Guest peavy Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 All to often, when I hear Christians talk about atheism, they usually make some inference or implication that without hope for an afterlife or the duty to "win" others for Christ, that atheists have a meaningless life. While I consider this to be garbage, it made me think. So, I was hoping to get some opinions, because as I see it, there is a natural conflict between mankind's natural hedonistic, selfish nature, and the providence of making society/Earth a better place for future generations. Opinions, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Does living in fear of punishment for doing the wrong thing make life any more meaningful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 When I decide what I want to be when I grow up, I'll let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 One of my life purposes is to NOT create any future generations. But then, I am somewhat of a radical, having a bit of sympathy for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement though I am not a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 One of my life purposes is to NOT create any future generations. But then, I am somewhat of a radical, having a bit of sympathy for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement though I am not a member. Something GH said recently about those qualities that make you NOT want to seek the position make you an IDEAL candidate for the position comes to mind. Ever see Idiocracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ever see the movie office space? (not the series). The main caracter's goal in life is to "do nothing". hehe That's my goal too, and I am doing a GREAT job of it, if I do say so myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 The “Christian Life†may not be meaningless, but it is certainly self-centered and pessimistic in regards to humanity and its future. What kind of world can we hope for our children when we are already convinced that humanity is inherently evil? What kind world can hope for our children when we are obsessed with our own salvation? No, the Christian life is not meaningless, that is for sure. It is filled with self-hate, self-doubt, and self-obsession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 See new things, meet new people, learn as much as I can, and try to leave a positive influence on everyone I meet. Help people that need it, think about and judge for myself how to live life, and what is right and wrong. All the while going by "To thine ownself be true". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Does the meaning you expect from life have anything to do with the meaning you get from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 18, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2008 Why must everything have meaning? I suppose it is easier to have a "meaningful", rewarding, useful life if you're not just marking time until you can be with your lord. Christians have purpose, but not meaning. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 My PURPOSE is to kill all the AGENTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 I'm quite willing to realize that I'm no different than anyone else. Not any better or any worse and certainly not on some mission to fulfill a purpose that was set aside for me alone before the foundations of the earth were laid. The fact that I'm a husband isn't remarkable at all and even the fact that I'm the father of two children isn't anything special. People get married and have kids every day of the week and will continue to do so long after I'm gone. I do my best at being a good husband and father, but I signed up for that, so why wouldn't I? It certainly isn't something "special" or monumental to love one's wife and kids, is it? Kinda comes naturally, if you ask me! I've never held employment that affected the world or my community in any real or lasting way. Simple jobs for the most part. I've been a truck driver, a professional musician, a soldier, a school teacher... and I really enjoyed doing all of those things. They gave me great satisfaction and allowed me to keep groceries in the house. Millions of people have done those jobs and done them well and I'm just one of them. I've given my best most days and I've always felt like I've earned my paycheck. There are quite a few folks on the planet I consider to be friends and I think they probably feel the same about me. We've always had a great time together and helped one another out if that was needed. I've had disagreements with some along the way, but I've managed to stay fairly well in the good graces of my friends and neighbors. Nothing earth-shattering about that. They treat me well, I treat them well. Pretty easy. There are plenty of assholes out there, but for the most part, the average Joe or Jane are good folks and that's why I don't mind helping out those who may be less fortunate than I consider myself to be. If there's been a tragedy or a difficult circumstance in the community, it's not heroic or above and beyond the call of duty to pitch in with time, effort, resources or even financial contributions. I know I'd sure appreciate it if someone helped me when I needed it, so being there to help others is really helping myself. So for me, the BIG PICTURE things - the things that "mean something" in life - are not a mission or a calling or a divine purpose. It's just acting and reacting to current surroundings and trying to keep more water out of the boat than in it. The pleasures of life certainly aren't things I'm going to relentlessly pursue or base my existence upon because they come and go so quickly and easily. That isn't to say I'm not going to enjoy them as much as I can along the way, but anyone with any life under their belt knows that happiness and amusement are worlds apart in comparison. I guess that's my view of life and what goes on in my mind. I don't think it's "special" that I'm a good husband and father, a hard working and technically proficient employee, a trusted and loyal friend, or one who gives a damn about folks who need a hand now and again. However... I love it. It's what makes getting up in the morning worthwhile and fun. I don't need to read something in to it that isn't there to understand that there's plenty to keep me busy, thinking, and laughing and just trying to get through the best I possibly can. Life isn't a cosmic assignment. But