Finding A Purpose

[Neon Genesis]

I hope I don't sound too whiny and annoying here, but I feel like I need to get this off my chest. Logically speaking, my mind tells me that there is no hell and that hell is an unjust impossibility, but there are still times where I fear it and that I know if hell is real, God will hate me for disobeying him and send me to hell for eternity. But if I'm either going to go to hell when I die anyway or if there is no afterlife at all, what's the point in living if I can't find a purpose to live in this life if this is all there is? People will tell me to choose a career that's something I'm interested in, but no matter how hard or how much I think about it, I can't think of anything I want to do with my life. I just can't think of anything out of life that I want from it. I look around at all my Christian peers that I've grown up with, some of them are the same age I am and they're already all either married or happily in love with someone that cares about them, fulfilled their life's dream, or successfully in the process of about to fulfill it. I feel jealous of them because God has clearly blessed them with happiness and they're blazing ahead in success while I'm still struggling to find a reason just to wake up the next day. And it's not as if I have any sort of special talent or there's anything particularly unique about me that you couldn't find from someone else that's more successful. I know there is no universal meaning of living and that it's up to me to make my own purpose, but how do you find that purpose? And if you can't find that purpose and if there's nothing but either eternal pain or emptiness waiting for us in the afterlife, why bother with trying?

[GraphicsGuy]

Purpose...it's something that's in the back of my mind often. I don't know, man. Don't know what to tell you. I struggle with the same thoughts. I'm pretty much certain (99.9%) that there is no afterlife, but if Xianity is true I am resigned to facing the maker and going to hell. Better to suffer in hell than be a mindless zombie in heaven.

 

However, I believe that a real God would be far more interesting and merciful than Bible God is.

 

Anyway, there are times when I think that closing my eyes and never waking up would be pretty nice. I guess it's determination to not give up that keeps me going. A desire to live life out to see where I end up.

 

No real purpose to it. I'm just curious more than anything.

 

I think a worthy "purpose" to life is helping people. There are so many ways of doing that.

 

Overall though, NG, it sounds like you're depressed and I wish I could help you with that. Depression sucks shit and I hope that you find something to alleviate it. I assume you've been to a doctor? If not, go do it. Maybe they'll find something that helps.

[Grandpa Harley]

When in doubt, I hit the books...

 

Zen and the Art of Making a Living by Laurence Boldt (2nd Ed)

 

and

 

Purpose Driven Life by Robert M. "Mad Bob of the HPL Glee Club" Price...

 

and for moral dilemmas

 

Legend by David Gemmel (What would Druss the Axeman Do?)

[Neon Genesis]

I've been to a psychiatrist before that my parents knew from their church but the psychiatrist was also a fundamentalist and I haven't been back to see that fucking lunatic since the time he tried to change my sexuality which only made me feel more like a piece of shit than before. Since then I've learned to keep my problems to myself but now I don't have anyone to talk to about this with offline besides the fundies. And thank you for the book recommendations, Gramps. I've listened to some of the Reason Driven Podcast and I liked what I heard from their interviews with Robert Price, so I'll definitely check it out now.

[GraphicsGuy]

Go to a doctor man, seriously. Make sure they do some blood work. Check thyroid, hormones, whatever other body chemicals they can check for. Maybe it'll be something fixable...trust me, it's worth it. The difference is unbelievable.

[Kenny]

But if I'm either going to go to hell when I die anyway or if there is no afterlife at all, what's the point in living if I can't find a purpose to live in this life if this is all there is? People will tell me to choose a career that's something I'm interested in, but no matter how hard or how much I think about it, I can't think of anything I want to do with my life. I just can't think of anything out of life that I want from it.

 

I look around at all my Christian peers that I've grown up with, some of them are the same age I am and they're already all either married or happily in love with someone that cares about them, fulfilled their life's dream, or successfully in the process of about to fulfill it. I feel jealous of them because God has clearly blessed them with happiness and they're blazing ahead in success while I'm still struggling to find a reason just to wake up the next day.

 

I want to address these two points of your post.

 

First, you've answered your first question with your own question. You need to see this, okay? If there is no afterlife, then that's the purpose of living! This is our "once around the ride" so to speak. Purpose? For the love o' Pete... YOU'RE LOADED WITH IT. There are a multitude of things you can do that will give you great appreciation of life and all that it has to offer. You'll be amazed at how good you feel doing something nice for someone because you WANT to. Loving someone because they deserve it... and that may be your mom or a lover or a friend. Caring and contributing to your little slice of the planet will do wonders for you, my friend. You have to want that life, however. You'll get past all of this junk. Give it time. The more you shake loose from, the lighter your load will be and seeing the good that life has to offer won't be so difficult. Hang in there. It's worth it.

