Is It Possible? An Unaccidental Life

[Ouroboros]

Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down

And how could he regret what he did, since he knew already (determinism, remember) what he would do, and what would happen? It's like God is a supernatural guy that knows everything, and some days he's just like a human that doesn't know what he's doing or why he did it, or what comes next...

[Guest Acorn]

If a person is voting at the election and someone is standing next to him with a gun to the voters head. The gun-man demands that the voter picks one specific candidate. The voter have the free will to either disobey and die, or obey and live. Is that gun-man a good person? And does the voter have a free choice to vote for the other candidate?

 

Well. Spiritually, greater is the one who caused the gun man to sin, right?. And no, the man voting had no choice in the manner, in my thoughts; because of the freewilled choice of another man in charge of the gunman

So if God threatens with Hell for not choosing to believe or turn to him, isn't that the same as putting a gun to someone's head and demand they do something? In my thought experiment, the gun-man was God, and the voter is the human.

 

No. God layed out two places Bbilically, based on our choices. No gunman.

[Guest Acorn]

Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down and said He would never do that again. In part, as to, I moved on from that thought of insanity, still believed and looked for understanding. Got little, but some. Isaiah, God says who told you to give me these offerings. Weird, huh. Makes you think, or me, that maybe the whole Genesis story was fictional.

"Maybe"? No... reeeeeeeally...

 

Imagine a million species of animals. Two of each at least. That would require some hundred football stadiums of food to survive for 9 months. And would poop a Chernobyl disaster once a month... eh.. yeah... that could be true... And not to talk about a rain fall so heavy that it would rise a several inches a second. So heavy raindrops like getting a trucks dropped on your head, for 40 days. Hmm... that gopher wood was pretty darn good. Maybe it was some ancient carbonfiber producing plant? If we could find it again, we'd could create tornado/hurricane/earthquake resistant buildings. And not to forget the extreme force and friction from the rain, that would pretty much boil the skin of every living creature.

 

Those things aside, how come the Nephilims survived when God wanted to punish humanity because of Nephilim's sins? Josuah meet the sons of Nephilim later on. How can that be, if they drowned???

 

 

Then, I say wait. Christ said as to the question of marriage, it was written, He made them male and female. So, its like a big puzzle of words and sayings that need a deciphering code.

Except Jesus. He had a cloned or supernatural Y-Chromosome, so he wasn't purely male. He was ghost-male, gmale (gmail)?

 

Have you ever thought about that? Where did Jesus' Y-Chromosome come from?

 

Maybe those Nephilim's where their better half.

 

Dunno bout that Chromosome thing.

[Guest Acorn]

Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down

And how could he regret what he did, since he knew already (determinism, remember) what he would do, and what would happen? It's like God is a supernatural guy that knows everything, and some days he's just like a human that doesn't know what he's doing or why he did it, or what comes next...

 

Thats the same question I had. Thats why I pointed out that Isaiah writting. Sometimes things just dont make sense.

[Guest Acorn]

If god were all powerful, he could have changed his mind and reversed the curse against us, but instead he uses one excuse after the other as to why mankind has to be redeemed when it was HIS fault in the first place. god is not all powerful if he cannot make things right on his own behalf. Hell, he can't even remember not to kill man with another flood--that is why he posted a rainbow in the sky like some friggin sticky note to himself not to drown everyone again. god has old-age dementia. god is senile.

 

The genesis thing is a phoney story which led to the phoney story about jesus which is a direct response to the phoney story about the garden of eden. biblical lies begat more biblical lies.

 

Or. Maybe God saw it all, even the good. It also says that the world was corrupt. So. God looking here and there saw the good and the bad. See, this is a good example. The unimaginable amount of thoughts, choices, decisions, actions, second thoughts going through peoples mind.

 

We cant understand that fully. Yet, I think of it like a statistic. As, so many smokers die every second, etc. God's is so many bad\good choices, followed through, not followed through, every second. State of minds.

