Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 If we lived in a totally random universe, with no purpose, guiding force, or hocus pocus feel good woo-woo, it would appear exactly as it does now. Anyone who has dribbled his drink, spilled food, backed over his kid's bike, or misplaced his glasses knows that there are accidents. To assign meaning to every innocuous act and coincidence is a feel good philosophy with no evidence to indicate, much less prove, it's true. In other words, it is like any religion. If it makes you feel better that so-and-so died for a good reason rather than just being another accident statistic, you'll have to take that idea on faith and faith alone because there is no basis for it in observable fact or logic. - Chris My insanity kickin in This should be fun!!!!!!!!!! Good topic starter Chris. You all give me a bit, I be back not now, ya hear. I started a new topic spun off this last topic. Chris stated the above and I will attempt to fill the unfillable with my insanity completely uncensored. Give your thoughts and opinions on the matter. To catch up to speed. The subject diverted toward freewill, and its result into our being as we know it. Biblically, God said we have freewill, the ablility to choose our every want and need. Make choices and decisions without the authority of God. Our own freewill. In that the idea of an unaccidental world created and instituted already by our present, past, and the knowledge of the unimaginable number of branches into the future. Unseen by the human eye are more choices than our mind could have ever comprehended worldwide. These choices being the entire catalyst behind every accident in which we see an accident, yet the God of all would see as destined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I still want to know which rebellion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 What about Pharaoh, did he have a "free will" when God hardened his heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Ummm...chapter and verse where God says we have freewill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprus Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Wow! It just looks to me like you're trying to add a caveat, e.g. free will, where none is justified. Why is it that people can't accept the process of living as just that? Why is it that some have to insert a spiritual element into it? I don't look at life in that way, a series of accidents, etc. I just live it. That's what I do. If I make good choices, then usually, things will do allright. If I make bad choices, then there is a crock of shit to deal with. Despite my choices, sometimes, there is still shit to deal with. Ergo, life is sometimes a crock of shit, despite my best efforts. Does that bother you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 If a person is voting at the election and someone is standing next to him with a gun to the voters head. The gun-man demands that the voter picks one specific candidate. The voter have the free will to either disobey and die, or obey and live. Is that gun-man a good person? And does the voter have a free choice to vote for the other candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I'm sure by now that everyone has realized that this OP is troll, first class. Well spoken, literate, but working ever closer to the SOS of every xtian. He's thus far posted numerous times today, all of them a thinly veiled (if at all) apologist view. And why don't these messengers of gawd provide any informaton. Everything in the profile is unknown. Hey, god guy, do you really exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I still want to know which rebellion? Rebellion of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 What about Pharaoh, did he have a "free will" when God hardened his heart? Thats a good point. Looking at that, I would say that maybe God was displaying what His behind the scene action was in this obviously divine intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Not much free will in the garden of eden with the talking snake, man was setup by god to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Ummm...chapter and verse where God says we have freewill? No direct quote. God said to not do something, as they were physically with Him, and they did it anyway. Wouldnt that constitute freewill in creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Wow! It just looks to me like you're trying to add a caveat, e.g. free will, where none is justified. Why is it that people can't accept the process of living as just that? Why is it that some have to insert a spiritual element into it? I don't look at life in that way, a series of accidents, etc. I just live it. That's what I do. If I make good choices, then usually, things will do allright. If I make bad choices, then there is a crock of shit to deal with. Despite my choices, sometimes, there is still shit to deal with. Ergo, life is sometimes a crock of shit, despite my best efforts. Does that bother you? No. Thanks for the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 If a person is voting at the election and someone is standing next to him with a gun to the voters head. The gun-man demands that the voter picks one specific candidate. The voter have the free will to either disobey and die, or obey and live. Is that gun-man a good person? And does the voter have a free choice to vote for the other candidate? Well. Spiritually, greater is the one who caused the gun man