Michael Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I am a father of three great kids and married to a wonderful wife. We do not longer attend any church and are not interested in any xian stuff. My parents in law know this and yes, they even accept it. What they do not know is, that I no longer believe in the xian god and that I am sure that the bible is crap. They still bring us xian books, because they hope that we will come back to the holy church one day (they are baptists). My actual problem is, that they bring "gifts" for our children every week. Coloured biblestories, bible comics, funny cd´s and tapes, dvd, what ever you can imagine. Our kids love this stuff. The "funny" story of noah, david and goliath, and other all time favourite children stories. So far no problem. Last night my son (8yrs) asked me about my hypnotherapy training and if it would be possible to help him with nightmares. I said "yes, of course, I could help you then to deal with your nightmares". He thought about it and said, that it would be better to keep the nightmares, so that god could speak to him. I asked more questions and he believes, that god speaks to people in nightmares about the end of the world (as he did with noah). His picture of god is already fucked up and that with 8 yrs. In addition to this: We live in a catholic village. So the kindergarten is catholic, the school is catholic, they pray before they start the lessons, before they eat, to him it is normal. One more thing is, that my mother in law suffers from schizophrenia and that she has weird ideas about god and his work in her life and in the life of her family (the childhood of my wife has been a nightmare). I do not want my children to fall into the same guilt trap as I did. They are convinced that god created the world and whenever my mother in law has the opportunity, she will implant some crazy shit into my kids. Please do not misunderstand me. She is a wonderful person and she would do everything for us, but she has a religious mania (delusion? my dictionary is not sure about this ...). Has anyone an idea, how I could deal with this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 15, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted February 15, 2008 I think mentally healthy children is the number one priority. I would tell her that we are not of her particular faith and would appreciate if she would refrain from leading YOUR children down her path. Let the chips fall. Kids are too vulnerable to this religious crap (it's an infantile notion, after all) and can be permanently screwed up from too much exposure at a young age. Just my thoughts. Good luck. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_PK Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Given your environment, I think you are going to have to be a little more assertive in talking with him about what you believe. My suggestion is to find a story that he likes but knows is made-up, and then talk about how there are some people who think made-up things are real, and then finally talk about religious stories he's heard. I think it would also be good to find some mythology to read to him - there are lots of gods in those stories, and knowing a lot about multiple gods makes you less likely to believe in a specific one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 A couple of months ago, my wife overheard a neighbor kid telling our daughter (just slightly younger than your son) the xian line: basically that there was a devil with whom she'd fry in hell forever if she wasn't a xian, and making a pretty good attempt at fear mongering using Old Scratch as the bogeyman. I knew she'd also been hearing some other stuff from school children from what she told me (apparently less fire and brimstone than that, more on how "fun" church was supposed to be). As we talked, I told her that a lot of people had a lot of different beliefs, and that many of them thought that if you did not subscribe to some religion, usually THEIR particular flavor of religion, that you'd be punished in some sort of afterlife. I essentially told her that people like this girl were just repeating what they had been told and that there was nothing to support people's various claims of a hell and how to avoid it. I told here there was nothing to worry about. I gently probed to see if she seemed to have bought anything she heard, and I'm pretty sure she hasn't. My wife has spoken similarly with her, although she is a sort of non-practicing catholic, so what she said probably took on a different flavor from what I said (albeit she doesn't buy that our daughter is going to hell any more than I do). It's sad that you have to do this to protect your kid from being taken in by made up tales and claims of eternal damnation, but I think you might need to do something similar to what we have done to address the propaganda he's being hit with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Has anyone an idea, how I could deal with this situation? As far as the gifts are concerned, you can dilute the effects by having a stock of non-religious stuff that is about on the same level, and give them to them later, when she gives the gifts to them (in private of course). Secondly, watch the dvds with them, look at the books with them, and in your own gentle way, point out the dumbass in the stories, ever so gently. Third, claim that you discovered they were made in china and contain lead paint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Has anyone an idea, how I could deal with this situation? My mom sent a bunch of Bibles, the NT, to my kids. I gave it to them, told them to read it, and it only lasted for two weeks. I told them to ask me if they had any questions. And the only thing that came out of it was that they found a whole bunch of funny names, like Asaph. So they were joking, and saying, that their first child would be named "Laughing My Asaph", or "Manuel Labor" and such. Then they stopped reading by themselves... (Even though I sometimes tell them to continue - they just don't - too many other things to do and they think the Bible is silly.) The best weapon against religion is: education. Tell them, explain to them, but do it honestly and truthfully. Don't exaggerate, but tell the as it is, and why things bad and even tell them the (few) good things about religion. Because if you only tell them the bad things, and they try it, and they feel good about it for some reason, they think you didn't tell them the truth. You have to tell them it's emotional and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Thank you for