4truth Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 My sister called the other day. It sounds like she's had a complete breakdown. She is a mom, lived in a nice house, has a nice car, a successful business, etc. She told me," I don't know how you can not believe in god. He's helped me in so many ways to get through this." I didn't say this because she sounded so vulnerable, but I wanted to say, " Yeah, he's helped you. He's allowed you to spend time in jail, be kicked out of your house, your marriage to be destroyed, your children to be alienated from you, your teenage daughter placed in residential care for severe mental illness, and basically your whole life to be screwed up. " Thanks, but I can do without that kind of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Some people believe in god because they have no faith in themselves. They have been taught that they can never rise above their troubles without the help of a supreme deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 My sister called the other day. It sounds like she's had a complete breakdown. She is a mom, lived in a nice house, has a nice car, a successful business, etc. She told me," I don't know how you can not believe in god. He's helped me in so many ways to get through this." I didn't say this because she sounded so vulnerable, but I wanted to say, " Yeah, he's helped you. He's allowed you to spend time in jail, be kicked out of your house, your marriage to be destroyed, your children to be alienated from you, your teenage daughter placed in residential care for severe mental illness, and basically your whole life to be screwed up. " Thanks, but I can do without that kind of help. I'm not sure what she thinks he helped her with--does she mean your deconversion??? I would probably have been brazen enough to tell her (given that she was crying on the phone), "It doesn't sound like he's helping you much right now." I'll bet that would have dried up her tears in a hurry. I might or might not have waited to hear her response, depending on my mood. Okay, I'm not sure what I would have done in Fall 2006. My family put me through the wringer and I have learned to take a firm stand with them for my own survival, sanity, and well-being. They will respect no boundaries and will use guilt trips and other emotional manipulation. It sounds to me like that is what this sister is doing to you full blast. NOT FAIR. You don't have to put up with it. If she doesn't like the idea of contemplating about seeing you in hell she can pray god to convert you back to religion. Ask her if she believes in prayer. She better does! She's religious, right? She has to. Then ask her if she trusts the power of the Holy Spirit to convert people. Again, she has to. Her religion says so. Now play your trump card. Tell her, "If you don't like the idea of seeing me in hell, talk to God about it. Don't talk to me if you want me for a sister. If you ever talk to me like this again, I'll hang up on you and never talk to you again." That is, if you want to be rid of her. If you don't want to be rid of her, then don't say it. There are other versions of the condition. In my case, all I was after was to stop the letters. I did not make any conditions or threats because I did not feel any were necessary with that particular sister. The challenge to her faith was lots enough. All I did was ask her to pray rather than to write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The day my ex and I called it quits she kept trying to tell me how much God had helped me and I started to explain that God doesn't help us. I said to her: "Look at your life and the shit you've gone through. Look how hard you struggled and fought. YOU did the work, YOU fought, YOU turned yourself into the tough, amazing person that you are. What did God ever do for you?" Biggest reaction I ever got out of her. She didn't yell, just went totally silent and started crying. Eventually she said: "I don't care what you say, God helped me." Her reaction kinda shocked me actually. Guess I'll never know what went on in her head during those few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oddmanout Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Even in my fundiest days, I never thought that a god was helping me, except possibly 'endowing' me with a will to survive and the wits to find a way out. A 'loving' god wouldn't have allowed the circumstances of my life to occur and not have put my family in so much pain (oh, I can quote and write volumes on the Reformed position on why 'God" allows human suffering, but it's all intellectual crap). A god didn't 'endow' me; my genetics and upbringing and learning helped me survive and will continue to guide me, and better yet, allow me to learn and grow instead of blindly and numbingly search for and hope for some positive sign from a non-existant higher entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The day my ex and I called it quits she kept trying to tell me how much God had helped me and I started to explain that God doesn't help us. I said to her: "Look at your life and the shit you've gone through. Look how hard you struggled and fought. YOU did the work, YOU fought, YOU turned yourself into the tough, amazing person that you are. What did God ever do for you?" Biggest reaction I ever got out of her. She didn't yell, just went totally silent and started crying. Eventually she said: "I don't care what you say, God helped me." Her reaction kinda shocked me actually. Guess I'll never know what went on in her head during those few seconds. That sounds kinda sad, my impression reading that is, that she had her first REAL glimpse of awakening, and it saddened her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 There was a guy on headline news after the tornados whipped through the south killing a bunch of people. He was in tears about how thankful he was to god that his child was spared getting killed. Yeah... Thank you god for destroying all my shit, and my wife, and leaving my son motherless, you loving, forgiving, helpful thing you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 That's a pet peeve of mine since de-conversion: gawd gets all the credit and the debble gets the blame. How convienient. The football player who kneels in the end zone. Why? Did gawd just like you better than the other team or does one of his faithful have a fistful of tithes bet on you? The folks grateful to gawd for their lives after a disaster. Why? What did y'all do to piss him off in the first place? (So I'll be sure not to.) Some even go as far as to celebrate misfortune as some sort of gawdly test that will be rewarded later. True delusion runs deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 My wife and I had this discussion a few months ago and surprisingly, it was a calm and civil discussion. She wasn't angry or upset when she asked me how I could turn my back on God after all he's done for me. It was an honest question on her part. She reminded me of some of my own words and my reaction to certain situations. I had no choice but to conceed that I had, indeed, said those things and reacted in the manner that I had. She was legitimately curious as to how I could now think it was all bullshit. As we continued the discussion, I reminded her of other things I'd said in the past as well. One particular statement I remember making in the late 80's was, "I can't see myself not smoking marijuana and I will smoke it until the day I die." Within a few short years, the United States Army had a big hand in changing my mind on that! Being a soldier was a total life changing event and marijuana no longer fit my life. Sure, I still missed it (and still do), but it was no longer a viable option. I explained to her that, at the time and in the way I viewed life, statements that I'd made about God doing this and God doing that and blah, blah, blah were normal. I told her than I could point out things that she'd said prior to conversion that refuted her current beliefs, too. I illustrated the fact that I could easily say, "You're not the woman I married!!!" and be totally correct and yet to expect someone to be, think, and do as they did twenty years ago would be ridiculous at best. When she was able to see and admit that her life had taken many divergent paths and would ultimately continue to do so, she was able to understand that mine had and would, too. I don't expect her to agree with my thinking or my lack of faith because I once shared her views. She's a wonderful woman and though she is still shocked by little things I say, she's still very happy with the things I do... without the help of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 "she's still very happy with the things I do..." Did you never wonder why they call you 'Foot Dog' in the changing room? and in answer to the OP, it's the 'Footprints' syndrome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'd like to know, on what basis has your sister formed the belief that any god had any hand in anything she did to overcome her life's challenges. I mean...did she get an email from heaven or something? A post card, perhaps? A little ditty from the deity: "Hey little mortal, I did it for you. Enjoy. Me Bless You. Love, God, a.k.a. Jesus and Holy Ghost." Nothing like that happened, I'll bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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