it's still pretty cool anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 My personal life purpose is to glorify the Holy Farter and the Lard Geeezus Kryasst with my life! Glory! For my life is not my own. I am crucified with Kryasst on the big giant stick: nevertheless I somehow magically live; yet not I, but Kryasst magically liveth in me by magically inhabiting my inner spook: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by magical thinking about the Son of Gawd, who loved me, and gave himself for me to the Holy Farter. (Gal. 2:20) Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin webmdave Posted February 18, 2008 Admin Share Posted February 18, 2008 So, if I return to the fold, my purpose in life is superior to all other human beings' purpose? Basically, a Christian believes purpose is found in being a Christian. I think purpose is individually found. What gives my life meaning won't necessarily be what others find meaningful. We are all different, and to suggest that religiously motivated "purpose" is superior to everyone else's is ignorant and perhaps arrogant. Christians believe the only purpose in life is to cow-tow to an invisible, imaginary deity who will dole out everlasting retributive horror on everyone who simply doesn't believe HE exists. I'm sure the members of Hitler's SS believed similarly. They thought they were ushering in a superior world and that forcing compliance on those who disagreed is was only natural. They believed their way was the only way. But in my opinion, slavishly bowing to any vengeful, cruel dictator is the epitome of a worthless and wasted life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Well... what my life's purpose is depends on your point of view. From one point of view, I was born to heal the emotional wounds of a deeply damaged woman. I failed at that purpose, incidentally. From another point of view, I was born as a vehicle for my DNA to use to replicate. I failed at that purpose as well. If you ask me, I have no fucking clue. I'm just here, that's all I know, and it wasn't by my own will that I came into existence. Why does life have to have a "purpose", anyway? Purpose for what? For whom? Why does it have to have a meaning? That's what I don't get about that whole Xian claim of meaning, anyway. I don't know, maybe some people just can't cope with the idea that they just exist and there isn't really any reason for it, other than that their parents were successful at fucking and having a kid. I sometimes wonder what to do with myself and my life, but the cosmic meaninglessness of my life doesn't really bother me. The Xian idea of "purpose" just turns us all into tools anyway. If the purpose of a Xian's life is to serve his God, then he's basically no more than a hammer or a fork or any other tool, and he doesn't really have any meaning or purpose anyway - the great cosmic Purpose he's serving is God's, and is still a total mystery. Maybe a Xian is satisfied to be a tool. I'd rather be a human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 So, I was hoping to get some opinions, because as I see it, there is a natural conflict between mankind's natural hedonistic, selfish nature, and the providence of making society/Earth a better place for future generations. Opinions, please? I personally have to take exception to your basic premise. I personally do not believe in a "human nature", and I certainly don't believe that humans are innately hedonistic or selfish. If we believe that evolution is about survival and improvement of the species then surely our "nature" would be to try to improve ourselves and our surroundings to better support our offspring and future offspring. As for the purpose of my life, well certainly my life is about what I choose. There is no map of what my purpose should be. I consider my purpose to leave the world just a little bit better than I found it. In as much as I can influence the state of the world. My purpose is also to help raise the next generation to be kind, thinking, giving humans. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalhh Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 As an agnostic, there is still (in my mind, the miniscule possibility) anyway of an after life- but I'm not going to waste my life in fear. What a WASTE of a life that would be! One of many reasons I disagree with Pascal is that they believe they 'have nothing to lose' from believeing. They are wrong not just (as many people on this forum mention) in the context that if another religion turns out to be true- they are fucked; but also in the sense that if they are wrong they'll have wasted their entire lives. Their ONLY lives in the process. There is a cost. It's called LIVING. My purpose at the moment is to get through University (Education will take up my life for at least another 1.5 years if not 2.5, depending on whether I get/want to continue on for a Master's). I want to get a 2:1 at least in my Biology degree. After that, I want to get involved in sustainable conservation, I don't mind whether home or abroad (I'd prefer both, like most people would probably, but if I have to choose, I have to choose). I want to make a difference in the world. Since shaking off christianity I've found that this life can hold more meaning, especially if you believe it's probably the only one you've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 So, if I return to the fold, my purpose in life is superior to all other human beings' purpose? We are all different, and to suggest that religiously motivated "purpose" is superior to everyone else's is ignorant and perhaps arrogant. Back in the day, I was involved in a study of The Purpose Driven Life that lasted for MONTHS. Your words sum up what I began to see within the first couple of weeks. What a huge turn off to sit there and listen to people go on and on about how they were chosen and anointed and that God's plan for them was going to shake the foundations of the earth. Yep. Ignorant and arrogant. You nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Do we have to have a "purpose" in order for our lives to have meaning? I don't think so. It has always rubbed me the wrong way (even when I was Christian) to be told I needed to set goals for myself. The only goal I've ever had was simply to be as happy as possible in the here and now. Some days I succeed, and some days I don't. Maybe that doesn't make my life meaningful to some people. So I