Religion Is Made Up

[hereticzero]

I shared my "testimony" before how I met Jesus when He came into my room and spoke to me.

 

You didn't happen to catch all this on your cell phone camera or webcam, did you? That would be waaaay cool to see.

I know if Jesus came to speak to me I'd ask him for a picture, this was a kodak moment.

[Open_Minded]

OM I'm curious, what do you make of Kratos's beliefs?

Hey Doc

 

I've been watching the discussion And trying very hard not to jump all over the boy. I've been away from the board awhile and I can tell he has a history here. So, there's a part of me that's wondering what kind of snake pit I'll find myself in - if I go after his arrogate attitude.

 

For instance:

 

I shared my "testimony" before how I met Jesus when He came into my room and spoke to me. I had tried to find God through religion prior to this. In fact, I was surprised when I was speaking to a college counselor before graduation and was told that I could declare a double minor if I wanted to. I knew I would get my BS in chemistry and minor in mathematics, but he said that when he added up the electives I had chosen in my 4 years, I had earned a minor in comparative religion. This included classes in Zen Bhuddism, B'ahai, Hinduism, philosophy concerning God, as well as, the Bible as a historic and poetic book.

 

I know that this is only my experience and how I define it, but what else do any of us have? There was a part of me that was always searching for God and did not find Him in religion. When He did reveal Himself to me, I searched for a way to explain what had happened to me and the Bible explained it best.

I'm not sure of his history on the board - or his level of education. But, he says he had classes in Zen, B'ahai, Hinduism and philosophy. Then he writes what I've highlighted in red....

 

Now here's the thing - he's studied these other religions and philosophies - at one time he must have had an open mind (no pun intended). Then he has a personal experience - so many of here can relate to that - I accept that experience as valid. But, then he writes "I searched for a way to explain what had happened to me and the Bible explained it best".

 

Ok - I accept that as valid enough as well - the Bible "fits" for me as well. As I said earlier in the thread the language of Christianity is real - just as real as the english language.

 

But, here's where he looses me (and I'm not familiar with his history here so I'm only guessing) but he seems like a raving fundy. If he's studied (really studied - with an open mind - those other traditions) why does he deny the possibility that another individual can have very real personal, intense, intimate, "spiritual" experiences. Why does he deny that this individual can then search for a way to explain those experiences and find their answers in other religions, or philosophies, or the arts, or nature? That's where he looses me...

 

I don't buy that he studied those other religions with an open-mind (again no pun intended). If he had his response towards other religions or philosophies would be much different. He would look at these thiings as languages of symbols and rituals and traditions and mythologies that take us down infinitely internal and transcendent paths.

 

He would understand the OP - and he doesn't seem to have a clue.

[Grandpa Harley]

Generally speaking, I've heard the 'studied other religions' litany before, and as soon as you scratch the surface you find it's generally be taught by some Christian using a Christian book view of the religo-philosophy in question. I've certainly not seen anything that indicates any depth of knowledge of ANY religion, other than mainstream Christology, with a solid dose of pseudo-Pauline eisegesis based on a possible Jung-space encounter with a Christ archetype (and there are a lot of them - Christ-redeemer, Passion-Christ, Risen-Christ, Temple-Christ with optional knotted rope for smacking money lenders, Harley-Jesus, Buddy-Jesus... the list goes on... generally variants of the 'Robert Powell' Christ. All goes to show we create the God we need Sometime I'll have to share my run in with the son of man archetype)

 

I've said this many times before, if the run in was with a 6 foot rabbit called Harvey, or a guy in a rabbit suit called 'Frank', then there'd be anti-psychotics on the menu and a diaper change three times a day... Just because someone says they've met Jesus we're not allowed to laugh...

[Deva]

I don't buy that he studied those other religions with an open-mind (again no pun intended). If he had his response towards other religions or philosophies would be much different. He would look at these thiings as languages of symbols and rituals and traditions and mythologies that take us down infinitely internal and transcendent paths.

 

He would understand the OP - and he doesn't seem to have a clue.

 

Wow Open_Minded. Not addressed to me but -- great post. I agree with your assessment 100%. Hey, at one time I didn't think we would agree on anything!

