Do College Professor's Earn Their Pay?

[Wendybabe]

I'm an elementary school teacher. I am expected to bring all kinds of entertainment and facilitation to my classroom! I need to engage my students. They have to enjoy everything they do. If they don't learn then I am held accountable for it. I have to work out an intervention plan for any child who is struggling with the curriculum.

Yet, in my Master's program at the University (where I pay $1,200. a semester for) it is a different ball game. The professors come to class and "facilitate" discussion of the previous weeks reading material. This can be a positive experience yet I have sat on my numb ass many a night and wondered to myself, "What the fuck is going on?" This is exactly the opposite of what I do at my job. The only preparation I can see being done on their part is a few pages of penned notes. "Ok" "What did you think the author meant by...." I can't wait to get my graduate degree so I can just bullshit all day!

[Deva]

I got the impression from college that most professors channel their major efforts into publishing books, or if they are art professors, trying to do major works that can get the recognition and tenure. Teaching is a sideline.

 

Also, real teachers have my utmost respect. There are far too few good ones. They have a really tough job.

[Unknowing1]

I'm an elementary school teacher. I am expected to bring all kinds of entertainment and facilitation to my classroom! I need to engage my students. They have to enjoy everything they do. If they don't learn then I am held accountable for it. I have to work out an intervention plan for any child who is struggling with the curriculum.

Yet, in my Master's program at the University (where I pay $1,200. a semester for) it is a different ball game. The professors come to class and "facilitate" discussion of the previous weeks reading material. This can be a positive experience yet I have sat on my numb ass many a night and wondered to myself, "What the fuck is going on?" This is exactly the opposite of what I do at my job. The only preparation I can see being done on their part is a few pages of penned notes. "Ok" "What did you think the author meant by...." I can't wait to get my graduate degree so I can just bullshit all day!

 

It's been my experience that the teaching methods used between k-12 and higher education are different but I by no means am an expert on it, just basing it on my own experience. It does appear to me though that K-12 teachers are held to different standards. I've yet to see the pressure put upon Higher Ed professors to change their teaching methods to reach each individual student, in fact, my experience has been the opposite that I adjust to the professors way of teaching. But I do believe that they prepare for class (in most cases), grade papers and do meet with students individually but it may not be of the same magnitude.

 

Because of my job I have to deal with higher ed professors and K-12 teachers. I see much more job burnout in the K-12 group then I do in the higher ed group and it is mainly for the reasons that you cite.

 

K-12 teachers are some of the most under appreciated and under paid people in my opinion.

[mwc]

As I see it one is mandatory (k-12) while the other is voluntary. So in the lower grades the students are forced to be there and have to be "forced" to learn. In the higher grades if you want to learn that is entirely up to you and not the professor. If you wish to spend your $1200 only to wash out...that's your choice. It's also not the professor's fault if you spend $1200 and simply can't do the work. Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor or a lawyer or a dancer. That's life. We simply don't want to acknowledge that in the lower grades...where anyone can grow up to be president.

 

mwc

[Unknowing1]

As I see it one is mandatory (k-12) while the other is voluntary. So in the lower grades the students are forced to be there and have to be "forced" to learn. In the higher grades if you want to learn that is entirely up to you and not the professor. If you wish to spend your $1200 only to wash out...that's your choice. It's also not the professor's fault if you spend $1200 and simply can't do the work. Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor or a lawyer or a dancer. That's life. We simply don't want to acknowledge that in the lower grades...where anyone can grow up to be president.

 

mwc

 

 

So true!

 

 

EDIT: I just remembered that public colleges and universities are funded in part by tax dollars so shouldn't they be held to a different standard, one more in keeping with the thought process in K-12?