 

Dont under estimate human beings. Hitler is a good example of that.

[Guest Acorn]

Ok. I agree in part Heretic. In part, thinking of also when God said He regreting creating us, and caused the flood, then calmed down

And how could he regret what he did, since he knew already (determinism, remember) what he would do, and what would happen? It's like God is a supernatural guy that knows everything, and some days he's just like a human that doesn't know what he's doing or why he did it, or what comes next...

 

Well. He might have felt that way since Adam/Eve. Intervined, saw some good. Then it turned bad again, by their choices.

[Guest Acorn]

It was God's plan for A&E to fail the test, so they were in obedience to God's will, not in sin.

 

I've heard some argue that it wasn't the act of A&E that was the first "sin", but the first "sin" was really presented in the story of Cain and Abel. That A&E were disobedient wasn't a sin, but just a breach of "contract" between God and man (and planned), but that wasn't an act of sin in itself. The story rather portray that it's the ability of knowing, thinking, reason, logic, intellect... all of that is what caused the "quantum" leap of humans from being just an amoral animal to the moral agent, and not until then the concept of "sin" existed. So the act brought the concept of sin into existence, but the act wasn't The Sin. It was the door the opener to give the ability to sin, or like some call it "sinful nature." Like the Big Bang isn't a planet or a star, but it was part of causing it. It's just slight conceptual differences and completely inconsequential anyhow...

 

I agree. After Cain, God said it lies waitng at your door

[Guest Acorn]

Ok, now I see. You're not sure what to make of it. If I may make a suggestion? You're seeing it can't be literal, yet you still are trying to make it fit an overall literal belief about it. You need to step way above it and look at it apart from any literal thinking at all. It's no hidden message, it's just people who wrote it with the understandings they had at the time. No magic creation. Doesn't necessarily make it *crap*, anymore than any other work of antiquity is *crap*. What's crap, is literalist thinking.

 

P.S. I don't call mythology fictional. Mythology is symbolic expression, and whether the characters and events were real, is beside the point.

 

Agreed. I still believe in God, and the Bible though. So. I guess, insanity is all thats left.

[Ouroboros]

No. God layed out two places Bbilically, based on our choices. No gunman.

It's a choice under threat. Isn't Hell a place to fear, and isn't it the result (penalty) for making the wrong choice? If a kid is doing something wrong to their parents, would they poor gasoline over him, put him on fire, and say it was his own choice and it's for his own good, because they love him so much? If they threaten to do it, before the wrongdoing, isn't it a threat rather than a "gift" by his own choice? The line between these things are very fine.

 

And secondly, wouldn't Hell be more effective if God would take everyone to visit it first, before they go on with the journey of life? How can an eternal punishment be justified, for a decision made on very vague and incomplete pieces of information? It's like I give you two boxes, one blue and one green, and one of them contains a dangerous spider and the other one some really good candy. I ask you to stick your hand in one of them, and I won't tell you which one has what, and I will also tell you that it will be your own fault to making the wrong choice.

 

In essence, if Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism or any other non-Christian religion with a concept of some eternal punishment after death, happens to be the right religion, then you have made the wrong choice and deserve eternal punishment together with us all. So how do you know that your Hell is the True Hell, and not someone else's is the true one?

[Ouroboros]

Maybe those Nephilim's where their better half.

Probably true. Or maybe they were on the other boats from the other flood stories!

 

Dunno bout that Chromosome thing.

Too bad. I still wonder...

 

Oh, and here's another question, could Jesus' body produce C-vitamins?

[Ouroboros]

Thats the same question I had. Thats why I pointed out that Isaiah writting. Sometimes things just dont make sense.

Oh, sorry. My bad.

 

The Bible doesn't make sense. That's the only fact that we know is true for sure.

