SWIM Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Ok, this is exciting stuff! You know all that stuff out there in de ole sky that you can see? That stuff, stars planets, and galaxies too, ALL dat stuff... is... the MINORITY of things an stuff in the universe! Not a speculation, no, not a theory. It has in fact, been proven truth. Oddly, this has been a proven fact since 2006, but there is no real attention being given to it by anyone, save a scant few, it is like the idea of being part of just 10% or so of the universe is not "interesting" enough to the world... Why do we need science fiction when science fact is so intriguing? It's a bet that finally paid off, because a team of scientists working with NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory has found direct evidence that dark matter is as real as the rings around Saturn. The discovery cements dark matter's status as the biggest building block in the universe, while also putting to rest the nagging worries of many astronomers that they gambled wrong. http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsg...ter_proven.html http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2006/1e0657/media/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 bump. no comments? Hmm.. I thought this would spark some discussion since we have been speaking lately of "big "picture" type things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I did read it when you posted it, but what can I say more than... coooool... We had one question in one place regarding dark energy. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think dark matter and dark energy are two different things. And dark energy might be much harder to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 What a stupid article! For a start, light matter is said to make up 4% of the universe, DM 24% and the other 72% is said to be dark energy. Enough mythology. The picture so lacks detail that a solar system sized black hole with a billion solar masses would be about atom sized on that scale. No one can agree what this "proven DM" is. Is it neutrino size or fifty times the size of a proton? It is said to be about 9000.C but does not radiate heat. It is said to continually move at many thousands of miles an hour and never lose speed. It cannot clump and so form small structures but allegedly can form very large structures. It reacts gravitationally (only) and should be part of every moon, planet and star. It should also be mopped up by every black hole as they wander around in their galaxies to the point that there should be no DM left. It is said to exist mainly in the halo of a galaxy but despite six times the light mass existing there, every spiral galaxy looks like it is made of light matter only. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 What a stupid article! For a start, light matter is said to make up 4% of the universe, DM 24% and the other 72% is said to be dark energy. Enough mythology. The picture so lacks detail that a solar system sized black hole with a billion solar masses would be about atom sized on that scale. No one can agree what this "proven DM" is. Is it neutrino size or fifty times the size of a proton? It is said to be about 9000.C but does not radiate heat. It is said to continually move at many thousands of miles an hour and never lose speed. It cannot clump and so form small structures but allegedly can form very large structures. It reacts gravitationally (only) and should be part of every moon, planet and star. It should also be mopped up by every black hole as they wander around in their galaxies to the point that there should be no DM left. It is said to exist mainly in the halo of a galaxy but despite six times the light mass existing there, every spiral galaxy looks like it is made of light matter only. And so on. The article was about PROOF that dark matter EXISTS, not WHAT it is... Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 I did read it when you posted it, but what can I say more than... coooool... We had one question in one place regarding dark energy. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think dark matter and dark energy are two different things. And dark energy might be much harder to prove. They are not sure, like I said last post, it's proof it exists, not "what" it is. But it could be two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Proof of a dark 'something' and it's most of the universe... It's Azathoth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 What a stupid article! For a start, light matter is said to make up 4% of the universe, DM 24% and the other 72% is said to be dark energy. Enough mythology. The picture so lacks detail that a solar system sized black hole with a billion solar masses would be about atom sized on that scale. No one can agree what this "proven DM" is. Is it neutrino size or fifty times the size of a proton? It is said to be about 9000.C but does not radiate heat. It is said to continually move at many thousands of miles an hour and never lose speed. It cannot clump and so form small structures but allegedly can form very large structures. It reacts gravitationally (only) and should be part of every moon, planet and star. It should also be mopped up by every black hole as they wander around in their galaxies to the point that there should be no DM left. It is said to exist mainly in the halo of a galaxy but despite six times the light mass existing there, every spiral galaxy looks like it