[R. S. Martin]

I don't know about schools in other countries but the universities where I have studied here in Ontario have students fill out course evaluations after every single course. I also know that teachers are hired in part based on student evaluations. Those course evaluations ask some pretty specific questions about the performance of the prof. The reason: Popular teachers attract more students to the school, which in turn serves the Bottom Line. The Board of Supervisors (or whoever is above the profs) gets to see those evaluations before the profs see them. They are typed out so that profs don't know which student said what.

 

Profs must also turn in the grades of the classes they teach. Someone keeps tab on whether or not the grades are in keeping with some standard or other. While profs have a lot of autonomy, they must meet rigid standards for the most part. (I think there's the odd old-timer of part-time factulty that manages to slip through undetected.)

 

I agree with Unknowing. There's a major difference between the student body of k-12 and higher education. The second are adults and should take responsibility for their education, whereas the first are legally dependents for whose education the state is responsible. I think if people find their education boring they are probably studying for the wrong field. Switch to something that intrigues you no matter how boring the classes or how difficult the assignments, and you will probably love your work.

[Beowulf]

I think it depends on the school and the subject. I've some professors where the class was worthless, and I've had some where I really learned a lot.

 

I've seen this from both sides. I've taught grades 1-8 for many years, and I know the preparation and hard work that goes into teaching. I'm an administrator now, and I can assure you that the hard work doesn't end when you leave the classroom. My wife is a college professor at a liberal arts college, and she is constantly working. While I might envy the number of classes she teaches, the amount of preparation and the attention she gives to individual students was no less than what I did when I was in a K-12 classroom.

[Guest xyz3]

I agree that k-12 teachers are underappreciated, but I also think that good college professors are underappreciated. In order to "facillitate discussion" in a way that leads to learning and deeper thoughts, the professor needs to know the subject inside and out (which means they need to be constantly studying just as much as the students, if they are any good), and also have the skills to know when and where to interject information or dwell on a subject or when to move on. This sounds easy to people who don't do it, but in my experience there are many professors who simply do not have these skills, and I think there are few things more important in this country than people learning how to have intelligent dialogue together. Teachers of all stripes, elementary, high school and college are underappreciated.

[R. S. Martin]

xyz3, you make some excellent points. My experience has been the professors really love students who demonstrate interest in the course that is being taught. Out of dozens of professors I had, two or three at the most let me know that they did not appreciate my natural curiosity and spontaneous questions. At least that many let me know overtly that they really liked having me in their class for this specific reason. The vast majority were either neutral or rewarded my behaviour more subtly.

 

Office visits or personal chats after class often got me answers when I did not understand or needed something. Professors are people and they like to be acknowledged as such. The time they can spend with an individual student is limited, but if they see that a student is trying and that the extra time they spend talking with the student results in better papers, they feel rewarded--it was time well spent. That student is more likely to get favours from that professor in the future. I know I got favours from profs otherwise known as hardnosed, hard-driving heartless task-masters. It so happened that they were teaching topics that absolutely enraptured my whole being so that I was willing to cross mountains and overlook all kinds of crusty exteriors and "bad" language to get what I wanted/needed. After all, they were paid to serve me and if they said they were too busy to see me I asked when they would have time to see me.

 

What I am saying is what I said before, if you're an adult and bored in class it's not all the prof's fault. It might be your fault for being in the wrong school, the wrong program, or some other wrong fit.

 

I had one prof who was just plain lazy. But somehow he had the charisma to get elected for Best Teacher of the Year Award at a school that had thousands of teachers. He won over the lazy students (read majority) by accepting token assignments in leau of real assignments. For example, when I took his course, introducing a guest speaker counted for perhaps 33% of my grade instead of writing a short essay. Others set up chairs for the class as part of the grade. This made it easy for him because he didn't have to grade any papers. All he had to do was witness the act and report the grade.

 

He did this kind of thing for classes twenty years before me and also after me. It wasn't just a freak term when I took it. Students in this for real felt cheated. Students in it for an easy grade were okay with it. I was in this particular course mainly for the grade so I didn't care a lot. I was, and still am, disgusted with the fake.

