Fundy "kids"

[GypsyMoon]

As a result, until I deconverted a short time ago, I always refused council from anyone but my parents or my pastor.

 

Grease Monkey! I was thinking of you earlier because of this thread...actually couldn't remember your username...can I use you as a prime example? Yes? Good...step forward please...

 

Here you see a young human female. 16 years old if memory serves? Deconverted, free thinking. Well done!

 

Her parents...fundies. Her siblings...fundies (correct?). Yet, here she is deconverted and waiting to escape her home.

 

Is there a scientific explanation? Is she just rebellious and pissed off at her family?

 

GM...I know you've told your story, but could you sum up and perhaps give some thoughts on how/why you pulled out of Xianity when others around you haven't?

 

I dont mind you using me as an examply Graphics. I actually havent really told the whole story yet... and am kind of just waying it up.

 

yes, my siblings are fundies, and I guess it would take a bit to sum it all up. I didnt really see any difference in Christianity and the rest of the world.. apart from the shocking difference in the way they act, dress, etc.

 

Along with that my experience in a Christian school was far from pleasant, and as I was by far the smallest in the school for a long, long time, I got bullied around a lot.

 

As well as that... it was meant to be a Christian school, but a lot of favouritism went on, and all the other kids were bought up pretty much like the world.

 

I actually had to wag school, and tried to leave home in an effort to be accepted by my so-called peers.

 

I could actually write a whole heap more about this Graphics... but let me know if you want me to keep going.

[GraphicsGuy]

Is it at all possible to at least surmise/explain/consider why you have left the faith and the rest of your family hasn't? I guess that is the primary question of curiosity in this thread...

 

Your best guess as to why you are the only one.

[Vendredie]

I used to be a "fundy kid" up until about 13. I was spewing out bible verses and talking about my faith nonstop until I grew up around 13 and became a liberal non-denominational Christian. At 14 I ditched Christianity and turned to atheism, then Wicca at 15 for a few months, and then back to atheism. I'm an atheist now. I see no point in there being a god. I see little point in following an organized religion. Now I'm 16 and I'm happier than I ever was as a Christian.

 

Also, I know a LOT more abotu history and science than many of my peers. I know more about Christianity than most of my Christian peers. I'm often told that I;m extremely intelligent and mature for my age. I've taken several IQ tests and the results generally fall between 129 and 134. So maybe there is a link between intelligence and belief in God.

 

Of course I'm in all honors classes, so there's always a kid in science who has the urge to preach that the Big Bang/evolution is a myth, and a kid in my World Lit class who feel the urge to say "This character is wrong because I'm a Christian and Christianity is the right way". Argghhhh. How are these idiots in honors classes!? >.<

[GypsyMoon]

Is it at all possible to at least surmise/explain/consider why you have left the faith and the rest of your family hasn't? I guess that is the primary question of curiosity in this thread...

 

Your best guess as to why you are the only one.

 

I think it was painted up for us when we were kids.. apparently when we were babies.. too small to understand anything, dad used to walk up and down the lounge with me in his arms quoting scripture. It actually makes me sick thinking about it.

 

Umm.. seriously graphics.. I would have to think about it for a while to answer that one. Dad is not a pastor, but he acts like it at home.. after every meal, the conversation around the dinner table usually goes to some aspect of the future events... such as "the day of atonement", "Mark of the Beast", etc.

 

Does that answer it?

[GraphicsGuy]

Also, I know a LOT more abotu history and science than many of my peers. I know more about Christianity than most of my Christian peers. I'm often told that I;m extremely intelligent and mature for my age. I've taken several IQ tests and the results generally fall between 129 and 134. So maybe there is a link between intelligence and belief in God.

 

I believe maturity means more than intelligence. There are a lot of smart Xians. Strictly by the numbers, my IQ is higher than yours, but I stayed fundy until I was nearly 33. I was VERY immature though...hormone imbalance was the primary cause of that, but Xianity itself caused a lot of immaturity as well.

 

Any fundy siblings?

 

(I have no bro./sis. so I have no comparison for myself)

[GraphicsGuy]

Umm.. seriously graphics.. I would have to think about it for a while to answer that one. Dad is not a pastor, but he acts like it at home.. after every meal, the conversation around the dinner table usually goes to some aspect of the future events... such as "the day of atonement", "Mark of the Beast", etc.

 

Does that answer it?

 

It doesn't answer the question, but it does give more insight to your homelife.

 

But take all the time you need, seriously. I doubt it's something you've wondered about before and I really doubt there's one, single answer to the question.

 

I'm just curious as to what makes YOU different from your siblings. You're taking this huge step into the real world while everyone else in your family embraces fantasy. It's not uncommon so the question remains as to what makes a young person in your situation break away...

