Religion Is Made Up

[Open_Minded]

Hello Folks:

 

Some of you know me - some don't. I'm just posting this email I received from my minister - a more traditionally minded ELCA Lutheran than I am - but still open minded. He received it from another Christian minister we both know and forwarded it onto me.

 

I'm just posting it here - because so often the presumption is that most (if not all) Christians will not allow themselves to accept the mythology in religion for what it is. This piece was written by a Rabbi. As it was forwarded to me I can see that it made the rounds in our regional interfaith leadership of ministers, rabbis, lay leaders, etc...

 

Just thought some of you might be interested.

 

In Peace

O_M

 

 

Religion Is Made Up

By Rabbi Rami Shapiro

 

Religion is made up; all religion, not just other people's religions.

 

Religion is made up. God didn't choose the Jews, have a baby, or ask Mohammed to recite.

 

Religion is made up, but Reality is not. Yet religion trumps Reality in the hearts and minds of millions, maybe billions of people.

 

Religion is made up, but Truth is not. Yet religion blasphemes Truth with self-serving tales of power and exploitation.

 

Religion is made up. Once you know this it is hard to be religious. You just can't justify all the rules and ruckus. I know because I keep trying. I keep telling myself religion matters. But it doesn't.

 

You know what matters? Love matters. Compassion matters. Justice matters. Peace matters. Humility matters. Nature matters. Truth matters. Reality matters. You matter.

 

So what do I do when I know religion is made up? First I remember that all philosophy and literature is made up as well. Second I remember that just because Plato invented the dialogues of Socrates, and Shakespeare invented Hamlet and Lear doesn't mean that Socrates, Hamlet, and Lear don't speak Truth. Fiction may preclude fact, but in no way does it obscure Truth.

 

Religion is made up. At its best its stories have the potential to capture our imagination and feed our souls by revealing the best to which we humans can aspire. At its worst it can strip us of our humanity and invite us to make real the darkest fantasies we can conjure. Torah, Gospels, Qur'an, and Gita contain insights of such power, grandeur and wisdom that we say them come from God. They also contain the obscenely violent, misogynist, and xenophobic rants of fearful frightened men climbing to power over the dead bodies of their enemies.

 

We can't free religion of either genius or madness, but we can free ourselves from mistaking them both for the Word of God. How? By realizing that religion is made up. No one goes to war over the meaning of Hamlet. No one kills another to decide whom Shakespeare loved best.

 

If we admit that religion is made up we can enjoy it without being abused by it. If we admit that religion is made up we can honor myth without having to flatten it into fact. If we admit that religion is made up we can shake off the fear and violence it sanctions and address its one timeless message: do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly.

 

http://www.rabbirami.com/about.html

http://web.mac.com/rabbirami/iWeb/Rabbi%20Rami/Home.html

[sojourner]

Hi OpenMinded

 

Thanks for this.

 

I find much much truth in this, at least for me.

 

sojourner

[Deva]

If we admit that religion is made up we can enjoy it without being abused by it. If we admit that religion is made up we can honor myth without having to flatten it into fact. If we admit that religion is made up we can shake off the fear and violence it sanctions and address its one timeless message: do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly.

 

Speaking for myself of course, I feel no need to "honor the myth." If the myth only involved what is stated in the last sentence, that's fine, but we all know it does not.

[Evolution_beyond]

That was a very true thing

 

But personally I find that christianity has been so badly tarnished by the millions of people that insist it is literally true (even if only a small part of it) - that it is easier to find true spiritual sustinence in Norse, Greek or Egyptian myth - or in Indian religions such as hinduism and buddhism - or in the great works of film or literature.

 

But nevertheless it is true. If those biblical metaphors were dusted off and accepted as fictions, but potentially inspiring fictions - then maybe christianity could continue to serve some purpose. Some do that - but the vast majority of christians, even the liberal ones, insist on literal interpretations of certain key bible stories. This tarnishes the religion (islam suffers from the same problem btw) and makes it false.

 

Just my own highly subjective point of view.

[GraphicsGuy]

I find as much truth in the novels I read. The only myths I need.

[florduh]

Thanks for sharing that. It shows that not every religious person is insane.

