was hardly a slut. But I went along with all of it. We had all lied. These things were the very premises on which we based our need for salivation.

We were told in evangelism classes that our testimony was our best tool in reaching the lost. They were right, it was. Now I was faced with the question of guessing how many people there had started coming to church because of one of our testimonies. How many people were there because we - I had lied. The funny thing about lying for Jesus is how unlike lying it can feel.

[Grandpa Harley]

Hell, man... thats good.

[Kenny]

How I see my ugly former self!!! You have no way of knowing how it hurt to read your words and know I had done the same thing numerous times. I'm convinced that many others did and are doing it as well.

 

What freedom I have found in not doing things like this anymore! This post hurt, yet it proves to me, once again, that I'm on the right track with the way I'm living my life now. Thank you for your insight and honesty.

[ogilvy]

This is one of a number of incidents that began my leaving Christianity. I wrote it down during the thick of my deconversion.

 

Lying For Jesus

 

I retold what had happened that afternoon to my audience of about sixty people. They listened quietly, saving their responses for the climax. “And then down here, right down here†I pointed at the alter “a man and woman of God spoke healing over me and hallelujah I don’t feel a thing.†That last part was true. It’s amazing how well one can manage to lie and speak truth at the same time. I didn’t exactly claim to be the recipient of a miraculous healing but I did. The worship leader stood up and lead a song of praise. The room was revived. People were blessing God and shouting an artillery of biblical phrases up to heaven. I returned to my seat and began to join in but something stopped me. It was guilt. I couldn’t join in. These people were making a big deal out of something pretty small and it was because I lead them to believe that it was a big deal. They’re praising God because I lied. Shit!

Suddenly, I was flooded. Jennifer wasn’t really an alcoholic. Sneaking one or two of your dad’s beers in the middle of the night at a sleep over hardly means you’re an alcoholic but I had convinced myself she was and praised God just the same during her testimony. And, she wasn’t the only one. Steve was not gay, Jeremy was not a druggie, and Holly was hardly a slut. But I went along with all of it. We had all lied. These things were the very premises on which we based our need for salivation.

We were told in evangelism classes that our testimony was our best tool in reaching the lost. They were right, it was. Now I was faced with the question of guessing how many people there had started coming to church because of one of our testimonies. How many people were there because we - I had lied. The funny thing about lying for Jesus is how unlike lying

 

thanks for that post. i think its important to know that christians do this kind of thing. i havent had anyone tell me before, so its great, because it helps me make sense of things. i think it must be as you said, that people do it for the 'glory of the kingdom', as if God couldnt look afer his own interests. i always felt that why all the fake things happened in the pentecostal meetings was because the people wanted them to happen, thought they should happen, and tried to make them happen. and that they all picked up from each other the way of doing things, like 'God's saying to me that there are 5 people here who need healing. someone's suffering from migraine..' etc. i was pretty sure the apostles wouldnt have gone on like that. it reminded me of la 'pyschic' lady called Doris Stokes who used to hold audience with people, as like a show, and tell things about them she 'couldnt have known'. it seemed very cheap to me, to go on like that in the name of Jesus in church. i thought it would have been better to be honest and say 'God's not telling me anything tonight'. that would have given a person credibility in my eyes.

 

i came to the view that signs and wonders had ceased after the apostolic days. i was shown that from scripture and it seemed right. but people think signs and wonders are meant to happen, and somehow they are willing to deceive themselves and others rather than admit 'nothing's happening'.

 

thats what depresses me about christians now. they wont face things honestly, and will use any excuse to explain things which dont make sense. yet christians are meant to be truthful.

[ogilvy]

along the lines of 'lying for Jesus', i have to admit that i did something similar re teaching bible classes to children, or in 'witnessing'. to answer objections i sometimes parroted wishy washy unproved defences that i hadnt actully looked into. like dinasaurs and humans existed at the same time, and that dinasaurs are mentioned in the bible. the thing is, that creature creationists say is a dinasaur could have been a crocodile. and i've used that awful free will argument re why God let evil come to the world, the response that is driving me mad now when christians say it to me! that and i've said that all the seeming contradictions in the bible can be explained. and other things which i hadnt really any basis for saying authoritatively at all. i guess my reasoning was that there must be some explanation, becos the bible coldnt be wrong, so the exact details didnt matter, it was more important to portray the bible as correct and God as good. hmm. i feel ashamed now of a lot of the things i've taught children.

[Telesmith]

Hell, man... thats good.

 

Thanks Gramps. The complement means a lot!

 

How I see my ugly former self!!! You have no way of knowing how it hurt to read your words and know I had done the same thing numerous times. I'm convinced that many others did and are doing it as well.

 

I can say of myself and many others I know that religion was the most evil thing about us. I was a pretty nice guy until I started talking God. Then I jerk at best and a bigot at worst.

 

What freedom I have found in not doing things like this anymore! This post hurt, yet it proves to me, once again, that I'm on the right track with the way I'm living my life now. Thank you for your insight and honesty.

 

Nod!

 

along the lines of 'lying for Jesus', i have to admit that i did something similar re teaching bible classes to children, or in 'witnessing'. to answer objections i sometimes parroted wishy washy unproved defences that i hadnt actully looked into. like dinasaurs and humans existed at the same time, and that dinasaurs are mentioned in the bible.

 

Oh, man. guilty myself of this. I can't recall how many times I passed the buck with terribly suspicious credulity.

[R. S. Martin]

Folks, thanks for the confessions. Since being on these forums I've been getting the message the Christians do go so far as to lie if necessary. But I had no idea anyone does it so regularly and with so much impunity. This makes so much sense of so many things I felt deep down could not be true yet I felt guilty for not accepting people's word for it.