 

Kratos obviously irritates me with his agreement with Paul's view of marriage. You may have missed those posts. He told me it didn't concern me, but as a woman it does not matter if I am married or single. The oppression of other people always bothers me, and the use of the Bible to justify it. Now he would rather ignore me, that's OK, but I am not going to let him forget how opposed I am to it.

 

I think this is a very interesting thread.

[The-Captain]

Hey Doc

 

I've been watching the discussion And trying very hard not to jump all over the boy. I've been away from the board awhile and I can tell he has a history here. So, there's a part of me that's wondering what kind of snake pit I'll find myself in - if I go after his arrogate attitude.

 

Thanks for replying OM I wasnt on the boards when you were, but Im glad to see you back.

 

I know that this is only my experience and how I define it, but what else do any of us have? There was a part of me that was always searching for God and did not find Him in religion. When He did reveal Himself to me, I searched for a way to explain what had happened to me and the Bible explained it best.

 

Yeah this part stood out to me too. I'll save my breath and simply say I agree with your assessment.

 

 

Kratos I'm repeating myself but I really dont get how you maintain this double standard of belief. On the one hand you state that god isnt in religion but revealed by spirit. Yet you continue to rely on religous doctrines and judge what to believe of god by your own intuition. What makes you think that this comes from some supernatrual external part of you? Arent you experiencing all of this through natrual means, be it mental physical or visual?

 

You pick parts of the bible (likely with part of your brain) to take literally and dismiss others, what is your basis for this if not personal bias? Why do you maintain that the bible is correct, yet only partially, but dismiss other religions as a whole or relegate them to being the efforts of people to find your version of god. Am I to understand that you base all of this on an episode you had where in Jesus appeared to you?

 

Look at what you are saying Kratos...its crazy. And no not in a "worldly minds cant understand" kind of a crazy or "everyones against me so I must be right" kind of crazy, just crazy. GH isnt far off in calling you a Paul imitator, thats what you are doing spinning your own take on life the universe and everything, except with a following of one.

[sojourner]

This is not meant to be some plug for universalism but-

 

this is for Kratos about universalism as he says he studied eastern religions. I find this belief just as beautifully expressed in buddhism. I actually came to see universalism when studying eastern religion but didnt grasp the depth of it till later after I went and found it in the bible as well and began to see Jesus spoken of as the 'savior of the world' or a bodhisattvas.

 

Bodhisattvas in Mahayana Buddhism

In Buddhism, a bodhisattva is, at least in a sense, one who aspires to become Buddha for the benefit of all sentient beings. In Mahayana Buddhism this world is compared with a burning home where all sentient beings are resided without the knowledge of house being burnt. A Bodhisattva is the one who has determination to free sentient beings from samsarawith the cycle of death, rebirth and suffering. This type of mind is known as bodhicitta Sanskrit for mind of awakening. Bodhisattvas take in order to progress on the spiritual path towards buddhahood. According to some East Asian Mahayana sources a bodhisattva can choose either of three paths to help sentient beings in the process of achieving buddhahood. They are:

1. King-like Bodhisattva - one who aspires to become buddha as soon as possible and then help sentient beings in full fledge;

2. Boatman-like Bodhisattva - one who aspires to achieve buddhahood along with other sentient beings and

3. Shepherd-like Bodhisattva - one who aspires to delay buddhahood until all other sentient beings achieve buddhahood.

 

A bodhisattva wishes to help all beings attain nirvana. He must therefore refuse to enter nirvana himself, as he cannot apparently render any services to the living beings of the worlds after his own nirvana.

 

He thus finds himself in the rather illogical position of pointing the way to nirvana for other beings, while he himself stays in this world of suffering in order to do good to all creatures. This is his great sacrifice for others. He has taken the great Vow: "I shall not enter into final nirvana before all beings have been liberated." He does not realize the highest liberation for himself, as he cannot abandon other beings to their fate. He has said: "I must lead all beings to liberation. I will stay here till the end, even for the sake of one living soul."

 

The word 'bodhisattva' itself is prone to a rich etymological analysis. It is composed of two words 'bodhi' and 'sattva' both of which connote deeply spiritually meanings. Bodhi means "awakening" or "enlightenment," and sattva means "sentient being." Sattva also has etymological roots that mean "intention," meaning the intention to enlighten other beings. Thus the composite word bodhisattva signifies the very essence of the divine beings it refers to.

