Neon Genesis Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Well. Thats a whole other topic itself. I was saying how I felt in conjunction of what I thought, responding to a post. I will say though that half the crimes you see on tv, news, etc the people caught are the dumb ones. Alot crimes are commited and gotten away with. So. Crimes can be sensibily committed and gotten away with. If God didnt exist, then there wouldnt be immoral. Sodom and Gommarah, Biblically, would still be, or for that matter Noah land. Just because someone gets away with a crime doesn't mean it was any less nonsensical for them to commit the crime in the first place. If they were truly thinking sensibly, then they wouldn't have committed the crime to begin with because they would have used their common sense to figure out it's better in the long run not to do it. It's like driving a car and running a stop sign on purpose. Sure, you might get lucky and get away with it without getting a ticket or getting into a car wreck, but that still doesn't change the fact that you were stupid for running the stop sign to begin with. Or are you saying that it's ok to commit crimes as long as you don't get caught, since you think such people are sensible? And so why do some people actually stop at a stop sign? It's because they use their common sense to figure out that there's a very good reason for that stop sign being there in the first place and it's just plain stupid to take the risk of losing more than what they would gain in the long run if they do get into a jam. You also didn't answer my question, if our conscience was really built into us by God, why do some people commit sins anyway? Does God build conscience into some people but not build conscience into other people? And your last sentence makes no sense. First, you say that we can't have morality without God, then you turn around and say we can't have immorality without God. Please stop with the flip-flopping and stay consistent with your arguments, please? It would really save us a lot of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Acorn, regarding Biblical "authority", this is a good series of videos from a lecture by the NT Scholar Bart Erhman you should listen to. Like I said, it puts things into perspective. (Again, I disagree with anyone's conclusion that these things make the Bible *crap*. What it does is bring it into a more open, realistic view, as it were.) http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...mp;#entry338845 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I'd posit the book isn't 'crap', it's the way people treat it that is crappy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I'd posit the book isn't 'crap', it's the way people treat it that is crappy... Yeah, I strongly agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I'd posit the book isn't 'crap', it's the way people treat it that is crappy... Agreed. What's "false" about it is the belief that it's a god's direct revelation. Things certainly don't support that. Like I said elsewhere in here, mythology isn't about facts. Those details are incidental to the story really. The word "fact" applied to myth is ridiculous. The word "lie" applied to it is equally as absurd and irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Thus my inherent dislike of the works of C.S. Bloody I was catching the blood of Christ in the cup of a carpenter Lewis... one "True" myth... the whole point of myth is it's not factual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 I'd posit the book isn't 'crap', it's the way people treat it that is crappy... Agreed. What's "false" about it is the belief that it's a god's direct revelation. Things certainly don't support that. Like I said elsewhere in here, mythology isn't about facts. Those details are incidental to the story really. The word "fact" applied to myth is ridiculous. The word "lie" applied to it is equally as absurd and irrelevant. As for myself I wouldn't have said this..."What's "false" about it is the belief that it's a god's direct revelation. Things certainly don't support that." I wouldn't have said that lest I be drawn into a discussion about the nature of truth and God. In addition if I did feel this way I would have said "in my opinion". I agree with this strongly... "Like I said elsewhere in here, mythology isn't about facts. Those details are incidental to the story really. The word "fact" applied to myth is ridiculous. The word "lie" applied to it is equally as absurd and irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Agree with previous posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Agreed. What's "false" about it is the belief that it's a god's direct revelation. Things certainly don't support that. Like I said elsewhere in here, mythology isn't about facts. Those details are incidental to the story really. The word "fact" applied to myth is ridiculous. The word "lie" applied to it is equally as absurd and irrelevant. As for myself I wouldn't have said this..."What's "false" about it is the belief that it's a god's direct revelation. Things certainly don't support that." I wouldn't have said that lest I be drawn into a discussion about the nature of truth and God. Pray tell what's bad about that?? That's my candy stick! In addition if I did feel this way I would have said "in my opinion". oh... dismount that goat already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Pray tell what's bad about that?? That's my candy stick! I think you're good Antlerman. I do. I believe I know just enough philosophy to shabbily construct a foundation for natural science. And I know next to nothing about theology. So I tend to walk small a quickly through these subjects. I'm not aware of too many things I know what I know if you know what I mean Philosophy, is the talk on a cereal box Religion, is a smile on a dog I'm not aware of too many things i know what I know if you know what I mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Pray tell what's bad about that?? That's my candy stick! I think you're good Antlerman. I do. I believe I know just enough philosophy to shabbily construct