 

It's a very broad question, but I'm just wanting to explore possibilities. Like I said, I doubt there is ONE absolute answer.

[Vendredie]

Also, I know a LOT more abotu history and science than many of my peers. I know more about Christianity than most of my Christian peers. I'm often told that I;m extremely intelligent and mature for my age. I've taken several IQ tests and the results generally fall between 129 and 134. So maybe there is a link between intelligence and belief in God.

 

I believe maturity means more than intelligence. There are a lot of smart Xians. Strictly by the numbers, my IQ is higher than yours, but I stayed fundy until I was nearly 33. I was VERY immature though...hormone imbalance was the primary cause of that, but Xianity itself caused a lot of immaturity as well.

 

Any fundy siblings?

 

(I have no bro./sis. so I have no comparison for myself)

Maturity does play a huge role in it. I'm pretty mature for 16. Then again I was a fundy because I didn't know anything other than Christianity, and I was bullied throughout elementary and middle school.

 

I have two sisters, and while the younger (14) is a total ditz and occasionally goes to youth group with her friends and the older (37) is thinking of sending her son to a Christian school, they're not really fundies. My older sis lives near Virginia Beach (I swear to Gawd if anyone asks me which state VA Beach is in....) so the schools up there suck, and the only private schools up there are Christian schools... epic fail. There aren't any fundies in my family at all, really. My mom is definitely the most religious of either side (Baptist) and she's the only one who cares that I'm atheist. I guess I'm sort of lucky as far as religious family goes, there's no fundies, no church on Sunday (hasn't been since I was 13).

[SWIM]

I think it was painted up for us when we were kids.. apparently when we were babies.. too small to understand anything, dad used to walk up and down the lounge with me in his arms quoting scripture.

 

Not to hijack a great thread, but I have an observation/question. You have "baby" memories? I do too still at age 46, and I have never ran into anyone else that has this level of long term memory. I can remember many things from my deep past, even the early years, yet I have holes in my memory too.

 

I find this a fascinating thing, and it is rare. How far back does your memory go? The ability never really aided me that much in life other then being a curiosity. MY short term memory is certainly nothing to brag about lol. It is however, extremely interesting IMO.

 

/end hijack

[Vendredie]

I think it was painted up for us when we were kids.. apparently when we were babies.. too small to understand anything, dad used to walk up and down the lounge with me in his arms quoting scripture. It actually makes me sick thinking about it.

 

That's scary. When did you get baptized (if you were baptized)? I got baptized at seven. Funnily enough, my belief in Jesus only lasted seven years.

[Taphophilia]

Not to hijack a great thread, but I have an observation/question. You have "baby" memories? I do too still at age 46, and I have never ran into anyone else that has this level of long term memory. I can remember many things from my deep past, even the early years, yet I have holes in my memory too.

 

I find this a fascinating thing, and it is rare. How far back does your memory go? The ability never really aided me that much in life other then being a curiosity. MY short term memory is certainly nothing to brag about lol. It is however, extremely interesting IMO.

 

/end hijack

 

Memory is tied to language ability. The earlier your language skills develop, the earlier you can remember.

[R. S. Martin]

I have baby memories, too, here and there. I also have memories that I can explain only as inutero and birth. I was not speaking at that point obviously. Taph, you say memories are tied to langauge. I don't know if that applies to all people or not. But I was doing my own thinking even as a baby. I remember one situation where older children were trying to get me to laugh. They were poking my face--the kind of thing people do to get babies to smile for them. I could see nothing funny to laugh at so I didn't laugh. I have the distinct impression of being propped in a sitting position by pillows on the table. Must have been very young.

 

The inutero-birth experience. Everything was very peaceful. There was a soft whitish light. I think that might have been inutero. And then something terrible happened and the world turned cold and dark and angry. That might have been birth. I always knew things would one day return to the way they had always been--back to the paradise of calm and peace and white light that was not of the sun. Time passed and during my childhood sometime, maybe around age five I knew instinctively that it would never happen in this world and yet I knew it had once been. I believe this is one thing that kept hope alive in impossible situations, and perhaps it is what gave me strength to keep going.

 

Maybe this is what makes me different from my siblings. Maybe this is why I knew things about religion my siblings never knew. I have a different kind of mind and perceive things differently from them. If I had a choice not to go to church, and deconvert as a child or adolescent, I would definitely have done so. Perhaps this sheds some light on your question, GG, and perhaps it does not.

[woodsmoke]

Also, I know a LOT more abotu history and science than many of my peers. I know more about Christianity than most of my Christian peers. I'm often told that I;m extremely intelligent and mature for my age. I've taken several IQ tests and the results generally fall between 129 and 134. So maybe there is a link between intelligence and belief in God.