 

For me this beautiful rendering of the 'bodhisattva' is just as beautiful as the bible rendering of the 'savior of the world'. It describes the same thing as an enlightened one becoming the savior and taking others from no awareness to awareness. Just as in christianity the mind of christ is risen within, we see the same thing as one is awakened spiritually in the writing above.

 

I have not done enough study of other religions to find the similarities in them but Im sure they are there in many of them.

 

Personally, I love discovering things like this

 

sojourner

[Kratos]

Soj and the rest,

 

Paul defines being spiritually minded as minding or taking heed to the things of the spirit. Whereas only being carnally minded means to only mind the things of the flesh or the physical world. I believe that this is true as I have seen it. Many go through life believing that only what we can sense with our 5 senses is real. Others know that there is something more and desire to attain to all they can be in this other realm knowing intuitively that that which is unseen is the real and the eternal and that which is seen is temporal and passing away.

 

I always have been spiritual minded. For example, when I was involved in martial arts for self defense and physical fitness, I became a practicing Zen Bhuddist. Martial arts just became another zen training method like calligraphy or flower arranging or tea ceremony etc. I intuitively knew that there was something more to me and to everyone than meets the eye and needed to understand it and experience it.

 

The Bible admonishes us to "take heed to your spirit". This is really all I am saying. I believe that the Bhuddist monk takes heed to his spirit as does the Christian who actually prays and worships in the spirit instead of just attending church and going through the motions. I spent as many hours meditating then (either sitting or walking or while doing kata) as I do praying now. I am no different. I am the same man. I just want to know God and the god part of me and to see others do the same if that is their wish.

 

To those who are carnally minded and only believe what they can see, I will remain crazy and a laughing stock. But those like Soj and AM that know there is more to us than just bodies and minds know better.

 

I have nothing against intellectual pursuits or education, but I cannot deny the fact that those who do not have these things do tend to be more spiritually minded as they are spiritually aware of that part of their make-up. Like I stated earlier, primitive people are so often more spiritually aware. My goal is to be as spiritually aware as I can be without being primitive intellectually or physically unfit. I want all three parts of my trinity to excel. I believe it is possible. I will not be bullied by either the spiritual person who says I must not be intellectual like I meet in church or the intellectual that say I must not be spiritual if I am going to be intellectual like I meet so often here. Our spirit and mind and body are all gifts from God and meant to be embraced and explored IMHO.

 

John

[Antlerman]

To those who are carnally minded and only believe what they can see, I will remain crazy and a laughing stock. But those like Soj and AM that know there is more to us than just bodies and minds know better.

What I was hoping to convey in a response today, and may still later, is that in principle there is a truth to this but in a very qualified way. I prefer to avoid anything that suggests an actual plane of existence where "spirit beings" float about. I wince at the suggestion of a Big B Being that exists externally to us. To me what if anything about this that transcends us, is that it is a shared perception of existence and our response to it that is greater than just one individual, even though the individual participates in the greater whole. There is something that exists beyond us, but it is a product of the system, and we are part of that system and it part of us. The true struggle is the sense of separation of ourselves from it, which can occur due to many factors. All the rest are simply disciplines and languages to express and inspire us to be reconciled with our nature in that system. Nothing mystical or mysterious. Carnally minded versus spiritual minded are simply languages to talk about that. As is the whole Messiah symbol. It's a human thing. Man created Christ to express that angst and desire.

 

I have nothing against intellectual pursuits or education, but I cannot deny the fact that those who do not have these things do tend to be more spiritually minded as they are spiritually aware of that part of their make-up. Like I stated earlier, primitive people are so often more spiritually aware. My goal is to be as spiritually aware as I can be without being primitive intellectually or physically unfit. I want all three parts of my trinity to excel. I believe it is possible. I will not be bullied by either the spiritual person who says I must not be intellectual like I meet in church or the intellectual that say I must not be spiritual if I am going to be intellectual like I meet so often here. Our spirit and mind and body are all gifts from God and meant to be embraced and explored IMHO.