a foundation for natural science. And I know next to nothing about theology. So I tend to walk small a quickly through these subjects. I'm not aware of too many things I know what I know if you know what I mean Philosophy, is the talk on a cereal box Religion, is a smile on a dog I'm not aware of too many things i know what I know if you know what I mean Dude, that's cool. I'm no formal philosopher myself. I do what I do. You do well as well. Don't sell yourself short. We're all products of our culture. Edie Brickell & The New Bohemians are part of what's programmed into us as well. Like I say, media. We all process everything. So... what is truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 So... what is truth? Truth is a sword, as we have all known for ages, right? We all beat our drums, and I have said this before, but I no longer look for truth per se. I seek understanding. So for me the better question might be, "What is understanding?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 So... what is truth? Truth is a sword, as we have all known for ages, right? We all beat our drums, and I have said this before, but I no longer look for truth per se. I seek understanding. So for me the better question might be, "What is understanding?" Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I almost responded to your post Legion, I just loved it, then realized really I had nothing to add so just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed it sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 If god were all powerful, he could have changed his mind and reversed the curse against us, but instead he uses one excuse after the other as to why mankind has to be redeemed when it was HIS fault in the first place. god is not all powerful if he cannot make things right on his own behalf. Hell, he can't even remember not to kill man with another flood--that is why he posted a rainbow in the sky like some friggin sticky note to himself not to drown everyone again. god has old-age dementia. god is senile. The genesis thing is a phoney story which led to the phoney story about jesus which is a direct response to the phoney story about the garden of eden. biblical lies begat more biblical lies. Or. Maybe God saw it all, even the good. It also says that the world was corrupt. So. God looking here and there saw the good and the bad. See, this is a good example. The unimaginable amount of thoughts, choices, decisions, actions, second thoughts going through peoples mind. We cant understand that fully. Yet, I think of it like a statistic. As, so many smokers die every second, etc. God's is so many bad\good choices, followed through, not followed through, every second. State of minds. Dont under estimate human beings. Hitler is a good example of that. Invoking Goodwin's on this one... Goodwin's Law, c. 1990 ".....mention of Hitler and/or Nazi=1" kFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 If a person is voting at the election and someone is standing next to him with a gun to the voters head. The gun-man demands that the voter picks one specific candidate. The voter have the free will to either disobey and die, or obey and live. Is that gun-man a good person? And does the voter have a free choice to vote for the other candidate? Well. Spiritually, greater is the one who caused the gun man to sin, right?. And no, the man voting had no choice in the manner, in my thoughts; because of the freewilled choice of another man in charge of the gunman So if God threatens with Hell for not choosing to believe or turn to him, isn't that the same as putting a gun to someone's head and demand they do something? In my thought experiment, the gun-man was God, and the voter is the human. No. God layed out two places Bbilically, based on our choices. No gunman. Right, and the Gunmen in the hypothetical situation laid out choices as well. Vote his way or die.. same as the god you worship. Do it the way the buybull says or face endless torment for your 'choice'. Hell is the gun to the head.... attempt to spin it, the god you follow has no different mindset then the gunman. Your life will be spared if you bend to his demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 If god were all powerful, he could have changed his mind and reversed the curse against us, but instead he uses one excuse after the other as to why mankind has to be redeemed when it was HIS fault in the first place. god is not all powerful if he cannot make things right on his own behalf. Hell, he can't even remember not to kill man with another flood--that is why he posted a rainbow in the sky like some friggin sticky note to himself not to drown everyone again. god has old-age dementia. god is senile. The genesis thing is a phoney story which led to the phoney story about jesus which is a direct response to the phoney story about the garden of eden. biblical lies begat more biblical lies. Or. Maybe God saw it all, even the good. It also says that the world was corrupt. So. God looking here and there saw the good and the bad. See, this is a good example. The unimaginable amount of thoughts, choices, decisions, actions, second thoughts going through peoples mind. We cant understand that fully. Yet, I think of it like a statistic. As, so many smokers die every second, etc. God's is so many bad\good choices, followed through, not followed through, every second. State of minds. Dont under estimate human beings. Hitler is a good example of that. Invoking Goodwin's on this one... Goodwin's Law, c. 1990 ".....mention of Hitler and/or Nazi=1" kFL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_discussion the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Right, and the Gunmen in the hypothetical situation laid out choices as well. Vote his way or die.. same as the god you worship. Do it the way the buybull says or face endless torment for your 'choice'. Hell is the gun to the head.... attempt to spin it, the god you follow has no different mindset then the gunman. Your life will be spared if you bend to his demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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