 

That said, once we realize that all religion is just mythology, how can we embrace a particular religion and pretend it means something? It makes more sense, if you are so inclined, to take inspiring and meaningful thoughts from various sources and apply them to your life. Certain thought patterns and actions are beneficial to a happy life. Belief in the supernatural is not required for that, so, why do we need religion at all?

 

- Chris

[R. S. Martin]

If we admit that religion is made up we can shake off the fear and violence it sanctions and address its one timeless message: do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly.

 

http://www.rabbirami.com/about.html

http://web.mac.com/rabbirami/iWeb/Rabbi%20Rami/Home.html

[/indent]

 

Since this is done at least as easily without religion as with religion, why hold onto religion?

 

It's as though the existence of religion needs to be justified and I can see that coming from those who depend on it for their bread and butter...

 

But for the rest of us...

[white_raven23]

That was a good post O_M.

 

Personally, the bible actually increased in value for me when I chose to accept it as a collection of mythological tales. Mythology speaks of morality by way of metaphor and implication just fine. Whereas taking the bible as literal truth turns that sense into a forced thing of screamed cruelty. To take the bible literally is to infantalize and brutalize a creator that may be more sentient than we ever dreamed, or less sentient than a bowl of soup...either way, the literal interpretation is less than complimentary. Not to mention completely impossible and too contradictory for anyone to live up to.

[Open_Minded]

Hello Everyone:

 

I thought of everyone here, at Ex-C when I received that email and figured it would be of interest to this board. I always enjoy our discussions on this board and am happy to see some of you appreciate what is written. A few have asked - "why religion then"?

 

I can't speak for everyone - and certainly GraphicsGuy's observation

I find as much truth in the novels I read. The only myths I need.

is valid.

 

But, for myself - I find much value in religion (as I practice it). I find value in the friendships and discussions I have at my church. I find much value in the Bible and Christianity itself. I grew up with Christianity and the Bible - it is a language to me. A language every bit as valid as English itself.

 

Maybe because I grew up in a home where I was expected to think about the way the Bible was written and I was taught about its mythology from a very early age - I don't feel conflict in these areas. And since I do believe in God - the language of Christianity gives me a way to express and live out my belief in God. I don't know if that makes any sense - I don't expect others to embrace the same language, but it "fits" me. And I can accept that it doesn't "fit" others.

 

At any rate - it is wonderful to live at a time in history when people who are involved in religion (like the rabbi who wrote this) can be open and honest about the mythology in religion. I feel a certain sense of freedom (as a Christian) that I may not have found a short 50 years ago.

[GraphicsGuy]

OM, I can certainly appreciate your position. It's one that my own parents would share with you. It's a position I like to call "people before doctrine."

 

For myself it doesn't work. Too entrenched in fundyism and emotional/mental disorders for too many years to bother with religion or anything that looks like religion. But you know that.

 

Just saying I can appreciate what you say and understand where you're coming from. If it works for you and brings you peace and makes you peaceful with others...hell, why not?

[Thurisaz]

You know what matters? Love matters. Compassion matters. Justice matters. Peace matters. Humility matters. Nature matters. Truth matters. Reality matters. You matter.

 

So true, so absolutely true!

 

As for "Why should one need religion then?"... one doesn't indeed. It's something you can choose to have or not have. If you choose to have it, fine. If not, also fine. Doesn't matter in the end except to you personally. What matters is... see above

[Kratos]

I know I will be in the minority, but whereas I agree that most of religion is made-up, I do not believe that God is.

 

I believe that God is real and everyone knows in a part of their heart that this is so.

 

Religion begins as man's way to explain and describe this inner knowing, but becomes a means to control others for the benefit of those at the top of the pyramid in their system.

 

Jesus came agains the religious of His time and called them a brood of vipers and whited sepulchres full of dead mne's bones.

 

But, the way of man continues and another religion was built around Him.

 

It is not easy to be rid of religion when you know in your heart that God is there. But, I cannot deny that knowing so it is what I am left with.

 

John

[GraphicsGuy]

I believe that God is real and everyone knows in a part of their heart that this is so.

 

No, no one really knows this. It's a belief. Nothing more.

 

There is no part of me that knows a God or any kind of higher being exists. A small part of me hopes there just maybe, might be, possibly something out there.