 

John

There's a whole complex of things in this. You should not mistake those who have their heads in the clouds, without having their feet on the ground as being spiritually minded. They're not. I've seen more than my share of those who see God everywhere, yet live life so disconnected from it for all intents and purposes their "faith" is more a narcotic drug to keep them doped up and outside of the real world where they need to live. This is not being spiritual. It's escapism, and denies life in it's fullness. At the same time, you have those who can build walls of defense up through reason and rationality to the point that they too are disconnected from seeing the beauty of life. It too can be a form of escape.

 

But what I see in the struggle of being "carnally minded" versus "spiritually minded", is really more this: it's living your life with your eyes not always focused inward into fear, despair, pessimism, or the mundane cares of daily life, but exposing one's self to the embrace of the Beautiful in life. To hold hope, belief in positive ideals that serve others and Life. Everything in the language of Faith, and salvation is to this end. It's all a principle of living, that acknowledges something innate to the experience of living; the embrace of Beauty; of life. We live in the world, we also reach for the sun, so to speak. as part of that impulse of life. As others have said, "The best poem is one where your head is in the clouds, and your feet firmly on the ground". Spirituality is expressing that poem. It's living that poem; it's being that poem. That's what life is. It's all about finding that natural sense in ourselves.

 

Step back from the strict interpretation of the signs, and hear what they all express.

[Kratos]

AM,

 

I agree with a lot of what you wrote (except the whole "no God" thing, of course). You touch on another area where I believe that Christianity has evolved in a wrong direction. Many Christians see salvation as just going to Heaven when we die. This is not only not scriptural, but it puts off life for the future and can make some become so heavenly minded that they are of no earthly good.

 

I am sure that you know that the Greek word that was translated as saved or salvation is either sozo or soteria. I believe that the best translation of this word in this context is "to be made whole". My understanding of the truth hidden behind the story of the fall relates to this understanding of what it means to become saved and it has nothing to do with"original sin".

 

I have expressed before that I see man as created triune. We are a spirit by which we know God and the spirit realm. We have a soul by which we interrelate with one another in the areas of mind, will, and emotions. Finally, both our spirit and soul live in a physical body by which we expreience and interact with the physical world through our five senses.

 

Man chose to exclusively know good and evil through the means of his soul and our spirit became darkened in the process. We became overdeveloped in this one realm of our being and became super-souled. In order to do this, we turned our backs to the spirit world and to our knowledge of God.

 

In the religious language that I choose (as you would say), I believe that Jesus came to save the world by reintroducing us to the spirit and giving us the choice to be saved by coming back into balance in our being. We cannot become in balance by now becoming so spiritual that we deny our intellect or soulical self. This would create the same out of balance problem, but just in another way. We deny ourselves or our physical and soulical selves so our spirit can arise and take its rightful place in our trinity.

 

I see all religous activity as different manifestations of man's attempt to once again know ourselves as we are. This inner knowledge of "something more" that we are meant to be is why Christians pray and worship, why Bhuddists meditate, why Native Americans eat peyote and sit in sweat lodges. In fact, it is why some become ghost busters and psychic freinds. These are all different ways to explore the part of us that has remained dorment for so long.

 

At least, this is how I see it at this point on my road to become a balanced son of God.

 

John

[Grandpa Harley]

And this tallies with your Romans and Timothy prejudices quite how? Your pseudo-inclusivism really just rings hollow with your application of Pauline thought about Women and Homosexuals... hence you get called a hypocrite when you try and gloss your poison with something as superficially reasonable as the above... Also, you're using a dead language to support your ideas when you earlier dismissed the use of dead languages to support an idea. Why is that?

 

AND THE WORD IS BUDDHIST! NOT BHUDDIST!!! OR IS GOOD SPELLING TOO DAMNED INTELLECTUAL AND NOT SPIRITUAL ENOUGH?

[Grandpa Harley]

and the 'carnally minded'/'spiritually minded' thing is bullshit. Unless you can do the spiritually minded thing without the few pounds of gelid meat product we ALL think with it's all 'carnal' (that is MEAT) mind... If there is an extrinsic 'spirit' to man, it is devoid of an identity. I've spent too long in places where I've seen, up close and personal, the identity systematically stripped from human beings as their brain curdles or fries...