[Kenny]

At or about the peak of my faith, I was heavily involved in travelling music ministry and I've mentioned that in other posts. It's not very difficult to predict or sway a large audience - especially if they're gathered for a specific purpose. We'd finished performing and a woman and her adult daughter came up to me and the mother was saying how much she'd enjoyed our music. The daughter liked it, too, which surprised the mother because her daughter had walked away from religion years ago. The mother asked that I pray for her daughter and give her a "message from the Lord". I'd never seen either of these women before, but I was feeling ultra-spiritual and immediately after a performance, I was still feeling the need to perform and not let these people down. I began making general blanket statements about the daughter's life (a combination of basic life stuff and things I've heard people say over the years in the church) and I immediately saw both of them react. Well, I'm on fire, here, ya know? So I kept going and going with the general statements and they've got their hands up, they're crying, people are starting to gather around and pray with them... but they weren't the center of attention. I was! I felt even more excited that I had been on stage just moments before. Even my band members were telling me how heavy it was. I was just "in the zone" and the moment was right for everyone and I was lying my ass off. It was just a show and immediately afterward, a very guilty conscience led me to vow never to do anything like that again.

 

I tell this story not because I'm proud that I tricked everyone that day, but to say that those women wanted something that day and I felt great pressure to give it to them and I did. If a simple person like me can pull it off at that level... I'll just leave it at that. You know where I'm going. And the bad thing about that kind of deciet and trickery is that it becomes welcome, accepted, and expected - if something like that DOESN'T happen, then God didn't show up. Add people throwing money at you to do it and... I'm gonna leave it alone again.

 

Recently, an old friend and I were talking and he got all deep in religious conversation and felt we needed to pray. I was intensely bored, but hadn't seen the guy in a while and we'd worked together in ministry for a time, so I was being respectful in listening to his conversation and his prayers. He's praying like crazy, I'm standing with him being polite, and he suddenly stops and tells me that God is telling him that I have a message for him - that I've got something to say to him that's going to really bless him and challenge him in his walk with the Lord and he asked if I'd speak that word to him. He wanted this from me very badly. I knew in my heart that God wasn't telling him anything - especially about me having some kind of revelation for him - and it was sad to see him setting himself up like that. I could have told him all kinds of stuff and if he'd have done whatever he chose to do with what I said. His eyes were pleading for SOMETHING from me. All I could do was give him a little smile and tell him, "I got nothin' for you, man. I'm sorry." He was confused, the moment was awkward for him, and by the time we parted, he knew I wasn't the same person he'd known years ago. I, on the other hand, felt wonderful and above all else, honest.

 

Reading this post, seeing the discussion... it's like a cleansing for me. Do I owe anyone any cash for this? It surely can't be free of charge!

[Sophronia]

Reading this post, seeing the discussion... it's like a cleansing for me. Do I owe anyone any cash for this? It surely can't be free of charge!

 

Actually, I have a word from the LAAAAAWD... that you will soon be making a large deposit into my Google checkout account. This will be Seed Money, the giving of which will enrich your spirit, and glorify my bank account.

 

Ha ha ha. I too would like to express appreciation for the honesty and courage shown in this thread. While I cannot think of specific circumstances in which I was verbally misleading, certainly I used to be a good performer when it came to getting Slain In The Spirit and such. (See related thread...) And being a writer, I could always be counted upon to come up with cool-sounding Prayers and such. One lady even called me a "Prayer Warrior" one time and I puffed up a bit. Now I'm thinking - ew.

[ExConfusedChristian]

That was great Telesmith - thanks for sharing.

[GraphicsGuy]

*sigh* Yup, been there, done that too. The worst part is, I think I even believed myself when I would do such things. I was severely messed up.

[R. S. Martin]

I tell this story not because I'm proud that I tricked everyone that day, but to say that those women wanted something that day and I felt great pressure to give it to them and I did. If a simple person like me can pull it off at that level... I'll just leave it at that. You know where I'm going. And the bad thing about that kind of deciet and trickery is that it becomes welcome, accepted, and expected - if something like that DOESN'T happen, then God didn't show up. Add people throwing money at you to do it and... I'm gonna leave it alone again.

 

You might want to read up on shamanism. Grandpa Harley posits this idea in the thread What Is A Personal Relationship With Christ. I think he also provides a link somewhere.

[ShackledNoMore]

Sorry for piping in so late, but I just now read this thread, and it's worth it.

 

I think this is strongly characteristic of pentecostals, but not limited to them. I was a pentecostal when I deconverted, but before that I was raised as a catholic (until I was about 12 or so). I used to get pretty stressed out when I had to go to confession. I was a pretty well behaved kid and I kept having to come up with these sins that I had committed. One week I was playing with another kid and one of his toys ended up at my house and I didn't bring it back that same day when I noticed it. I told the priest that I had stolen the kid's toy. It was a lot like the testimonies discussed in this thread which I later became familiar with as a pentecostal: there was a basis of truth, but I was kind of stretching things. I returned the toy, not in penitence, but more as a matter of course: I never intended on taking the toy, nor would I otherwise not have returned it.

 

I also found a substantial element of lying to oneself that went along with lying for jesus. Someone would pray for you, you'd rationalize that you felt a little better and tell yourself that the lord had healed you and then spew it out as your testimony.

 

And although my pentecostal brainwashers were more damaging to my sexuality than my catholic brainwashers, in a way I'm kind of glad I was redirected to the pentecostal version of the cult before I learned about . I suppose I would euphemised things to instead say that I had lusted after a woman.