[woodsmoke]

I think part of the problem is also the fact there are simply too many students, both in the public "education" system and especially at the college level (ampitheater classrooms, anyone?).

 

One of my favorite classes since attending SLCC was the Intro to Economics course I took during my first year. It almost didn't take, because there were only about 12 students on the roll, and only 6 of us ever bothered to show up regularly. I realized fairly quickly economics is not something I've much interest in, but it was obvious from the start the professor really loved teaching, and because there were only half a dozen of us there he was able to go further in-depth into the material and deviate from the syllabus at times in favor of a more engaging part of what we were learning. I busted my ass to do well in that class and damn well earned the B- I got out of it, and I've never been more proud of a grade.

 

Comparatively, I've taken pol sci and philosophy courses in which I was much more interested in the actual course material, but didn't engage me nearly as much because the professor had to juggle the needs and grades of 30+ students.

[R. S. Martin]

I think part of the problem is also the fact there are simply too many students, both in the public "education" system and especially at the college level (ampitheater classrooms, anyone?).

 

<snip>

 

Comparatively, I've taken pol sci and philosophy courses in which I was much more interested in the actual course material, but didn't engage me nearly as much because the professor had to juggle the needs and grades of 30+ students.

 

Wow! you must be in a small school to get into classes where the norm is only 30 students. Yes, I've been in ampitheater classrooms. Because of my low vision I'd sit in the front row so I could see the overhead projector or blackboard. That put me in a position where I could ask questions, but sometimes we also got questions from the back--halfway up the wall. Those rooms are built so one can hear really well. One prof kept telling students to stop whispering because it disturbed her when she was lecturing. She told them, "I can hear what you are saying." I could hear their questions, too, even when they came from the back. In smaller classrooms (100 students) that were on the level, often students had a problem hearing questions from distant parts of the room and the prof had to repeat them.

 

In those very large classes of several hundred students, they use computer graded multi-choice exams or human graders (students of more advanced standing also known as teaching assistants or markers) to mark assignments. About half of my undergrad classes were in classes of 30-50 students. I am rather uncomfortable in small classes of only half a dozen students because there is no place to "hide." 20 students is about my comfort zone--that's few enough people to get to know people but lots enough to cover for each other so that one student does not have to input all that much.

 

Woody, that economics class sounds interesting enough that even I might have gotten a passing grade.

[woodsmoke]

SLCC is actually the largest college in the Salt Lake valley, but yeah, it's still a community college, so the classes tend to be much smaller than those at the U or BYU.

 

I normally like to blend in with the crowd as well, but I absolutely love the academic atmosphere sometimes found here at the school, and being in a tiny class like that really gave it a "classical," somewhat informal feel that enhanced the whole experience.

[R. S. Martin]

I guess I don't know what those acronyms stand for--SLCC and BYU.

[hereticzero]

K - 8 teachers are under medicated.

[woodsmoke]

I guess I don't know what those acronyms stand for--SLCC and BYU.

Sorry, I suppose I should have taken the geographic disconnect into account. SLCC = Salt Lake Community College, BYU = Brigham Young University

[R. S. Martin]

I guess I don't know what those acronyms stand for--SLCC and BYU.

Sorry, I suppose I should have taken the geographic disconnect into account. SLCC = Salt Lake Community College, BYU = Brigham Young University

 

Thanks. Yes, I thought you lived in Utah, so I thought the U might stand for your state. Or for University. The B might stand for Bob Jones except it is on the wrong side of the continent and then there's the Y--I had no idea. As for SLCC--that was too close to C-Section for comfort with you being a guy and all. Or "slice up the cookies." My imagination knows no limits so it's easier--and often more productive--just to ask.

 

Okay I googled Salt Lake City now and it looks like it's fairly important. Oh well, I can't know all the world's cities with international airports and that host the Olympics during my lifetime. I don't remember ever hearing the name Brigham Young. So thanks for enlightening me.