 

Being married and appearing happily in love with someone who cares about them isn't always as it seems, so don't buy off on that one. Especially if they're Christians. I was a master of hiding deep frustration and dissatisfaction and so was my wife. Many others would rather die than to let you know they have one single problem. I've yet to meet anyone who's fulfilled their life's dream or even know what that is! What to you call success? Evaluate that. Being an excellent employee is success. Being a loyal and trustworthy friend is success. Being a good son, a good brother, a good PERSON is success. If achievement or wealth is your idea of success (and there's nothing wrong with that if it is), then get up and start setting attainable goals. Go! Give it your best shot. If you fail, examine why and learn from it... and then get on that horse again. Comparing yourself to others is a sure-fire way of guaranteeing that you'll be left feeling superior or abysmal - and neither of those are worth a damn. Be YOU. There's only one of YOU. Be the best YOU possible.

 

I forbid you to give up.

[Deva]

Finding a purpose has been a challenge for me also at times. I am single (divorced for 20 years) with only one good friend I can talk with. I can't vent to this person too much. There is only so much you want to burden someone else with, you know? That's why this site is so valuable.

 

I also feel jealous of people who have significant others or spouses where they seem happy. Hey that sure would be nice, even given the fact that appearances may not tell the whole story. But as it is, if there is a crises of anykind with the house or car -- I have to figure out what to do about it myself. The cat gets sick, I must alone make the decision to put it down. The house is more and more difficult to maintain yet I don't really earn enough money for maid service. A lady next door has a stay home husband who is retired that keeps her house immaculately. Not possible for me. I don't have the energy for it. There is no listening ear or helpful input from a partner if something goes seriously awry on the job, which is sometimes very stressful. I feel that no one is in my corner-- you know what I mean? I am sure my parents love me but they are fundies that live 1,200 miles away. In their 70s with their own problems, do they really want to hear that I'm not doing so well sometimes? I always have this fear in the back of my mind the older I get -- what if I have a serious problem with my health-- no one here to help. Being in the line of work that I am-- estates ---I have seen what happens to some old people in my situation It is not a pretty picture. People being found 2 weeks after they died in their homes. It wouldn't happen probably as long as I have a job, but the future isn't promising.

 

There are periods of time when I don't have any driving interests. Usually I get one and immerse myself in it for a few years then I find a new one or an old one comes back on the front burner. I don't know why it happens. I have always been a voracious reader. I think this quality of wanting to know things has saved me a number of times.

 

I have been able to decisively dump the idea of hell. It took a while (years) to do that. I honestly do not believe it exists. However, I have never been able to believe that at the end of this life there is nothing but emptiness. I am here now, why not again? Like a rebirth. I decided long ago that no one really knows what happens after death. I decided its the greatest adventure. People have different ideas, and some seem more likely to me than others. What I am trying to say is that there may be something else than the two alternatives --eternal pain or emptiness. Just work on dumping this "God will hate me for disobeying him and send me to hell for eternity " from your consciousness.

 

Just my take on this difficulty. Hang in there Neon, my friend.

[lib_dem_womyn]

Neon, life isn't about winning.

You will love many people in your life, but typically that only happens after you love yourself, after you accept yourself. I have an irrational fear of hell too, but it reduces with time, and with knowledge.

 

If you don't have abeleive in afterlife, to me that makes your value in this life all the more important. I struggled with finding a niche as well, and after years of looking I found it, started getting an education to do it and realized it was not what I wanted at all, the education that is. I had a terrible time at two universities so I decided to take a step back and just start working. I actually sort of fell into a job, the first job of my life that I got without connections. I like it, I don't love it, but there are a lot of opportunities. I get to help people, and I like that, I like to be good to people.

 

Everyone in my family has a sort of niche, so I was really the odd man out in that sense. Life is going to happen whether you make plans for it or not. If all you can bear to do is work at some McJob, do it. (unles you don't have to work!) Make friends, and reach out to people who think like you, and support your choices. As you are more comfortable with your life, you can choose people as friends that oppose your view points, and enjoy the disagreements and the commonality you will find.

 

Your friends who are happy today might be getting divorced tomorrow, you just don't know. But you can be happy for them while they are in love. To me loving one another is the ultimate goal of being human, when you have emotional connections with others you delight in their joy, and you weep with them in their sorrow. That is what makes life worth living.

 

*hugs* to you Neon, life is definitely worth living. As James Taylor says 'the secret of life is enjoying the passage of time'

[XCCC]

Wow, there are some great words of wisdom here. Neon, I don't know how old you are or what it would be like to be involved in a life where people tell you that who you are is wrong. I do know that I went through years of great anger and some depression, I believe, when I was coming out of my evangelical phase. I didn't date much until I finally met my husband (at 30). I pretty much just worked and asked many of the same questions as you. I feel for you.

