Sophronia Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'd like to open a topic for discussion which I'm importing from Pippa's "Deconverting From What?" thread. Since deconverting one of the biggest mental issues for me has been How To Think Of Jesus. Here I will paste some of my comments from the other thread, edited a bit: How do I think of Jesus now that I no longer believe he is God? Here are some of the possible options: 1. Jesus was a Good Teacher, who was simply misrepresented and misunderstood. He taught peace-n-love. If followed with a good heart, his teachings can be helpful and even spiritual. (I would like to believe this but fear it is just a "feel-good" option.) 2. Jesus did not actually exist. 3. The teachings of jesus have been so diluted, repackaged, and "spun" by other people that we will never know what he was really like. 4. Jesus was insane, a deluded person thinking that he was God. 5. Jesus was a religious fanatic who did NOT teach pure love and peace. At times he preaches violence and other things that do not seem so Good. He also contradicts himself in various ways according to the accounts we are given. For instance check out this page which makes some interesting points: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/jesus.htm Why is this all so important to me? Well, I am not an atheist; I am a Pagan. I still consider myself a spiritual person and if the teachings of Jesus might be relevant, I do not want to throw them out completely. But I am so grossed-out by Christianity in general, and the behaviors and close-mindedness of specific Christians, that it makes me not want to hear about Jesus. I'm beginning to think that #3 is the most likely alternative, and that exploring the true nature of Jesus will just be a waste of my time. Thoughts? How do YOU think of Jesus after deconverting? got any other options to add to the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 2. Jesus did not actually exist.3. The teachings of jesus have been so diluted, repackaged, and "spun" by other people that we will never know what he was really like. 4. Jesus was insane, a deluded person thinking that he was God. I lean to these three. If the first is correct, and it might be, the other two don't matter. If he did exist, then 3 and 4 apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 i guess Insanity would explain a lot of the contradictions in his teachings. There's all that stuff about how Jesus would go off by himself to pray. Then he would come back, curse fig trees, smash stuff in the temple and so on. Maybe he was bipolar????? That would explain a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I would tend to agree with number 3 as well, but lean towards number 2. There is also the thought that Jesus may be a conglomeration of a number of wandering "philosophers" during the time. I think it is very likely that Xianity may have been an attempt to bridge the Jewish faith and paganism and/or the rest of the world (re: Roman Empire) religions. Still, as for what I think of Jesus. Well, for one if he did exist, if the Bible is true, and if he really is a spook in the sky then I actually don't trust him. The Bible promises a lot and comes through on none of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 I realize that in the past, I've never really considered Option 4, which is not incompatible with Option 5. In the event that Jesus did exist, and if the stories we have of him are anywhere near the truth, I think I could accept these (#4 & 5). But ultimately, since I Wasn't There, and Lack The Time To Do Proper Archeological/Historical Research, and given that All Findings Should Be Questioned, #3 applies. It helps me a lot to set all these options out and consider each one in a logical (well, semi-logical) manner. I haven't done this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalhh Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I doubt that Jesus existed. And if he did he was quite mad. Not completely, even sometimes gave some gems of wisdom, but still at moments quite mad in deed. I believe he was probably a character based on many different people and few of them were probably philosophers. That's really my take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 If you study Plato and the other Greek philosophers, you'll come to notice there are some ideas that resemble each other. The Gospels are very influenced by Hellenistic philosophy and mysticism and mixed with Jewish beliefs. How can it be that God spoke so well through the pagans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Plato did say that a truly righteous man would be hung from a tree, correct? I'm pretty certain that's where they got the idea...crucify the righteous Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 You also have the idea of Forms and Final Cause and how it resembles Logos in John 1:1. The Golden Rule, or the Brotherly Love concepts or love your neighbor and so on, also from Greek (and somewhat Jewish too). These concepts keeps on coming up over and over again, through many different religions or philosophies. Even the Chinese have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Exist or not to say that Jesus teachings are overrated is a massive understatement. He taught a mixture of the inane, with a touch of immorality and a hint of trite. He wasn't a good teacher as he never offered the world anything that they haven't gotten better from a large list of others that proceeded and succeeded him. Without Julius Ceasar, 99% of the world would have never heard of him today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 It's #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 What we actually know about Jesus amounts to very little. I would say that his teachings in the bible are just other works later attributed to him. Just a man, and a