[Guest Acorn]

What choice? They were ignorant toddlers in a magic garden and god killed them for making their first mistake--he did not warn them about the talking snake. god made the talking snake so why wouldn't someone trust a talking snake that basically said it was ok to eat of the forbidden tree? the kids were placed in the garden to fail. god knew they would fail and gave them no way out. or, god doesn't understand jack shit about his own creation and throws a tantrum everytime he doesn't get his way.

These were exactly my thoughts just now. God created everything good, so they *beleived* anything from God should be taken at face value. No sin there, in fact it was an act of faith!

 

This whole literal interpretation of the Gensis story is nonsence. Acorn, I thought you said you weren't a literalist? What the story?

 

Hey. Dont lose hope in my thought yet. Maybe God made people. Flat out. Then knew He couldnt be here right beside us because of how he made people. So. Let events happen, and let people write about it, and tryed to straighten the peoples way, with Christ.

[Ouroboros]

Well. He might have felt that way since Adam/Eve. Intervined, saw some good. Then it turned bad again, by their choices.

The problem is how he could regret something at all. If he knew beforehand, from eternity, because he was omniscient, that these events would go about, then how can he regret it after it happens? He knew it would already!

[Guest Acorn]

Maybe those Nephilim's where their better half.

Probably true. Or maybe they were on the other boats from the other flood stories!

 

Dunno bout that Chromosome thing.

Too bad. I still wonder...

 

Oh, and here's another question, could Jesus' body produce C-vitamins?

 

Vitamin C. Explain.

[Ouroboros]

Hey. Dont lose hope in my thought yet. Maybe God made people. Flat out. Then knew He couldnt be here right beside us because of how he made people. So. Let events happen, and let people write about it, and tryed to straighten the peoples way, with Christ.

Or maybe we are the shards of God, and the "holy" writings is our interpretations of how we understand ourself?

[Guest Acorn]

Well. He might have felt that way since Adam/Eve. Intervined, saw some good. Then it turned bad again, by their choices.

The problem is how he could regret something at all. If he knew beforehand, from eternity, because he was omniscient, that these events would go about, then how can he regret it after it happens? He knew it would already!

 

 

I dont think He did in that context. For that matter, if He regretted it why wouldnt He have just ended it.

[Ouroboros]

I dont think He did in that context. For that matter, if He regretted it why wouldnt He have just ended it.

Ah. So you're not too convinced that God is omniscience and know everything beforehand?

 

And you're right. If it was so bad that he regretted it, why the heck didn't he just destroy everything, and just start on a new Earth, with robot-humans instead? He wanted free will, well then, live with it. Humans do what humans want, and if that's so bad, then don't give them free will... Gosh... stupid God.

[Guest Acorn]

Hey. Dont lose hope in my thought yet. Maybe God made people. Flat out. Then knew He couldnt be here right beside us because of how he made people. So. Let events happen, and let people write about it, and tryed to straighten the peoples way, with Christ.

Or maybe we are the shards of God, and the "holy" writings is our interpretations of how we understand ourself?

 

Maybe. I think that the one thing that is absolute is this. Christ was a stumbling block.

[The-Captain]

So it seems we are getting drawn into the ever fun "God Rationalization Game", basically doing a damn sight better job at deciding what God is then the Bible writers did.

 

It almost feels like we are arguing whether Sherlock Holmes could have been a cross dressing cabaret singer when not engaged in sleuth work. What do we base these ideas and assertions on? Its just conjecture about an entity who doesn't exist.

 

Obviously Acorn does believe him to exist, if its not derailing or too far out of relation to the OP, I would like to know why he does.

[Antlerman]

Ok, now I see. You're not sure what to make of it. If I may make a suggestion? You're seeing it can't be literal, yet you still are trying to make it fit an overall literal belief about it. You need to step way above it and look at it apart from any literal thinking at all. It's no hidden message, it's just people who wrote it with the understandings they had at the time. No magic creation. Doesn't necessarily make it *crap*, anymore than any other work of antiquity is *crap*. What's crap, is literalist thinking.