 

I think, at that point of my life, that I believed things would be the same until I was 80 years old. That was part of what depressed me. But life is dynamic and things do change. I would bet LOTS of money things will get better for you. You won't always feel this way. Go see the Dr. Read some of those recommended books. Explore the life you can live in freedom and confidence now that you aren't bound by mythical laws and prohibitions. Hang in there.

[SWIM]

I hope I don't sound too whiny and annoying here, but I feel like I need to get this off my chest. Logically speaking, my mind tells me that there is no hell and that hell is an unjust impossibility, but there are still times where I fear it and that I know if hell is real, God will hate me for disobeying him and send me to hell for eternity. But if I'm either going to go to hell when I die anyway or if there is no afterlife at all, what's the point in living if I can't find a purpose to live in this life if this is all there is?

 

It is not set in stone that "this is all there is". There are several atheist speculations and theories that require no god, and point to a very real possiblity that, even though you won't "go" anywhere, heaven or a hell, you might gain consciousness again. Look up a fairly recent thread called "Life after Death" and look for my post there. Easier then re-posting it as it was rather long.

 

Fear of hell is a double edged sword. It cuts in YOUR favor because it "helps" you realize religion is fake by the sheer unjustness of it and it's dogma. The other edge cuts you because it is a latent fear instilled in you early in life. It is in your subconscious and is not easily purged. My dad had a near death experience, which I have grown to believe, after much research, is the product of a dying mind. Your final hallucination as the brain dies. Some children have had NDEs that point to "ninja turtles" waiting for you in the after life. Some see "mohammad" others see jesus, others witness some other form of religion or deep belief symbology. My dad went to HELL in his NDE, he was a catholic. It was "in his head" that he was going to hell, so guess where his dying mind sent him?

 

The best way, imo to purge this, is frequent thought about it, read up on "why" it is illogical to believe this, re-enforce this, talk about it, etc etc. Get it OUT of your system. I "had" a fear that my OWN dying minds hallucination might send me there too, even though I am confident it won't last long, when you FULLY die, you blink out into non-existence, but I personally don't want to encounter what my subconscious defines as hell, and I doubt any of us do, that is why sites like this are important, and reading and thinking about it is important, you want to purge that crap COMPLETELY.

 

 

People will tell me to choose a career that's something I'm interested in, but no matter how hard or how much I think about it, I can't think of anything I want to do with my life. I just can't think of anything out of life that I want from it.

 

I took a somewhat selfish path. The pursuit of money and early retirement. It worked, but I don't think I contributed much to the world or helped many people. However here is a side note:

 

If you pursue money, and succeed, you CAN retire early and do whatever you want for the rest of your life. THEN you can choose to do things you WANT to do inside, without worrying over it's profitability. My daughters are going down this same path, one is quite wealthy already at 25 years old. If you cannot think of anything you would "like" to do, stop looking for what you "like" to do and look for what you "can" do that makes the most money and go for it. Plenty of time later in life to do more meaningful things imo.

 

I look around at all my Christian peers that I've grown up with, some of them are the same age I am and they're already all either married or happily in love with someone that cares about them, fulfilled their life's dream, or successfully in the process of about to fulfill it. I feel jealous of them because God has clearly blessed them with happiness and they're blazing ahead in success while I'm still struggling to find a reason just to wake up the next day. And it's not as if I have any sort of special talent or there's anything particularly unique about me that you couldn't find from someone else that's more successful. I know there is no universal meaning of living and that it's up to me to make my own purpose, but how do you find that purpose? And if you can't find that purpose and if there's nothing but either eternal pain or emptiness waiting for us in the afterlife, why bother with trying?

 

Nobody "blessed" them, the same as nobody is "damning" you. It's just the way life is. Find your way, choose a path, and even though most people would add "stick with it", instead, have the common sense to bail on things you find out are not working out. I bailed on a LOT of things and switched careers, jobs, investments etc etc like people change socks for a while.

 

I worked as a trucker for a year, simply because I just wanted to, not that I needed to. I was shocked how some of my peers were "in the business" for over 20 years. And they say it with pride! Like they are bragging! I pity folks like that, never changing companies or careers, STUCK in a repetitious endeavor. Seems like stagnation to me...

 

Good luck to you, and I hope you find your way!

 

[Grandpa Harley]

There is a Universalist school of thought that you only got to hell if you know you actually belong there...

[SWIM]

One other thing NG, webmaster Dave posted a great video all about hell:

 

http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2008/02...ils-domain.html

[sojourner]

Neon,

 

I know from talking to you that your body right now is fighting some attack of a cold or flu or something and I think its got you down.