[The-Captain]

and the 'carnally minded'/'spiritually minded' thing is bullshit. Unless you can do the spiritually minded thing without the few pounds of gelid meat product we ALL think with it's all 'carnal' (that is MEAT) mind... If there is an extrinsic 'spirit' to man, it is devoid of an identity. I've spent too long in places where I've seen, up close and personal, the identity systematically stripped from human beings as their brain curdles or fries...

 

I've been trying to get that across for about the last 3 posts, I dont think he is willing to make the connection. Kratos respond to this for once!

[Grandpa Harley]

This is not meant to be some plug for universalism but-

 

this is for Kratos about universalism as he says he studied eastern religions. I find this belief just as beautifully expressed in buddhism. I actually came to see universalism when studying eastern religion but didnt grasp the depth of it till later after I went and found it in the bible as well and began to see Jesus spoken of as the 'savior of the world' or a bodhisattvas.

 

Bodhisattvas in Mahayana Buddhism

In Buddhism, a bodhisattva is, at least in a sense, one who aspires to become Buddha for the benefit of all sentient beings. In Mahayana Buddhism this world is compared with a burning home where all sentient beings are resided without the knowledge of house being burnt. A Bodhisattva is the one who has determination to free sentient beings from samsarawith the cycle of death, rebirth and suffering. This type of mind is known as bodhicitta Sanskrit for mind of awakening. Bodhisattvas take in order to progress on the spiritual path towards buddhahood. According to some East Asian Mahayana sources a bodhisattva can choose either of three paths to help sentient beings in the process of achieving buddhahood. They are:

1. King-like Bodhisattva - one who aspires to become buddha as soon as possible and then help sentient beings in full fledge;

2. Boatman-like Bodhisattva - one who aspires to achieve buddhahood along with other sentient beings and

3. Shepherd-like Bodhisattva - one who aspires to delay buddhahood until all other sentient beings achieve buddhahood.

 

A bodhisattva wishes to help all beings attain nirvana. He must therefore refuse to enter nirvana himself, as he cannot apparently render any services to the living beings of the worlds after his own nirvana.

 

He thus finds himself in the rather illogical position of pointing the way to nirvana for other beings, while he himself stays in this world of suffering in order to do good to all creatures. This is his great sacrifice for others. He has taken the great Vow: "I shall not enter into final nirvana before all beings have been liberated." He does not realize the highest liberation for himself, as he cannot abandon other beings to their fate. He has said: "I must lead all beings to liberation. I will stay here till the end, even for the sake of one living soul."

 

The word 'bodhisattva' itself is prone to a rich etymological analysis. It is composed of two words 'bodhi' and 'sattva' both of which connote deeply spiritually meanings. Bodhi means "awakening" or "enlightenment," and sattva means "sentient being." Sattva also has etymological roots that mean "intention," meaning the intention to enlighten other beings. Thus the composite word bodhisattva signifies the very essence of the divine beings it refers to.

 

For me this beautiful rendering of the 'bodhisattva' is just as beautiful as the bible rendering of the 'savior of the world'. It describes the same thing as an enlightened one becoming the savior and taking others from no awareness to awareness. Just as in christianity the mind of christ is risen within, we see the same thing as one is awakened spiritually in the writing above.

 

I have not done enough study of other religions to find the similarities in them but Im sure they are there in many of them.

 

Personally, I love discovering things like this

 

sojourner

 

There is a practice in the Mahayana/Vajrayana traditions wherein everyone (every person, animal and plant) except one's self is actually a Bodhisattva, and is only hanging around to try and help the one last one out of Samsara and to enlightenment... and then you treat them as such... every cut up, every dumb comment is actually trying to get one to see the 'joke'...and should be regarded with gratitude.

 

As you can tell, I don't subscribe to that idea, preferring the Zendo style 'The Three Stooges' slapstick approach to getting to see the underpinning reality...

[Grandpa Harley]

"I will not be bullied by either the spiritual person who says I must not be intellectual like I meet in church or the intellectual that say I must not be spiritual if I am going to be intellectual like I meet so often here."