 

I believe maturity means more than intelligence. There are a lot of smart Xians. Strictly by the numbers, my IQ is higher than yours, but I stayed fundy until I was nearly 33. I was VERY immature though...hormone imbalance was the primary cause of that, but Xianity itself caused a lot of immaturity as well.

 

Any fundy siblings?

 

(I have no bro./sis. so I have no comparison for myself)

 

I agree, it's kind of disingenuous to draw a parallel between intelligence and (lack of) belief. To go by test scores and academic performance, I've always been rather more intelligent than most of my peers as well (particularly in science and history, just like Ven), yet that honestly had virtually nothing to do with my own deconversion--to the contrary, as Sage stated, that probably just gave me more resources to draw on to defend my faith. When someone said or did something to challenge that, I didn't fire back in an attempt to cover up some nagging doubts because I really didn't have any doubts. My beliefs were True and that was that, and no one else could hope to convince me otherwise.

 

I do agree that maturity plays a role, however--if not necessarily a direct one. Intelligence aside, I've always been arguably more mature than most of my peers as well. Or, at least, I've always been far more comfortable and confident speaking to people old enough to be my parent than people my own age, and I've always been more inclined to think on things far more likely to weigh on the mind of someone with a mortgage than someone who's worries don't extend much beyond where to go out next weekend. I at least know I've spent several orders of magnitude more time thinking of theology, history and mythology than virtually any believer I'm acquainted with (which is to say most of them simply haven't given it much/any thought in the first place), which undoubtedly has a lot to do with why I no longer believe and they still do.

 

What got the ball rolling for me was, ironically enough, the very apathy about which mathgeek lamented upthread. One weekend when my dad was out of town on a business trip, I woke up Sunday morning and just decided I wanted to sleep in for once. So I did. The family went to church, I went back to sleep, the world didn't screech to a fiery halt and life went on. I rather enjoyed the experience, so I decided to do it again the following week. Once again, nothing significant happened and life went on, so I made a habit of it. After a while, I kind of subconsciously came to the realization the only real difference in my life since I'd stopped bothering with religious observation was I no longer had to bother with religious observation. So the internal dialog played out. "If there's no practical difference between believing and not, why bother to believe?" [no answer, because the other internal voice which would have responded had already moved on to other, possibly important matters] *shrug* "Alright, then. Screw that noise."

[GypsyMoon]

Umm.. seriously graphics.. I would have to think about it for a while to answer that one. Dad is not a pastor, but he acts like it at home.. after every meal, the conversation around the dinner table usually goes to some aspect of the future events... such as "the day of atonement", "Mark of the Beast", etc.

 

Does that answer it?

 

It doesn't answer the question, but it does give more insight to your homelife.

 

But take all the time you need, seriously. I doubt it's something you've wondered about before and I really doubt there's one, single answer to the question.

 

I'm just curious as to what makes YOU different from your siblings. You're taking this huge step into the real world while everyone else in your family embraces fantasy. It's not uncommon so the question remains as to what makes a young person in your situation break away...

 

It's a very broad question, but I'm just wanting to explore possibilities. Like I said, I doubt there is ONE absolute answer.

 

 

I will take some time to think about it... I'll have to. I havent really thought about it before... but there are a number of anwers to it.

 

BTW.. my brother does listen to Rock Radio Stations... so he might end up de-converting as well.. but at the moment it is only me.

[GypsyMoon]

I think it was painted up for us when we were kids.. apparently when we were babies.. too small to understand anything, dad used to walk up and down the lounge with me in his arms quoting scripture. It actually makes me sick thinking about it.

 

That's scary. When did you get baptized (if you were baptized)? I got baptized at seven. Funnily enough, my belief in Jesus only lasted seven years.

 

 

I got baptized when I was 4, but I cant remember actually giving my life to god as fundy preachers put it before hand.

 

I only made a "real commitment" on April 1, 2006... so my Christian walk only lasted about 1 1/2 years

[GypsyMoon]

I think it was painted up for us when we were kids.. apparently when we were babies.. too small to understand anything, dad used to walk up and down the lounge with me in his arms quoting scripture.

 

Not to hijack a great thread, but I have an observation/question. You have "baby" memories? I do too still at age 46, and I have never ran into anyone else that has this level of long term memory. I can remember many things from my deep past, even the early years, yet I have holes in my memory too.

 

I find this a fascinating thing, and it is rare. How far back does your memory go? The ability never really aided me that much in life other then being a curiosity. MY short term memory is certainly nothing to brag about lol. It is however, extremely interesting IMO.

 

/end hijack

 

No, I dont have any baby memories... my mum and dad told me when I was bout 7 that that's what dad did when I was little... dad can quote the whole N.T. almost now.