 

But 100% of me fully 100% believes that Bible God does not exist.

[Ouroboros]

I believe that God is real and everyone knows in a part of their heart that this is so.

Are you certain about that? Or in other words, are you more certain about what I believe or think or feel than I am myself? Isn't that rather brazen? Would you accept my opinion that I'm quite certain that deep down you actually do not believe in God, but you do everything to fool yourself to keep your mind in a delusional state? Is it any less or more presumptuous of me to assume such a think about you, if you assume and "believe" such a thing about other people?

 

You basically saying that you know other people better than they know themselves. You know for certain what they are certain or not certain about, more than they know themselves. That is very weird. Can you really claim that you know if I know or not know something?

 

So I guess, what you're really saying is that the word "believe" in your sentence really does not mean an absolute certainty on your side at all, but rather you use the word "believed" more as an approximation or weak opinion; a "maybe it is so" if you will.

 

And that leads back to your first statement:

I know I will be in the minority, but whereas I agree that most of religion is made-up, I do not believe that God is.

Which would then support my assumption that you are not certain at all about God's existence, since your use of the word "believe" is equivalent with a weak assumption.

 

But on the other hand, if you are certain that God exist (believe as absolute statement), but you "only" believe (as a weak assumption) that other people do also believe in God, then you are inconsistent in how you use the word "believe."

 

Just a considering you should have in the future. Make a less vague statement about what you believe in weak term vs what you are certain about. Just an FYI.

[Grandpa Harley]

It must be the season for it... This from the Bishop Spong...

 

Diana from North Carolina writes:

 

Since the Bible contains so much misinterpreted information, what kind of reference should a praying, spiritual person use? Are there certain translations that are less derogatory than others? Also, in looking at a deeper and clearer understanding of the Bible, are there metaphysical understandings that would enhance one's spiritual journey and that would be useful? If so, what are they?

 

Dear Diana,

 

Part of the problem that underlies your letter is that in your mind and in the minds of countless millions of others like you, a distorted Bible and a distorted understanding of the Bible has shaped your life for far too long. To undo that damage would almost take a lifetime. Some translations of the Bible are certainly more accurate than others, but any honest translation of the Bible will still confront the reader in many passages with an understanding of God who acts in an immoral way. That is simply part of the tribal story the Bible tells. Tribal gods have chosen people, which of course means that those not of that tribe are God's unchosen. Tribal gods hate the enemies of the chosen people. So the God of the Bible conducts a reign of terror against the Egyptians with plagues, against the Ammonites by stopping the sun in the sky to allow Joshua more daylight in which to slaughter them and even orders King Saul to commit genocide against the Amalekites. No version of the Bible can remove the horrors of some of its stories. That, however, is not the way to read this book. It is not the word of God in any literal sense.

 

The Bible is a developing narrative, portraying the developing God-consciousness in human life. It moves beyond the tribal deity of some of its earlier parts to a universalism that defines God as both Love and Justice, and even calls us to love our enemies. The essential truths of the Bible, useful on all of our spiritual journeys, is that in creation God proclaims that all life is holy, in the Jesus story, the Bible asserts that all life is loved and that through the Holy Spirit, who is said to be "the Lord and giver of life," the Bible issues a call to each of us to be all that we can be.

 

I work on these primary premises of the Christian story, and that is why I still treasure, read, study and try to live into what I believe is the essential truth of the Bible. I do this by rejecting everything that is present in either the Christian Church or the Christian Scriptures that is used to diminish the humanity of any child of God, based on any external characteristic of tribe, gender, sexual orientation or religious tradition. I invite you to walk with me into this new perspective.

 

- John Shelby Spong

 

TBH, ol' Mad Jack has been saying what the good Rabbi said in the OP for YEARS...

[ogilvy]

That was a very true thing

But nevertheless it is true. If those biblical metaphors were dusted off and accepted as fictions, but potentially inspiring fictions - then maybe christianity could continue to serve some purpose. Some do that - but the vast majority of christians, even the liberal ones, insist on literal interpretations of certain key bible stories.