to sin, right?. And no, the man voting had no choice in the manner, in my thoughts; because of the freewilled choice of another man in charge of the gunman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I'm sure by now that everyone has realized that this OP is troll, first class. Well spoken, literate, but working ever closer to the SOS of every xtian. He's thus far posted numerous times today, all of them a thinly veiled (if at all) apologist view.And why don't these messengers of gawd provide any informaton. Everything in the profile is unknown. Hey, god guy, do you really exist? Troll? Whats your comment about the topic? Just trolls, right, thats what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I don't know if we each have a destiny, or if we're all just floatin' around accidental-like on a breeze. But I, I think maybe it's both, maybe both happening at the same time. –Forrest Gump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Not much free will in the garden of eden with the talking snake, man was setup by god to fail. They had a choice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I don't know if we each have a destiny, or if we're all just floatin' around accidental-like on a breeze. But I, I think maybe it's both, maybe both happening at the same time. –Forrest Gump Gotta love Gump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 What choice? They were ignorant toddlers in a magic garden and god killed them for making their first mistake--he did not warn them about the talking snake. god made the talking snake so why wouldn't someone trust a talking snake that basically said it was ok to eat of the forbidden tree? the kids were placed in the garden to fail. god knew they would fail and gave them no way out. or, god doesn't understand jack shit about his own creation and throws a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 If a person is voting at the election and someone is standing next to him with a gun to the voters head. The gun-man demands that the voter picks one specific candidate. The voter have the free will to either disobey and die, or obey and live. Is that gun-man a good person? And does the voter have a free choice to vote for the other candidate? Well. Spiritually, greater is the one who caused the gun man to sin, right?. And no, the man voting had no choice in the manner, in my thoughts; because of the freewilled choice of another man in charge of the gunman So if God threatens with Hell for not choosing to believe or turn to him, isn't that the same as putting a gun to someone's head and demand they do something? In my thought experiment, the gun-man was God, and the voter is the human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 What choice? They were ignorant toddlers in a magic garden and god killed them for making their first mistake--he did not warn them about the talking snake. god made the talking snake so why wouldn't someone trust a talking snake that basically said it was ok to eat of the forbidden tree? the kids were placed in the garden to fail. god knew they would fail and gave them no way out. or, god doesn't understand jack shit about his own creation and throws a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way. These were exactly my thoughts just now. God created everything good, so they *beleived* anything from God should be taken at face value. No sin there, in fact it was an act of faith! This whole literal interpretation of the Gensis story is nonsence. Acorn, I thought you said you weren't a literalist? What the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 What choice? They were ignorant toddlers in a magic garden and god killed them for making their first mistake--he did not warn them about the talking snake. god made the talking snake so why wouldn't someone trust a talking snake that basically said it was ok to eat of the forbidden tree? the kids were placed in the garden to fail. god knew they would fail and gave them no way out. or, god doesn't understand jack shit about his own creation and throws a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way. Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down and said He would never do that again. In part, as to, I moved on from that thought of insanity, still believed and looked for understanding. Got little, but some. Isaiah, God says who told you to give me these offerings. Weird, huh. Makes you think, or me, that maybe the whole Genesis story was fictional. Then, I say wait. Christ said as to the question of marriage, it was written, He made them male and female. So, its like a big puzzle of words and sayings that need a deciphering code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 It was God's plan for A&E to fail the test, so they were in obedience to God's will, not in sin. I've heard some argue that it wasn't the act of A&E that was the first "sin", but the first "sin" was really presented in the story of Cain and Abel. That A&E were disobedient wasn't a sin, but just a breach of "contract" between God and man (and planned), but that wasn't an act of sin in itself. The story rather portray that it's the ability of knowing, thinking, reason, logic, intellect... all of that is what caused the "quantum" leap of humans from being just an amoral animal to the moral agent, and not until then the concept of "sin" existed. So the act brought the concept of sin into existence, but the act wasn't The Sin. It was the door the opener to give the ability to sin, or like some call it "sinful nature." Like the Big Bang isn't a planet or a star, but it was part of causing it. It's just slight conceptual differences and completely inconsequential anyhow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 What choice? They were ignorant toddlers in a magic garden and god killed them for making their first mistake--he did not warn them about the talking snake. god made the talking snake so why wouldn't someone trust a talking snake that basically said it was ok to eat of the forbidden tree? the kids were placed in the garden to fail. god knew they would fail and gave them no way out. or, god doesn't understand jack shit about his own creation and throws a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way. Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down and said He would never do that again. In part, as to, I moved on from that thought of insanity, still believed and looked for understanding. Got little, but some. Isaiah, God says who told you to give me these offerings. Weird, huh. Makes you think, or me, that maybe the whole Genesis story was fictional. Then, I say wait. Christ said as to the question of marriage, it was written, He made them male and female. So, its like a big puzzle of words and sayings that need a deciphering code. Ok, now I see. You're not sure what to make of it. If I may make a suggestion? You're seeing it can't be literal, yet you still are trying to make it fit an overall literal belief about it. You need to step way above it and look at it apart from any literal thinking at all. It's no hidden message, it's just people who wrote it with the understandings they had at the time. No magic creation. Doesn't necessarily make it *crap*, anymore than any other work of antiquity is *crap*. What's crap, is literalist thinking. P.S. I don't call mythology fictional. Mythology is symbolic expression, and whether the characters and events were real, is beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 What choice? They were ignorant toddlers in a magic garden and god killed them for making their first mistake--he did not warn them about the talking snake. god made the talking snake so why wouldn't someone trust a talking snake that basically said it was ok to eat of the forbidden tree? the kids were placed in the garden to fail. god knew they would fail and gave them no way out. or, god doesn't understand jack shit about his own creation and throws a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way. Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down and said He would never do that again. In part, as to, I moved on from that thought of insanity, still believed and looked for understanding. Got little, but some. Isaiah, God says who told you to give me these offerings. Weird, huh. Makes you think, or me, that maybe the whole Genesis story was fictional. Then, I say wait. Christ said as to the question of marriage, it was written, He made them male and female. So, its like a big puzzle of words and sayings that need a deciphering code. If god were all powerful, he could have changed his mind and reversed the curse against us, but instead he uses one excuse after the other as to why mankind has to be redeemed when it was HIS fault in the first place. god is not all powerful if he cannot make things right on his own behalf. Hell, he can't even remember not to kill man with another flood--that is why he posted a rainbow in the sky like some friggin sticky note to himself not to drown everyone again. god has old-age dementia. god is senile. The genesis thing is a phoney story which led to the phoney story about jesus which is a direct response to the phoney story about the garden of eden. biblical lies begat more biblical lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down and said He would never do that again. In part, as to, I moved on from that thought of insanity, still believed and looked for understanding. Got little, but some. Isaiah, God says who told you to give me these offerings. Weird, huh. Makes you think, or me, that maybe the whole Genesis story was fictional. "Maybe"? No... reeeeeeeally... Imagine a million species of animals. Two of each at least. That would require some hundred football stadiums of food to survive for 9 months. And would poop a Chernobyl disaster once a month... eh.. yeah... that could be true... And not to talk about a rain fall so heavy that it would rise a several inches a second. So heavy raindrops like getting a trucks dropped on your head, for 40 days. Hmm... that gopher wood was pretty darn good. Maybe it was some ancient carbonfiber producing plant? If we could find it again, we'd could create tornado/hurricane/earthquake resistant buildings. And not to forget the extreme force and friction from the rain, that would pretty much boil the skin of every living creature. Those things aside, how come the Nephilims survived when God wanted to punish humanity because of Nephilim's sins? Josuah meet the sons of Nephilim later on. How can that be, if they drowned??? Then, I say wait. Christ said as to the question of marriage, it was written, He made them male and female. So, its like a big puzzle of words and sayings that need a deciphering code. Except Jesus. He had a cloned or supernatural Y-Chromosome, so he wasn't purely male. He was ghost-male, gmale (gmail)? Have you ever thought about that? Where did Jesus' Y-Chromosome come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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