 

I think dad mostly did it because I was sick when I was first born... so he kinda must of did it to settle me down a bit.. not that it did much!

[GypsyMoon]

Something to consider, too, is that a lot of fundy families are incredibly controlling. In controlling families, it isn't safe to express dissenting viewpoints; in fact doing so often invites abuse. I'd bet some percentage of "stupid" fundy kids are parroting the party line because it's what's expected of them, and it's what's safest for them to do.

 

I'm not going to say this is the case for every fundy teen, I just bet it's that way for some - because it sure was for me.

 

That's what I do... I just fake Xtianity until I am old enough to stand up to mum and dad and tell them that I am going to do what I think is best for me.

[GraphicsGuy]

Good stuff, woodsmoke (re: post #38).

 

So is "maturity" the primary culprit?

 

mature: fully developed in body or mind, as a person

 

In body or mind. We all know maturity is a very complex thing. No one can say that by such and such an age you will be at such and such a level.

 

Does the mature mind simply realize it doesn't need God?

[DarthOkkata]

Well, I've been lurking a while. This one kind of struck me though.

 

It's not that the fundy kids are stupid. They aren't, well, some of them. The correct word for the group would be 'ignorant'.

 

As for being more active. I attribute this to 'minionism', a common tactic within many churches. The youth are easily led by congregation leaders. People their parents tell them it's okay to trust. It's something most parents in religious families have done themselves.

 

Think 'Hitler Youth'. It's a useful tool for many reasons.

 

1. Adults are lazy. Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery. Why do something yourself, when your children can do it for you?

 

2. It's much harder to be mean to a child. Especially an exuberant one who is doing what is culturally considered 'good'. Adults tend to be kinder and gentler, often not wanting to disrupt whatever their parents tell them is right. After all, it's their right to fill their heads with lots of unproven assumptions.

 

3. Children have time. They have time to do things, make videos, reports, and a seemingly natural affinity for craft like activities. Especially in the summer.

 

4. It's easier to corrupt a group of children. Sunday school or Bible classes are usually where these overachievers come from. Try getting a bunch of adults to make a macaroni picture of Noah's Ark, or sing Amazing Grace without screwing up the words.

 

5. Children are passionate about everything. I remember thinking He Man and Voltron were amazing masterpieces of entertainment. If I'd had you tube back then, I probably would also make videos arguing about how awesome they both were, and how awesome they would always be. Oh, and that Girls suck. I'll never kiss one. Gross.

 

6. Sponge like information capacity. It doesn't really matter if it's true. You can get a child to remember all sorts of things for a year or so. The why loses importance as they grow older. Only the feeling of smug correctness remains. After all, you remember it being proven to you when you were five, right?

 

In a nutshell, the children are the largest tragedy, and one of the biggest hurdles for an Atheist to argue against. After all, who wants to say "Kid, you're a dumb ass, and your parents are ignorant. I'd explain why, but your Mom and Dad will get upset me if I try and act like you're being persecuted."

 

This would likely result in bodily injury, or a mess of a shouting match amongst the adults. The child would still be confused, and possibly use the event to bolster his belief, hate rational thought, and continue in ignorance anyway.

 

The Anonymous nature of the internet is a gift from Science. Especially when they post such non thought on the internet and ask for response. Have fun with it.

[woodsmoke]

Does the mature mind simply realize it doesn't need God?

 

That may well be part of it, but I'm not really willing to try to pin it down to just one or two causes. The prime factors in my deconversion were apathy and a pragmatic attitude, with a somewhat lesser showing by knowledge and maturity, but I'm well aware of the fact that's no the case for everyone. As with most things involving human beings, I think it all just comes down to individual factors.

[Guest TheWrathofDog]

This bothers me. One of my neighbors sends his two kids to a church school. His son, who's 15 and is named Devon, is in every way a seemingly normal teen but has in all honesty told me that "Scientists claim the Earth is old because of the rocks in it and claim you can tell how old the rocks are by the earth they're in! That's just stupid!" Yep, Devon is sure of the historicity of Genesis and thinks the Earth and everything else is 6,000 years old-- 10,000, tops. His is an ironclad belief system and is not amenable to any logical argument on this topic. Kid's a convinced YEC.

[Amethyst]

Something to consider, too, is that a lot of fundy families are incredibly controlling. In controlling families, it isn't safe to express dissenting viewpoints; in fact doing so often invites abuse. I'd bet some percentage of "stupid" fundy kids are parroting the party line because it's what's expected of them, and it's what's safest for them to do.

 

I'm not going to say this is the case for every fundy teen, I just bet it's that way for some - because it sure was for me.

 

Yeah -- my mother was extremely controlling. So was my former church school. I know in my case, quoting the dogma was what I did to stay out of trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case with other fundy kids.