Just my own highly subjective point of view.

but i think Jesus himself spoke of the 'myths' as if they were real events, eg. jonah inside the belly of the whale, sodom and gomorrah, the flood, and the wilderness events like the snake on the pole. and Jesus said he had received all his teachings from the Father, so i think christians are meant to treat them as real, not myths. in fact, i think it was Peter who said something like 'we have not come to you with cunningly devised fables'.

[Open_Minded]

I know I will be in the minority, but whereas I agree that most of religion is made-up, I do not believe that God is.

 

I believe that God is real and everyone knows in a part of their heart that this is so.

Hello Kratos:

 

Your words speak for themselves. In both statements above you said, "believe". There is a difference between belief and fact.

 

Fact is 2+2=4, it is verifiable by all observing parties. Any mother, in any culture, in any area of the world can take 2 sticks and lay them down on the left, then take 2 more sticks and lay them down on the right and then count out all sticks equaling 4 sticks with her young child, thus teaching the child that 2+2=4.

 

This is not so with belief. One mother in one culture in one village may sit her child on her lap and teach her child that there is a God while another mother in another culture, in another village may teach her child a completely different belief. Heck, right here in America, children learn different beliefs about God in the same home, neighborhoods and communities. In my village, it is entirely possible that the people living down the street from me could be Wiccan, Buddhist (which may, or may not include atheism and agnostics) &/or Christian. I say, "&/or Christian" because I know people who go to church every Sunday and consider themselves Christian, but who also participate in Wiccan rituals when our local Wiccan community has celebrations. I also know Christians who participate in activities at the local Buddhist temple.

 

Kratos, "belief" is simply not as cut-and-dried as fact. It isn't. One cannot prove belief, one can prove fact. So, to say "everyone knows in a part of their hart that this is so." misses the mark. It is treating belief as "knowable" fact - and that is simply not possible.

[Open_Minded]

The Bible is a developing narrative, portraying the developing God-consciousness in human life. It moves beyond the tribal deity of some of its earlier parts to a universalism that defines God as both Love and Justice, and even calls us to love our enemies. The essential truths of the Bible, useful on all of our spiritual journeys, is that in creation God proclaims that all life is holy, in the Jesus story, the Bible asserts that all life is loved and that through the Holy Spirit, who is said to be "the Lord and giver of life," the Bible issues a call to each of us to be all that we can be.

 

I work on these primary premises of the Christian story, and that is why I still treasure, read, study and try to live into what I believe is the essential truth of the Bible. I do this by rejecting everything that is present in either the Christian Church or the Christian Scriptures that is used to diminish the humanity of any child of God, based on any external characteristic of tribe, gender, sexual orientation or religious tradition. I invite you to walk with me into this new perspective.

 

- John Shelby Spong

 

I like John Shelby Spong - I've read him for years. And - for years - (long before John Shelby Spong) I've considered the Bible one story of humanity's search for the Sacred. Like Spong, I see a "developing narrative" in the Bible. And - I believe that there is as much to learn from the violent tribal God narratives as there is to learn from the God of Love narratives. If we do not really soak in the dangers of a tribal understanding of God we will continue to kill each other over these issues. Those violent tribal narratives are there to remind us - to teach us from the history of human behavior. We can learn from those narratives, or we can repeat the mistakes of those narratives. The choice is ours.

[sojourner]

The Bible is a developing narrative, portraying the developing God-consciousness in human life. It moves beyond the tribal deity of some of its earlier parts to a universalism that defines God as both Love and Justice, and even calls us to love our enemies. The essential truths of the Bible, useful on all of our spiritual journeys, is that in creation God proclaims that all life is holy, in the Jesus story, the Bible asserts that all life is loved and that through the Holy Spirit, who is said to be "the Lord and giver of life," the Bible issues a call to each of us to be all that we can be.

 

I work on these primary premises of the Christian story, and that is why I still treasure, read, study and try to live into what I believe is the essential truth of the Bible. I do this by rejecting everything that is present in either the Christian Church or the Christian Scriptures that is used to diminish the humanity of any child of God, based on any external characteristic of tribe, gender, sexual orientation or religious tradition. I invite you to walk with me into this new perspective.

 

- John Shelby Spong

 

Awesome quote, I really love this man and applaud his bravery for speaking out against all the elitism in the church!

 

sojourner

[Grandpa Harley]

It's why he is universally reviled...