 

Awww.... Diddums.... are nasty peopwle bullyin' da wittle man... You turn up, spread crap and then whine about being 'bullied'... turn it down to a dull roar will ya? My ears are bleeding...

[Kratos]

And this tallies with your Romans and Timothy prejudices quite how? Your pseudo-inclusivism really just rings hollow with your application of Pauline thought about Women and Homosexuals... hence you get called a hypocrite when you try and gloss your poison with something as superficially reasonable as the above... Also, you're using a dead language to support your ideas when you earlier dismissed the use of dead languages to support an idea. Why is that?

 

AND THE WORD IS BUDDHIST! NOT BHUDDIST!!! OR IS GOOD SPELLING TOO DAMNED INTELLECTUAL AND NOT SPIRITUAL ENOUGH?

 

GH,

 

You know there are two kinds of people in this world. There are those who try to come together by finding common ground and there are those who try to keep us apart by always focusing on the differences. Which group do you think you fall into?

 

In Christiandom, we call some universalists because they look forward to the day when we all will be united in One and others we call fundamentalists because no matter what things we agree on, all they can keep asking is if you have made Jesus your Lord. The first group sees us all on the same road though all at different places on that road. The second can only see "us" and "them". Or "good people" and "bad people".

 

Some here disagree with me on domestic order and homosexuality like you do, but they look beyond that and see some good in me worth exploring. These seem like universalist atheists to coin a phrase. But you and some others must be fundamentalist atheists because everytime you see some of us coming together, you cannot keep from throwing up a way that we disagree so our "us" and "them" lines become clear again.

 

So, GH, how does it feel to be a "fundie"? LOL

 

John

[Kuroikaze]

GH,

 

You know there are two kinds of people in this world. There are those who try to come together by finding common ground and there are those who try to keep us apart by always focusing on the differences. Which group do you think you fall into?

 

In Christiandom, we call some universalists because they look forward to the day when we all will be united in One and others we call fundamentalists because no matter what things we agree on, all they can keep asking is if you have made Jesus your Lord. The first group sees us all on the same road though all at different places on that road. The second can only see "us" and "them". Or "good people" and "bad people".

 

Some here disagree with me on domestic order and homosexuality like you do, but they look beyond that and see some good in me worth exploring. These seem like universalist atheists to coin a phrase. But you and some others must be fundamentalist atheists because everytime you see some of us coming together, you cannot keep from throwing up a way that we disagree so our "us" and "them" lines become clear again.

 

So, GH, how does it feel to be a "fundie"? LOL

 

John

 

 

You talk about wanting to find common ground but then call us fundies, which you know will be taken as offensive, you are being a hypocrite.

 

I don't think my main goal is to keeps people apart, I am just enough of a realist to know that not everyone is going to get along. Should I only focus on the things I agree on with neo-Nazis? Seems kind of silly when put in those terms, some people are so different in their thoughts that there is no way I could get along with them, and indeed I think there would be something wrong with me if I ignored the wrong other people do in the name of pluralism and getting along. Of course I would never advocate violence as a method of pushing my views on others, but I don't believe in getting along at any cost.

 

I don't have any disagreement with anything Antlerman has said, he uses different language, and tends to focus on different things than I do, but I don't disagree him. I have no problem admitting that I don't understand everything, or that humans have needs that go beyond pure logic or reason, I'm not Spock or something. I just don't think it makes sense to say that because we have these needs, there is a God or other supernatural things. As Douglas Adams said once, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

[Deva]

In Christiandom, we call some universalists because they look forward to the day when we all will be united in One and others we call fundamentalists because no matter what things we agree on, all they can keep asking is if you have made Jesus your Lord. The first group sees us all on the same road though all at different places on that road. The second can only see "us" and "them". Or "good people" and "bad people".

 

Is this actually your view that we will "all be united in One?" I assume it is, because as usual you are dividing people into groups and labelling them and the more positive group is where you see yourself.

 

It is either One now or it is never One. Why would we be disuinited now and suddenly one day in some far off future become united? What makes you think it will be "united in One" and just what does that mean? You speak of One but divide people into parts like "carnal" and "spiritual". These are just words with no meaning.

 

You said in an earlier post:

Many Christians see salvation as just going to Heaven when we die. This is not only not scriptual, but it puts off life for the future and can make some so heavenly minded that they are of no earthly good.