say screw them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultifariousBirdLady Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 So, if I return to the fold, my purpose in life is superior to all other human beings' purpose? Indeed. What I had been told in youth group and an evangelical campus group is that God has a plan for your life, and that plan includes being a Christian. So if you're not a Christian, then by default, you're not following the plan. I remember agonizing over what God wanted me to do at various stages, and worrying that following my own desires would mess up God's plan for me. But I never got any clear answers about what I should or shouldn't do, other than of course simply remaining a Christian. Incidentally, after leaving Christianity this was actually very difficult for me. I felt like the bottom had dropped out and I didn't know what to do next. My identity as a Christian was gone, and I had nothing at the time to fill that void. After I discovered what belief system fit me best, that helped some, but it took a real breakthrough for me to realize that perhaps our purpose in life is to choose our own purpose. Realizing that made a tremendous difference. Basically, a Christian believes purpose is found in being a Christian. I think purpose is individually found. What gives my life meaning won't necessarily be what others find meaningful. We are all different, and to suggest that religiously motivated "purpose" is superior to everyone else's is ignorant and perhaps arrogant. I definitely agree with that. Both ignorant and arrogant. Christians believe the only purpose in life is to cow-tow to an invisible, imaginary deity who will dole out everlasting retributive horror on everyone who simply doesn't believe HE exists. I'm sure the members of Hitler's SS believed similarly. They thought they were ushering in a superior world and that forcing compliance on those who disagreed is was only natural. They believed their way was the only way. But in my opinion, slavishly bowing to any vengeful, cruel dictator is the epitome of a worthless and wasted life. Absolutely. Learning about "cults" (authoritarian/totalist groups) helped me to really understand what Christianity was doing. The guilt and fear tactics and all the business about you doing "God's purpose" and fitting into "God's plan" really do amount to the same thing. And although Christians today tend not to kill people who disagree with them, many of them definitely don't have a problem with dismissing unbelievers' "ungodly" wishes or philosophies as "spiritually blind" without a second thought. They don't extend to unbelievers the same consideration they demand for themselves, because, just as other cults do, they think their views matter and other views simply don't. ............ With respect to a personal life purpose, though... some people do find writing a "vision statement" or something along those lines to be helpful. Not everybody, but some do. So for those who do, and who are not sure what to choose for themselves, this exercise may help. It sounds very intriguing but I just found it two days ago and haven't tried it yet. It looks useful to me because it because it asks you to write until something really strikes a chord within you, instead of trying to externally discern or impose upon you (from "on high") some kind of "plan for your life." http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/01/h...out-20-minutes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Do we have to have a "purpose" in order for our lives to have meaning? I don't think so. It has always rubbed me the wrong way (even when I was Christian) to be told I needed to set goals for myself. The only goal I've ever had was simply to be as happy as possible in the here and now. Some days I succeed, and some days I don't. Maybe that doesn't make my life meaningful to some people. So I say screw them! At last! someone whose goal in life is the same as mine--just to enjoy each day as it comes. I'd begun to wonder if I'm just weird, or maybe it's because so much of my life wasn't enjoyable, but I've always been under the impression that humans have the right to enjoy life, to feel fundamentally happy. I don't like questions like: If you had all the money in the world to do with exactly as you wish, what would you change? The reason I don't like them is that they don't allow for the person who is happy with the world the way it is. They imply that being satisfied with the world they way it is, is somehow flawed or evil. Yet what can I do to change it? Now I know what I would do if I had all the money in the world at my disposal. I'd hire somebody to feed and nurse and look after (provide all the basic necessities of life) all who needed feeding and nursing and looking after. And I'd go on living exactly the way I'm living now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 So, if I return to the fold, my purpose in life is superior to all other human beings' purpose? We are all different, and to suggest that religiously motivated "purpose" is superior to everyone else's is ignorant and perhaps arrogant. Back in the day, I was involved in a study of The Purpose Driven Life that lasted for MONTHS. Your words sum up what I began to see within the first couple of weeks. What a huge turn off to sit there and listen to people go on and on about how they were chosen and anointed and that God's plan for them was going to shake the foundations of the earth. Yep. Ignorant and arrogant. You nailed it. They should issue some kind of DSMV criteria to diagnose this kind of behavior as psychotic. Because that's what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 What a huge turn off to sit there and listen to people go on and on about how they were chosen and anointed and that God's plan for them was going to shake the foundations of the earth. Eww...that brings up too many embarassing memories. At one point I believed that God was making me into a prophet like Elijah. Delusional to say the least. Of course, it didn't help that there were always people praying and prophesying over me that "great things" were going to happen and such other crap. When reality finally crashed into my life it was certainly a necessary wake-up-call. As for purpose now...whatever the hell I want life to be. I'll give it my own damn purpose, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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