Telesmith Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 In relation to http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=20783 Looks like a missed the mark completely. My son is now about a month old and no one has said ANYTHING about baptism. So, it seems my fears on the matter where misplaced. What I had not anticipated however was the crap I’d catch from people about circumcision. My wife and I chose not to cut off the end of our kids penis for a number of really good reasons. The procedure has not been conclusively shown to be medically advantageous, it decreases sexual pleasure for both men and women(substantially so for men), causes extreme pain and trauma, propagates a barbaric religion’s notions about sex and its aesthetic benefit is anti-natural, purely western, small minded and dare I say childish. Female circumcision is a human rights violation but male circumcision is a norm. I have yet to hear the any argument distinguishing the two. I’m just amazed at how little critical thought people give to this issue. I have been started at with dumbfounded gazes, argued with, gasped at by both friends and family. I gave most of them an hear full. I have to say I’m just really surprised at peoples’ audacity and stupidity on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I remember facing all these questions before my son was born. Luckily (hmmm not the best word) he spent the first year of his life in hospital and it turned out we had bigger things to worry about than whether he kept his foreskin. Here in British Columbia, about 10 years ago they started charging for circumcisions (universal medical care, we don't usually pay out of pocket for stuff) because they said it was not a medically necessary procedure. Since then, I think it is a much less popular choice. My son is now 10 and his foreskin still does not really retract well. We have been pressured from urologists to have him circumcised now. But no one can give me a compelling reason why. He has no trouble urinating, has had no infections. Why would I put him through that? I'm curious what people are saying to you. Why are they horrified? What do they think will happen to your poor baby in his life if he has a flap of skin on his penis? From a purely sexual standpoint, I find both versions very sexy in their own ways. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I was never clipped...no problems. Just tell him to keep it clean and there shouldn't be any problems...unless he ever gets a yeast infection from girlfriend/wife. Dries up...skin splits...owwwwwwwwwwww! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 First of all a warm welcome to your new baby. And second I commend you for your love for your son--that you love him more than some abstract deity and what people think of it. I read the OP for when you were expecting him. At that time you indicated that you were not ready to tell people of your deconversion. I have no idea how things will play out but this is probably only the first item over the child-rearing project that people will notice that is not religious enough. Some people think it's their business how other people raise their kids. I know what it's like being a kid raised in such an atmosphere. Whatever you do, don't let yourself ever be in material or monetary debt to anyone who thinks they have a right to dictate how you raise your children. My father was in debt to his father so long as his father lived and his family felt a perfect right to dictate how he and Mom should raise us. His younger brother got out of debt and when the family criticized him and his wife they said, "These are OUR children." I guess it worked. They stood up to the old people and they knew where to go. They all subscribed to the same religion, attended the same church every Sunday, listened to the same sermons and worshipped in the same building. So did my parents and us kids. As you're finding, there are all kinds of strange ways to religify (make stuff religious; that's just me making up words) crazy stuff. In our case, mom didn't make us work hard enough, so we didn't learn how to save money and support ourselves. That would not make us good stewards for the Lord, or some such reasoning. I would say, love your baby, raise him according to your values as good as you know how. If you have critical relatives let them know where the boundaries are and enforce them if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I have to say I’m just really surprised at peoples’ audacity and stupidity on this matter. Yes, people are idiots. There is a lot of stupid superstition on this matter. I think you made a great decision. Ignore the doubters, critics and fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 In relation to http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=20783 The procedure has not been conclusively shown to be medically advantageous, it decreases sexual pleasure for both men and women(substantially so for men), causes extreme pain and trauma. What? Not...not fair..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 All three of my boys are uncircumcised and they were all born when I was still a fundy. No one questioned me that I remember. I think it's crazy that family makes this shit their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I applaud you for you decision to not mutilate your son's penis. And yes, I understand your position: it's really crazy that so many people have an issue with not circumcising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I was a Christian when I had my son. The entire reason I had him circumsized was because I didn't want him to be an "uncircumsized Philistine". I remember his pediatrician trying to talk me out of it. I'm not sure if I would have had it done today. Although, I was extremely lucky that the doctor (my gynocologist) who did it was very good and extremely quick. My son didn't even cry. I have asked my son about his being circumsized and he told me that he doesn't know anything different and he doesn't remember it, so it's not a big deal to him. He also told me that it would be embarrassing to be the only uncut kid when he's getting dressed for PE. I do know someone who had to be circumsized when he was an adult, when he was in his forties, and I had to ask about it. He told me that being cut as opposed to being uncut wasn't that much of a difference but he did say that sex was a little better being uncut. Really, it's your kid, so it's your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 He also told me that it would be embarrassing to be the only uncut kid when he's getting dressed for PE. If I had a kid, and this were and issue, I'd probably encourage him to say nice and loud to whoever in the locker room was dumb enough to point it out: "WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT MY COCK??!!!" Really. Loud. Which would be more embarrassing do you think? Being the uncut kid, or being pointed out as the "penis watcher" in the locker room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 In relation to http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=20783 The procedure has not been conclusively shown to be medically advantageous, it decreases sexual pleasure for both men and women(substantially so for men), causes extreme pain and trauma. What? Not...not fair..... Seriously though !?!??