 

I would doubt that "many" Christians see salvation in that manner. Anyway, I am sure I could pull out a scriptual basis for it if I took the time. But if your position is that we will eventually be "united in One", aren't you doing the same thing these Christians are doing?

 

You continually contradict yourself.

 

Some here disagree with me on domestic order and homosexuality

 

Yes, and we will continue to. You can't maintain that you are "spiritual" and divide people and promote oppression.

 

These seem like universalist atheists to coin a phrase. But you and some others must be fundamentalist atheists because everytime you see some of us coming together, you cannot keep from throwing up a way that we disagree so our "us" and "them" lines become clear again.

 

You have a very narrow view yourself, Kratos. We are not all atheists here.

[Grandpa Harley]

Seems I irritated wuzzums with a dose of unpalatable truth... I wonder if he allows his wife or servants to read this... 'Domestic Order' BWAHAHHHHHAAAAHA and I thought my vocabulary was stuck in the 18th Century...

 

On my hammering on your opinions of 'domestic order' and homosexuality... I hit it because it makes your words a whited sepulchre... they may sound glorious, but on the inside they seethe with corruption. Rotten at the core is rotten. Like the curate's egg, despite the excellent parts, bringing it to the table just stinks the place up. I'd hate a new comer to think 'This man is making some sense' when at the bottom of your philosophy there is but worm and gall... thus, I'll be here to keep you honest while ever you post your polished excrement.

 

A pox on thee and thy tribe, thou venomous, gusting, reptile...

[Neon Genesis]

Some here disagree with me on domestic order and homosexuality like you do, but they look beyond that and see some good in me worth exploring.

It's kind of hard for me to find anything in a homophobe that's "worth exploring" when I'm gay.

 

These seem like universalist atheists to coin a phrase. But you and some others must be fundamentalist atheists because everytime you see some of us coming together, you cannot keep from throwing up a way that we disagree so our "us" and "them" lines become clear again.

 

So, GH, how does it feel to be a "fundie"? LOL

 

John

For the record, there is no such thing as "fundamentalist" atheists: http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p...damentalist.htm

[SWIM]

These seem like universalist atheists to coin a phrase. But you and some others must be fundamentalist atheists because everytime you see some of us coming together, you cannot keep from throwing up a way that we disagree so our "us" and "them" lines become clear again.

 

So, GH, how does it feel to be a "fundie"? LOL

 

John

 

I would like to point out that "Open Minded" strongly disagrees with you, so where is this "coming together"? Do you do LSD? You seem like you are tripping most of the time, better take it easy on that stuff...

[Grandpa Harley]

Maybe it's like St John the Divine... fly agaric, malnutrition and ergoty bread...

[sojourner]

There is a practice in the Mahayana/Vajrayana traditions wherein everyone (every person, animal and plant) except one's self is actually a Bodhisattva, and is only hanging around to try and help the one last one out of Samsara and to enlightenment... and then you treat them as such... every cut up, every dumb comment is actually trying to get one to see the 'joke'...and should be regarded with gratitude.

 

As you can tell, I don't subscribe to that idea, preferring the Zendo style 'The Three Stooges' slapstick approach to getting to see the underpinning reality...

 

wow I really like that, its a beautiful way to see life and all those that you come in contact with. Thanks for sharing that, I will look further into it.

 

sojourner

[Grandpa Harley]

I encountered the idea while hanging out with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's 'Demon worshipping apostates, who sold their souls for money and power'... according to H.H. Dalai Lama at least... I found them perfectly nice 'Demon worshipping apostates, who sold their souls for money and power', who don't make a bad pot roast...

[sojourner]

Grandpa you really cracked me up, you just have a way of saying things

 

Its sad to me how we demonize those we dont understand or who dont fit in our box

 

so they cooked a mean pot roast, yum

 

sojourner

[Grandpa Harley]

That should be 'nut' roast... my spell checker failed on my bad typing...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Kadampa_Tradition covers some of the controversy... In Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism there's been almost a holy war over the veneration of Dorje Shugden... HH reckons Shugden is a demon, NKT reckons he's their patron Boddhisatva...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Shugden