your ideas. Today I have spoken with them about the fact that there are different religions. My daugther (7yrs) was upset. "My god is the right one." My son is not very troubled about it. He thinks that it is "Fair play" to let other people worship other gods. We offer different books and dvds to them. My son loves Harry Potter and our daugther is a fan of a german comic witch. I think we will just reduce the xian stuff and replace it with other literature. Time might bring a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 It's funny that I happen to be reading this thread while my kids are across the room watching Veggie Tales. LOL My mother is much like your mother-in-law, she buys my kids religious books and lots of Veggie Tales videos in an attempt to get some God into this house. My kids are 10 and almost 6 now. My 10 year old has been watching Veggie Tales (sometimes quite regularly) since infancy. We let him watch it for a few reasons: 1)keeps Grandma off our backs, 2)we see some social value in our kids knowing the basics of some bible stories, 3)we think they are funny. Do they cause my kids to ask questions about God? You betcha! More so, now that they are a bit older and understand that Dad and I aren't believers. It's a great chance for us to talk about people's beliefs and our own. I like my kids to be well rounded people with a big world view. I could protect them for all xtian imagery, but how would that make me any better than my fundy parents? This stuff exists, people believe it (a lot of people in North America) and I want my kids to know and understand that. You can ask you mother-in-law to stop giving this stuff to your kids, but to what end? You'll upset her and you'll never protect you kids from xtian imagery and stories. My kids know that these are stories, just like all other stories, made up for our entertainment. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Veggie Tales are pretty funny. Some stories are way too "religious", but some are quite entertaining. And at times I could see they're not completely correct in their Christian views. We haven't watched them in years though, because my kids are getting too old. My favorite is the sing-a-long (silly-songs), like "we are the pirates, who don't do anything", or "I love my lips, ushta", or "Oh, where is my hairbrush". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughtyhamster Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I read once about how this atheist guy was getting frustrated about the next door xtian neighbor's kids brainwashing his daughter about xtianity. Well he created a lesson about atheism out of her love of squirrels. As she was concerned about a deformed squirrel that ran around their back yard he asked her "Now if God existed, and is good, why would he make that squirrel deformed? If someone was good would they hurt another living thing such as this squirrel?" The guy's daughter, who was seven at the time, understood what her father meant and told the xtian kids "There's no God because he wouldn't make deformed squirrels if he were real." the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I wonder what "test of faith" story the xian parents dreamed up to counter-act that argument with. Deformed kids, yes, but deformed squirrels... I'm just waiting to see whether this christian-atheist debate can be won one way or another. I think I'm having a civil debate and I think they're running out of arguments. I think I'm supposed to be convulsing with guilt attacks by now and it's not happening. At least, not that I notice. They're basically Mennonites so I feel like I'm on familiar ground and I've thought my way through the issues they raise via my own deconversion process. Hopefully I have also established that I'm not going to explode in anger if they bring up religion or quote scripture. (I tolerate much more there than here because I'm on their turf.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelloChick Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Veggie Tales are pretty funny. Some stories are way too "religious", but some are quite entertaining. And at times I could see they're not completely correct in their Christian views. We haven't watched them in years though, because my kids are getting too old. My favorite is the sing-a-long (silly-songs), like "we are the pirates, who don't do anything", or "I love my lips, ushta", or "Oh, where is my hairbrush". Great! Now I've got "Oh where is my hairbrush" stuck in my head. YIKES! CelloChick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughtyhamster Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Unfortunately I think you might just have to ban all that xtian stuff coming into your house. I guess wait until the folks are gone to throw the shit away, and explain to your son how that xtian stuff that Grandma and Grandpa brings in will poison his thoughts and feelings. When I have children I'm going to be strict about any xtian shit coming into my house as I won't want my kids to be influenced by any of my relatives. As xtians ban secular things that might influence their children then we aught to as atheists and freethinkers be concerned about what xtian things our kids get their little hands on. When I have my kids no Veggie Tales ever ( and Barney but because he's so fucking annoying)! I wonder what "test of faith" story the xian parents dreamed up to counter-act that argument with. Deformed kids, yes, but deformed squirrels... I was grossed out by the deformed squirrel on that guy's site as he took an up close photo of the deformed squirrel and it had a parasitic infestation where maggots were burrowing into it's skin. I guess he thought of a wise opportunity to ask his daughter a serious question about atheism to make her think of how she was being influenced by the xtian kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 There are other ways to teach children morality without using religion. Sesame Street, IIRC, did a pretty good job of that. And it's still popular. Or, you could make up your own morality tales and tell them to your kids before bedtime. Print them out in Microsoft Word or something. Find a humanist group to join, if you can. Some of their groups have classes for kids as well as adults. If nothing else, it's a good support group. If I were you, I would be politely assertive about the Christian gifts and send your children to a public school when you can. You can also throw out the Christian gifts while your kids are gone to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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