relatively unimportant one in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 3. The teachings of jesus have been so diluted, repackaged, and "spun" by other people that we will never know what he was really like.4. Jesus was insane, a deluded person thinking that he was God. I say 3 - and I think he probably did believe he was one with God. Insane? I tend to doubt it. His teachings were in hyperbole and a different language. If he were in India instead of Galilee, he would not have been thought crazy at all. I think mainly the gospel writers and Paul twisted it. Anyway thanks for giving us more choices than C.S. Lewis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm convinced that Jesus never existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCrystal Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I think about it like the way that Hedwig said in that movie "Hedwig and the Angry Inch": Tommy: "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior?" Hedwig: "No, but I like his work." I'm personally leaning on numbers 2 and 3 of your possible options. First number 2. If that does not apply, then definitely number 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellsybop Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I don't know exactly how I stand on this. I'm still confused to a degree. I tend to think that there might've been someone here that was a pretty good kind of guy, but the bible twisted the heck out of his good side. But then I think that he might've never been here either. But I believe firmly that if he were here he was just an ordinary human like we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I don't know exactly how I stand on this. I'm still confused to a degree. Pretty normal. Takes a while to situate yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 3. The teachings of jesus have been so diluted, repackaged, and "spun" by other people that we will never know what he was really like.I'm leaning towards this one myself. I think there may have been a central figure(s) that might have existed at one time that jump started this whole crazy mess who preached about loving your neighbor and forgiving you enemies. But if he did exist, I think it's impossible to know what he was really like because the bible's teachings about Jesus are just so vague that anyone can easily twist them around to suit their own agenda. And of course it doesn't help that we don't even have the original manuscripts of the bible, so who knows how accurate are current copies and translations even are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 It's 2 or 3. In fact, since 3 is almost certainly true if there was ever a man behind the myth - then I'd say it more or less works out as 2 anyway because whoever Jesus actually was then the Jesus we all know about is completely an invention of the minds of his followers. Plus I think the evidence points to it being 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 2. Jesus did not actually exist. I'm casting my vote for #2. Since you're Pagan, I think you might like this site: Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldApostate Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm inclined to believe that there was some historically insignificant figure involved in Jewish politics that might have been made the central figure of a later developed mystery religion that claimed authority based on an Eastern religion. I don't know that he ever actually taught anything, as I believe that the books we call the New Testament are simply the writings/philosophies of those adhering to and selling the cult. But for some happy historical coincidences and machinations, Jesus would have gone the way of his contemporaries, Isis, Mythra, Bacchus, et al. In other words, if he existed, he didn't mean much to anyone but a small number of followers, and he likely had nothing to do with his own deification or the teachings attributed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 The first thing to remember is that THERE IS NO GOD. Second is that all Judeo/Chistianity is based on a lie, that the World was created by a "God". "God' was created by man. The Bible is a book of lies. There is no evidence that Jesus ever existed. All the stories about Jesus are fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCrystal Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 The first thing to remember is that THERE IS NO GOD. Second is that all Judeo/Chistianity is based on a lie, that the World was created by a "God". "God' was created by man. The Bible is a book of lies. There is no evidence that Jesus ever existed. All the stories about Jesus are fiction. Well, you kind of have to give them the credit of being one of the biggest damn brainwashing cults of all time. That is pretty amazing to achieve. Albeit a destructive, murderous, and horrible cult that promotes self-deprecation, quite possibly one of the biggest cults of all time. Pretty fucking scary there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Maybe he was bipolar????? That would explain a lot. Actually it wouldn't. I am bipolar, and I am NOT violent at all, GODDAMMIT! Seriously, it's a myth that mentally ill folks tend to be violent. The vast majority of them actually aren't violent, and it annoys me when I see them depicted that way. As for Jesus, I'll go with #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I tend to lean towards Jesus being a legendary character much the same way King Arthur or Prince Alexander of Troy are/were. That is, there's probably a person at the core of a large accretion of mythology, philosophy, hero-tales, and so on, but he's buried so deep we'll never know for sure who he actually was. I guess that's option... um... 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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