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I have been started at with dumbfounded gazes, argued with, gasped at by both friends and family. I gave most of them an hear full. I have to say I’m just really surprised at peoples’ audacity and stupidity on this matter. Tell them you took their arguments into consideration but being his parents you didn't feel that you could make that kind of life decision for him. So, with that in mind, you got him 1/2 of the circumcision now and if he chooses to he can get the rest done when he's old enough. Refuse to discuss it further citing ignorance of the process. Problem solved with good parenting skills and a little compromise. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 My mother raised Cain when they were going to do me... "Unless you're telling me every boy is born with a birth defect you're NOT touching him..." She nearly split her stitches, I'm told... It's a fashion... there is a higher incidence of penile cancer (which is a low incidence cancer across the board) in uncircumcised men, but a MUCH higher proportional incidence of large cell type Prostate cancers in circumcised men... I figured that in the Americas, it was done by the quacks and leech pedlars as a matter of 'course' since they could charge for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no-one Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I totally agree, it is a weird and cruel practice with no clear benefits and many disadvantages. I will certainly not have this done to any of my sons when I have kids. It is pretty rare over here in the UK, I don't think I've ever seen a cut one. Not that I've seen loads of cocks. *shuts up* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 In relation to http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=20783 The procedure has not been conclusively shown to be medically advantageous, it decreases sexual pleasure for both men and women(substantially so for men), causes extreme pain and trauma. What? Not...not fair..... Seriously though !?!??! Throughout my 20s, I conducted ... well, let's call it, an ongoing survey involving a significant number of male subjects. My conclusion: Whether a man is circumcized or not has absolutely no bearing on the female's sexual pleasure. I really cannot say whether it has any effect on the man's experience. I can't figure out how to gauge the pleasure quotient of a man who has been circumsized since infancy with that of another who has been uncut since birth. How would you know which is better, since it's subjective? (What goes on in the head is more important than what goes on in the penis.) I don't think people should have their baby boys circumsized unless it's a medical necessity. On the other hand, I don't think circumsized men need to worry excessively about having been shortchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I figured that in the Americas, it was done by the quacks and leech pedlars as a matter of 'course' since they could charge for it... If my memory serves me right, the whole circumcision circus started with some "doctor" that wanted to promote this as the means to stop "young boys" from masturbating, and nothing else. But I didn't know that had the same practice in UK? On what grounds and when did the Brits get into this business? I find it quite odd that Christians promote this Jewish tradition. Do they do it based on religious grounds? What's next? Christians start sacrificing lambs? I seems like they're jealous of the Jewish faith, and do whatever they can to copy it, even though their own "Holy Book" declares all those things as unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Based on the fact there is a significant difference in the texture of the skin on the glans twixt snipped and unsnipped, there must be a difference... and unsnipped it's it's a lot easier to have one off the wrist... BTW, I DEFINITELY know when my foreskin has rolled back in jeans going commando... the word PAIN springs to mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I figured that in the Americas, it was done by the quacks and leech pedlars as a matter of 'course' since they could charge for it... If my memory serves me right, the whole circumcision circus started with some "doctor" that wanted to promote this as the means to stop "young boys" from masturbating, and nothing else. But I didn't know that had the same practice in UK? On what grounds and when did the Brits get into this business? I find it quite odd that Christians promote this Jewish tradition. Do they do it based on religious grounds? What's next? Christians start sacrificing lambs? I seems like they're jealous of the Jewish faith, and do whatever they can to copy it, even though their own "Holy Book" declares all those things as unnecessary. It was a 'fashion' in the late 50s and early to mid 60s... allegedly for 'health' reasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 It was a 'fashion' in the late 50s and early to mid 60s... allegedly for 'health' reasons... One may wonder why they don't do routine infantile appendectomies too. Just in case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 THey found the use of the appendix last year... but there's more money to be had in emergency surgery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 THey found the use of the appendix last year... but there's more money to be had in emergency surgery... They did? I missed that. The intelligent design/creationists were right after all... damit. -edit- It works as a bacteria reservoir. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 It seems its a breeding ground for micro-flora of the gut... trouble is, if something 'bad' gets in there it breeds too... http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/008200710060921.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-1...-appendix_N.htm http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=3695699 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=...e+theory+school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I see you found it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I know I was circumcized, and it was not even my parents' decision, it was the matter of course at the hospital I was born. When my son was born (he just turned six), it was assumed he would be, since his mom is Jewish. If I have another son, I would not have it done. I think GH's mom had it right, if it ain't medically broke, don't snip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Throughout my 20s, I conducted ... well, let's call it, an ongoing survey involving a significant number of male subjects. My conclusion: Whether a man is circumcized or not has absolutely no bearing on the female's sexual pleasure. Yes, I can attest that I have also spent much of my adult life conducting a similar survey. Definite difference to the texture of the skin, as Gramps has said. In my 20s I remember being a bit put off by falating (sp?) uncut ones... but I do not feel that way anymore. Very hard to judge the whole sexual pleasure deal based on foreskin alone. That old "freak in gym class" bullcrap has got to stop! Penises come in all shapes and sizes (reference above survey) so why would anyone be made fun of for one difference? What if you kids has an unusually shaped, or unusually large or small one? There are a hundred reasons for adolescent boys to mock each other's penises. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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