 

P.S. I don't call mythology fictional. Mythology is symbolic expression, and whether the characters and events were real, is beside the point.

 

Agreed. I still believe in God, and the Bible though. So. I guess, insanity is all thats left.

You believe the Bible? Whose reading?

[Guest Acorn]

So it seems we are getting drawn into the ever fun "God Rationalization Game", basically doing a damn sight better job at deciding what God is then the Bible writers did.

 

It almost feels like we are arguing whether Sherlock Holmes was really a cross dressing cabaret singer when not engaged in sleuth work. Its just conjecture about an entity who doesn't exist.

 

Obviously Acorn does believe him to exist, if its not derailing or too far out of relation to the OP, I would like to know why he does.

 

Well. Ive crossed those lanes. The single gut thought is I just dont know that I know, to put it away. I think like this. No God. No conscience. So. Why those that dont believe in God just go buck wild. I conclude that I think its built inside of us, fear that is. Whether, to God, or jail. Fear of the unknown.

[Guest Acorn]

I dont think He did in that context. For that matter, if He regretted it why wouldnt He have just ended it.

Ah. So you're not too convinced that God is omniscience and know everything beforehand?

 

And you're right. If it was so bad that he regretted it, why the heck didn't he just destroy everything, and just start on a new Earth, with robot-humans instead? He wanted free will, well then, live with it. Humans do what humans want, and if that's so bad, then don't give them free will... Gosh... stupid God.

 

Did He ever say we wouldnt do bad? What I dont understand, I dont consider stupid. Just not understand fully.

[Guest Acorn]

Ok, now I see. You're not sure what to make of it. If I may make a suggestion? You're seeing it can't be literal, yet you still are trying to make it fit an overall literal belief about it. You need to step way above it and look at it apart from any literal thinking at all. It's no hidden message, it's just people who wrote it with the understandings they had at the time. No magic creation. Doesn't necessarily make it *crap*, anymore than any other work of antiquity is *crap*. What's crap, is literalist thinking.

 

P.S. I don't call mythology fictional. Mythology is symbolic expression, and whether the characters and events were real, is beside the point.

 

Agreed. I still believe in God, and the Bible though. So. I guess, insanity is all thats left.

You believe the Bible? Whose reading?

 

Yes I do. I believe it is a sparatic collaboration of stories geared toward the enlightment of God and teachings of those who committed their lives to God they speak of.

[Antlerman]

You believe the Bible? Whose reading?

 

Yes I do. I believe it is a sparatic collaboration of stories geared toward the enlightment of God and teachings of those who committed their lives to God they speak of.

Ok, but then you have a rainbow of readings of what the truth of those things are? How do you read it? In other words whose Bible are you believing in? Whose reading of it? You're speaking of certain doctrines which are read and interpreted, and not all agree with them. So I ask again, how is it possible to "believe in the Bible"? It doesn't say one thing.

[Guest Acorn]

You believe the Bible? Whose reading?

 

Yes I do. I believe it is a sparatic collaboration of stories geared toward the enlightment of God and teachings of those who committed their lives to God they speak of.

Ok, but then you have a rainbow of readings of what the truth of those things are? How do you read it? In other words whose Bible are you believing in? Whose reading of it? You're speaking of certain doctrines which are read and interpreted, and not all agree with them. So I ask again, how is it possible to "believe in the Bible"? It doesn't say one thing.

 

Honestly. I got four hard backs. NIV, KJV, NKJV, Message.; and software. I have read and compared all to each other, to make sense of different things. But the single most thing that helped me was realizing that the Ot was a different world than the gospels, the Gospels were a different world than the Acts to Revelation. Alot of Acts-revelation is taken way to serious in the church. Each letter points toward different problems in those churches. Though, I do look at Paul logic, I take with grain of salt and just focus on the Gospels.