MultifariousBirdLady Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Have you seen these? The New Anti-Paganism http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/02/new-anti-paganism.html Pagans Need Exorcisms http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/02/pagans-need-exorcisms.html Any thoughts about this trend? Is it a trend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 What these articles suggest is this: Authoritarian Christianity is fast losing its grip on the Western world. As it dies, it's flailing around looking for an enemy, an excuse, any possible outlet for its frustration. (adds another row of sandbags to Her bunker and charges up a few rune-grenades, just in case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultifariousBirdLady Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 What these articles suggest is this: Authoritarian Christianity is fast losing its grip on the Western world. As it dies, it's flailing around looking for an enemy, an excuse, any possible outlet for its frustration. (adds another row of sandbags to Her bunker and charges up a few rune-grenades, just in case) Maybe, maybe not. The "mainstream" and liberal churches are shrinking, but conservative evangelical churches are still growing, as are both Pagan faiths and, I'm pretty sure, wholly secular views. I'm not quite sure why the one article says that secularism is waning (is there some data which says that?), but with the growth in both fundamentalist/evangelical Xtianity and Paganism, it seems reasonable to suggest that more conflicts will arise over time. And if at some point we're branded Enemy #2 (I think Islam is still Enemy #1 to many Western Christians right now), I don't know... I could see the accusations start flying. Perhaps even some more fine-tuned accusations, as a *few* of the book reviews for Wicca's Charm suggest. Now, on the other hand, there may be a real opportunity here for Pagans, too. From what I've read, the pressure put on early Christians by Pagan philosophers and critics helped them to think about their faith and articulate it in a more sensible manner than had been done previously. It's possible that similar pressure from the Christians, if/when it comes, can help spur Pagans to do the same, each from within their own tradition. In some ways, this kind of challenge might actually be productive, if it remains at the level of written argument and doesn't result in a mob with pitchforks at one's door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Problem: Modern pagan paths are frequently fluid and tend to be very anti-dogmatic. More specifically, even within a particular tradition or path, adherents may and frequently do have wildly varying beliefs. Due to this, finding an authority to attack, is hard for them, but forming an authoritative defense is impossible. Effectively, there is nothing to be done about cherry-picking among modern pagan paths, and shouting "look at what dem ebil pagans believe." And given the prevalence of fluff-bunnies and "look at how spooky and edgy" practitioners out there, yeah, this would be a problem. Even worse if they do some actual frigging research, and pull things out of context from Gardner, Crowley, LaVey, Spare, Caroll, &c. That being said, it has been defending my views in discussions with Evangelical Christians, and the occasional Jesuit, that has helped me forge something much more self-consistent, coherent, and useful. It is a double edged sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Have you seen these? Pagans Need Exorcisms http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/02/pagans-need-exorcisms.html Any thoughts about this trend? Is it a trend? 'In other words, Pagans need exorcisms! But don't worry, we will be in good company, since women who want to get a divorce also seem to need some demons ejected.'--according to the article. I thought that was what child birth was for?--getting rid of the little beggers inside! I've always thought my son was a changling. Should have had the exorcism for his mother before he was born! Damn, I always forget this shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Have you seen these? The New Anti-Paganism http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/02/new-anti-paganism.html Pagans Need Exorcisms http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/02/pagans-need-exorcisms.html Any thoughts about this trend? Is it a trend? Well, I wouldn't call it a trend. It's simply a characteristic of Christianity. It's nothing new. Completely unsurprising to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eejay Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I'm not surprised at the article either. Quite a few years back, my mom's pastor tried an exorcism on me. Guess it didn't work...did it? Hahahaha. Just more nuts for the big fruitcake in he sky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Oh, yes, I remember someone trying to exorcise me one time. It was very boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhermit Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 In my early days as a Christian universalist - 25 years ago - the church hauled me in to show me how wrong I was. When they could not win the debate they told me I was possessed by the Spirit of Error. They tried to banish the Spirit and when that failed they booted me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 In my early days as a Christian universalist - 25 years ago - the church hauled me in to show me how wrong I was. When they could not win the debate they told me I was possessed by the Spirit of Error. They tried to banish the Spirit and when that failed they booted me out. I am totally surprised, cuz the holy spook is supposed to be all powerful ... Then again, god could not defeat an army armed with iron weapons and chariots either ... (Judges 1:19) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Haha yes, Pagans need pagan rituals performed on them in order to stop being pagans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Among a certain subset of pagans, that ritual would be called "graduation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Problem: Modern pagan paths are frequently fluid and tend to be very anti-dogmatic. More specifically, even within a particular tradition or path, adherents may and frequently do have wildly varying beliefs. Due to this, finding an authority to attack, is hard for them, but forming an authoritative defense is impossible. Effectively, there is nothing to be done about cherry-picking among modern pagan paths, and shouting "look at what dem ebil pagans believe." Christianity was in a somewhat similar position at the beginning of the second century. There were many different sects, each of which apparently took a great deal from the outside culture as well as from what are now considered authoritative Christian texts. And yet a complex theology emerged. That's not to downplay the important role that tradition and the church structure played, but we have to remember that there were some major choices made as to what books and interpretations to adopt. What seems obvious now in hindsight were sites of major contention during the rise of Christianity. To be sure, one won't have anything like the Council of Nicaea for paganism--at least, I hope not!--but that does not preclude the standardization and articulation of points that are unclear, confused, and disagreed upon among pagans. For instance, around here, pagans tend to agree on some basic points. One runs into a few exceptions, of course, but they're, as I said, exceptions. Around here, pagans usually believe in gods (of some form, and usually plural in some sense), magic, nature spirits, etc. Here at my university, there are a few of us who are fairly well versed in ancient paganism, and have incorporated elements of that into our practices and beliefs. Agreement on standardized articulations of these points could never be enforced by the threat of excommunication, but that does not preclude the building of a consensus. I think it highly likely, for instance, that there will be an even more serious backlash against "fluffies," and there will emerge even more people who are pickier about the definitions of "Wicca" and "paganism." From that could spawn some serious intellectual credibility. Paganism tends to attract some very intelligent individuals. Given a proper forum based on a consensus, I could see some seriously nice work coming out. I think we're already beginning to see some of this in the blogosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kei Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 Have you seen these? The New Anti-Paganism http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/02/new-anti-paganism.html Pagans Need Exorcisms http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/02/pagans-need-exorcisms.html Any thoughts about this trend? Is it a trend? while it is somewhat alarming that people are this afraid of pagans...i can't help but laugh at the mass stupidity. maybe i'm just used to this sort of thinking becuase of the overwhelming die-hard christian population surrounding me. but i do see humor in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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