is made of light matter only. And so on. How RUDE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 SWIM. Of course all sorts of unseen matter exists. Black holes, brown dwarfs, dust, all sorts of particles, even the solar wind of a billion stars. Yet when scientists talk of dark matter, they mean a specific and presently unknown particle which out-masses all other matter in the universe by a factor of several times. The photo is on such a scale that we have no way of knowing what caused what they claim. They have not produced any spectra to try and show other causes either. A galaxy full of old dwarf stars (which make up 70% of all stars) would have had the same effect. For them to just say that this photo proves dark matter is bad science. It doesn't. At best it proves unseen matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 PandaPirate. I only have 119 posts at this moment in time but prefer them to be relevant rather than just tasteless and meaningless criticisms of others. I checked out your posts and apart from the ones which are just to build up numbers (ie: a few words), you talk about other people being smelly (Mar 13), you used the word "pissed" (Mar 13) which I consider vulgar, you repeat posts (Mar 12 and 14), you use ... (Mar 10) which I should imagine is a substitute for the S word, criticise your boyfriend in public (Feb 26) and so on. How rude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I don't know. I just don't know. I've lost a certain amount of trust in physics in the last few years. I can't disprove what they are saying, but I just don't trust them. A friend of mine who is much more fluent in the language of physics than I am addresses some of these subjects. http://www.panmere.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 PandaPirate. I only have 119 posts at this moment in time but prefer them to be relevant rather than just tasteless and meaningless criticisms of others. I checked out your posts and apart from the ones which are just to build up numbers (ie: a few words), you talk about other people being smelly (Mar 13), you used the word "pissed" (Mar 13) which I consider vulgar, you repeat posts (Mar 12 and 14), you use ... (Mar 10) which I should imagine is a substitute for the S word, criticise your boyfriend in public (Feb 26) and so on. How rude! I'm getting the popcorn out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Legion Regalis. I know what you mean. In the last decade I have divided physics up into FACT and SPECULATION. We have parts of physics which are obviously true and we have parts of physics for which there is no evidence but are believed by many of the physics community to be true. I question the latter, which upsets the people who live in mathsworld and some idle bystanders. It is strange that for a normal spiral galaxy, the light matter is arranged as though there is only light matter. Yet we are told that there is SIX times as much dark matter which only works gravitationally and yet does not seem to affect the light matter shape of the galaxy. If the DM were in the halo as some claim, we would have a ring doughnut shape galaxy instead of a spiral. There is also the point that black holes moving around the galaxy as well as the central SM BH would casually hoover up all the large DM structures which are said to exist, so eventually they would contain all DM in a galaxy. Even normal stars, planets and moons should hoover up DM since it reacts gravitationally. I have a theory. Earth was thought to be flat by the ancients because if you take a small enough part of any circle, it does appear like a straight line. On Earth, one arc second comes out to just 101 feet (which appears flat to us). One arc second of our path around the galaxy is about 855,000,000,000 miles which takes about 194 years for our solar system to traverse. On our scale, this is a perfectly straight line. I think the curve is so slight that we are on a natural path, imparted to our sun in the origin of the galaxy and barring a gravitational force changing it, we will continue on it forever, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Kaneda I wish that I could speak with you about these things in more depth. You clearly have some knowledge and interest. More and more I am turning towards biology for answers. I am beginning to have some suspicions. I suspect that the nature of the entire universe is reflected in each part of it. And I suspect that to best see that nature we would do well to look at organisms. This flies in the face of physics which by and large holds that organisms are a negligible or insignificant portion of the universe. I hear people speak often about how religion needs to reform. And I agree. Yet I get an almost equally pressing feeling that science needs to reform. I think we are due to cast off this preoccupation with matter, and concentrate on principles of organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Mandelbrot's fractal. The form in itself, repeats itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Dis anyone see this month's Sci Am that now idicates all remnants of the Big Bang will ultimatly be 'lost', and the 'universe' will look like the thought it looked in the 19th C (one big Island Galaxy, all other galaxies gone beyond the 'event horizon' of Hubble expansion, and no background microwave hiss to even indicate how the universe started...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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