[sojourner]

I like John Shelby Spong - I've read him for years. And - for years - (long before John Shelby Spong) I've considered the Bible one story of humanity's search for the Sacred. Like Spong, I see a "developing narrative" in the Bible. And - I believe that there is as much to learn from the violent tribal God narratives as there is to learn from the God of Love narratives. If we do not really soak in the dangers of a tribal understanding of God we will continue to kill each other over these issues. Those violent tribal narratives are there to remind us - to teach us from the history of human behavior. We can learn from those narratives, or we can repeat the mistakes of those narratives. The choice is ours.

 

Awesome statement and is what Ive come to see and I feel more free than I ever have in my life! Its as if Ive become an honest human being and am no longer playing cover up with the bible. It is what it is. And there just are no words for finally seeing this and accepting it as it is instead of trying to make it into a contortionist.

 

sojourner

[hereticzero]

If religious leaders admit religion is a myth, which is polite not to call it an outright lie, then to continue to teach the religion as truth and given to us by god, is a disservice to humanity. How can anyone show honor and respect to the 'authority' of something that is make-believe? I just don't get some peopel's attitudes towards having to have something to worship or belong to some religious group even if they don't believe what is being taught.

[Grandpa Harley]

I like John Shelby Spong - I've read him for years. And - for years - (long before John Shelby Spong) I've considered the Bible one story of humanity's search for the Sacred. Like Spong, I see a "developing narrative" in the Bible. And - I believe that there is as much to learn from the violent tribal God narratives as there is to learn from the God of Love narratives. If we do not really soak in the dangers of a tribal understanding of God we will continue to kill each other over these issues. Those violent tribal narratives are there to remind us - to teach us from the history of human behavior. We can learn from those narratives, or we can repeat the mistakes of those narratives. The choice is ours.

 

Awesome statement and is what Ive come to see and I feel more free than I ever have in my life! Its as if Ive become an honest human being and am no longer playing cover up with the bible. It is what it is. And there just are no words for finally seeing this and accepting it as it is instead of trying to make it into a contortionist.

 

sojourner

 

 

The question then is, 'What to do with all the crap after the end of the Gospel of John?' in fact Luke and John are pretty weak on a sophisitcated view of a god head; Luke is just a poor narrative and John takes back in 3:18 what he gives in 3:16... Thomas seems a better fit with Matt and Mark... hell Judas matches more of Matt and Mark than John does

 

So, the Acts, the Pauline letters and Revelations are problematic and Luke and John simple 'difficult'. So how to get benefit from those?

[Open_Minded]

If religious leaders admit religion is a myth, which is polite not to call it an outright lie, then to continue to teach the religion as truth and given to us by god, is a disservice to humanity. How can anyone show honor and respect to the 'authority' of something that is make-believe? I just don't get some peopel's attitudes towards having to have something to worship or belong to some religious group even if they don't believe what is being taught.

HereticZero - not all religious leaders teach the Bible as scientific and factual truth. Some teach the mythology in the Bible and teach that truth can be found within the mythology.

 

It is truth to teach that the violent tribal stories of God should be learned from, that as humans we can and do kill each other over such understandings of God and that we must search for understandings of God that transcend tribalism.

 

It is truth to teach that

You know what matters? Love matters. Compassion matters. Justice matters. Peace matters. Humility matters. Nature matters. Truth matters. Reality matters. You matter.

 

It is truth to teach that loving one's neighbor as oneself is good and honorable and the way to live.

[sojourner]

OpenMinded

 

If some brave soul had taught the bible like you said above, honestly teaching about the tribalism in the bible without holding it up as good that could have saved me years of heartache. For years Ive heard these things glossed over and I feel Ive lived some kind of dishonest religious view with having to have some dark closet where I could stick all the crap or contort it out of its real shape with some masks lol. Now that I see it as it is, there is much more power in those stories of what we are leaving behind. How our consiousness is rising to new heights, beyond the tribalism, beyond the elitism and hate.

 

that part you requoted was the best part of the whole article to me

 

You know what matters? Love matters. Compassion matters. Justice matters. Peace matters. Humility matters. Nature matters. Truth matters. Reality matters. You matter.

 

awesome and so true

 

sojourner