 

Listen here Neon, speaking as a woman that is old enough to be your mother and happens to think you are incredibly intelligent, well spoken, with a giant heart and a great personality I want you to know that you are precious to this woman.

 

I want you to take care of yourself, go to bed, get rest, and dont try to think so much while you are sick. Its not profitable. Once you get over this then go after the hard questions of life again with all the gusto you have.

 

You are a fighter, but right now its time to rest and recoup

 

then I expect you to kick depressions butt to the curb with the knowing that you have every chance in the world to find your bliss and follow hard after it and attain it.

 

take care of yourself and know this woman is rooting for you and hoping you feel better soon

 

sojourner

[Neon Genesis]

Thank you for the responses, everyone. I'm not sure feeling sick lately is the main reason for my mood but it probably hasn't helped any either. Sometimes I'll feel nostalgic and listen to my old Christian CDs and look through my old letters I got from friends when I was still a Christian where they would write about how strong I was in the faith and offering words of encouragement to stay strong. I try to act like none of this bothers me any but sometimes when I read them I feel guilty for letting them down and they don't know I'm no longer a Christian yet. And sometimes this makes me nostalgic for the days where I didn't have to think for myself, where I could just turn myself over to "God" and let "him" do the thinking for me, and it makes me wonder if I made the right choice. And it's frustrating because my mind knows this is all absurd but my emotions haven't quite caught up to it.

[Grandpa Harley]

TBH, Neon, old stick, they've let you down as a friend since their friendship is conditional on you having the same imaginary friend as they do... You're a good guy and that SHOULD count, but you know it doesn't, and really that stinks, but the stench of corruption is coming from them, not you...

 

You've let nobody down... and any choice, honestly made, is nobody's business but yours... You can only be true to yourself... and I don't see going back to the God Who Wasn't There is in anyone's best interest.

[Eric_PK]

My purpose in life is to live in ways that are in conformance with my beliefs in how one should live their life.

 

For me, that involves looking for - and celebrating - the pleasures of life where I find them, but not to the detriment of others. Acting honestly and with integrity. Owning up when I fall short of my standards. And trying to leave the world a better place than I found it - whether that be through volunteering, giving money, or even cultivating a hobby with others.

 

Among a whole lot of other things.

 

But I can understand that if you used to believe you had a "higher purpose" - that you would achieve if you followed the proper rules - it's hard to have to make it up on your own.

 

My advice is to spend less time looking at the destination, and more time focusing on the journey. What can you do in the next week/month/year that will make humanity better - whether that be improving yourself (learning, health, etc.), reducing your impact on others, or helping others have more enjoyment and less pain in their lives.

 

I'll finish with a caveat that figuring out this stuff is hard. If you aren't somewhat conflicted by the relative benefit of some of your choices, you aren't making moral decisions. Should I spend time this weekend skiing - thereby making myself and my immediate family happy - or should I use that money/time to improve the conditions or happiness for somebody else?

 

Or to put it another way, I take satisfaction in a life "well lived"

 

You might also head over to the humanism website and read what (some, at least) humanists think...

 

http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/

[Paladin]

It appears that most of us were not just Sunday morning Christians, as it was everything we ate, slept and breathed, and for the most part we tried to live up the best we could to the christian teachings. So to think that it would not be a process to overcome fears and emotions, is not being fair to ourselves.

 

So while we found a "purpose" while christians, it is not crazy to think we might be lost for awhile as we re-work our beliefs and lives. So don't beat yourself up while going through this process.

 

It appears to me that many on this site are good people, not because of their past faith, but because that is who you are when you were born. So just go on being who you were, just minus the church stuff.

 

I find it refreshing to be kind because I want to be kind, not because " the bible tells me so'. I can be nice, helpful and generous to EVERYBODY not just to those that I think are christian or to those I would want to convert. I don't have to judge everything now, for example, they are christian, they are not. they are holy, they are not. that's a sin, that is not etc.

 

When it comes to purpose, why can't it be just to make this day better for myself and those around me? How about saying a kind word to someone who is sad, and bringing a smile to their day? Why not do that as you search for a long term purpose?

 

For myself I have found Buddhism a great way to continue what I thought christianity was supposed to be about, as for me it is about being kind, and compassionate toward all living beings. But I did not find my way overnight, hell no!!!..It took me over 20 years to find peace with my decision to finally put my christian past behind me for good. So anyway, be kind to yourself as you work through all the crap you have been brainwashed with. it's not easy, but well worth it!!!

 

Take care

Paladin!

[Llwellyn]

I've heard this is a good book for someone planning on going to hell: "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. Frankl found joy and growth in a concentration camp, just as we can in Yahweh's hell. If we think of our experience as a Purgatory, life becomes better.