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Goodbye Jesus

It Was A Matter Of Freedom


Guest spoonface

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Guest spoonface

(was going to put this in the how long you've been out thread but realized it didn't belong there. Only seems to fit here. I hope it's in the right place...I just need to vent).

 

Well, I've stopped 'practicing' my faith for a year and a half now. What I believe is very uncertain. I'm now beginning to see religion and spiritual movements as a complex web of mind control. I believe religion serves its purpose to motivate people of all kinds of mentalities to be ethically responsible and other wise morally inclined, but religion can have its adverse effects such as causing otherwise 'sane' people to develop what most people consider lunacy, though I wouldn't call them lunatics because I've been one of those lunatics myself for reasons that were very rational to my thinking. In any case, I have been raised a Christian and was what they call born again in 2003. In 2006, I began to drift from being a hardcore, "live every moment in the Spirit" kind of Christian.

 

In 2007, I began picking up old loves and hobbies from my that I originally gave up in 2003 because I was taught that they were tools of the devil. I speak of gaming, anime, many books, TV, etc.

 

I never was held down by mainstream Christianity or by my local church. I originally converted and was a 'doomsday' Christian. I went through various sects such as Seventh Day Adventism, some form of uber orthodox Catholicism that claimed people had all these visions of Mary who often had to restrain Jesus from executing massive wrath on the deluded sinners. I then gave up all denominationalism and was again involved in an apocalyptic, charismatic belief. I felt very enlightened at the time and I was motivated to be self-sacrificing and disciplined which wasn't all bad at all. I was more ethically inclined than when I was "in the world" but I know that I was ultimately being motivated by fear more so than guilt even.

 

Even now, I still struggle with fear of an angry God who will condemn me ultimately for trying to be true to myself. Ive always wrestled with the image of a God who was on my side when I was being 'submissive' and the unpitying God when defied. At any rate, God was very real to me. I was prepared to give my life for my beliefs if, as rumors were, that orthodox Christianity would be outlawed in the United States in some years to come as it had in other countries years ago and even currently.

 

Anyways, the point is, all that time, I was lead to believe that my every thought and all of my emotions were sinful. I felt so overwhelmed with being sinful and trying harder only to find there was still more irrational BS that I had to do to be "sanctified" that I saw my efforts to be in vain and not worth pursuing anymore. The only reason I was trying to be good was to avoid a hell described by mainstream Christianity.

 

And that's another thing. Even though all the Christians I looked up to agreed the Bible was The Truth, I could not find one Christian group that could agree with the other. My pastor says that people who aren't Christian always base their beliefs on "I think" or "it seems to me" and says that the Christians have the Bible to be totally sure of what they believe. Well, even the Christians are basing their beliefs on "I think" and "it seems to me" because they can't agree on even the most basic matters of Christianity such as salvation. There is so much difference in views concerning what it means to be a "true Christian" and matters dealing with the end of the world that I find I can't rely on anyone who claims to be englightened.

 

Well, I realized early on as a Christian that I couldn't rely on any man for truth and that I just had to pray and read the Bible constantly and if I did anything else with my spare time, I was sinning and going to go to hell. I was a zombie it seemed but I still was making decisions that were rational in relative terms. I was so sure of hell and all that that it was perfectly rational to give up any sort of petty amusment that was only to gratify my carnal nature and devote myself to hours of study of the same book while feeling scared to open up any book that was not related to spirituality.

 

I've come to the point where I do not want to live a life selling my dreams of what I want to do with my life out of fear and guilt, but ultimately fear...primal fear...and I don't want to live a life contrained by rigid rules, moralization, narrow definitions, and the like. I'm sick of fearing the end of the world, fearing that I am 'reprobate,' fearing so-called visions and prophecies from so-called prophets that never come true, that contradict each other, and are said to be 'delayed' by the prayers of the 'saints.' I'm sick of losing my individuality to fit a certain mold that is suppossed to be Christ-like.

 

Plenty of faiths that totally contradict the other have followers who experience that sense of being enlightened, who have their lives changed to be better people, and who predict things that come true. I used to base my beliefs on claims about the Bible code and numerics, on fulfilled prophecies, on miracles, healings, that I only heard about. And what miracles I thought to have witnessed were nothing significant. The feeling of being close to God is not a feeling isolated to Christians. It is something experienced by anyone who has a strong faith in the existence of something that is not seen but seems to be there.

 

There is an almost infinite amount of proof for or against a set of beliefs. People can manipulate facts and experiences to justify their beliefs. That goes for hardcore religious folks and hardcore non-religious folks.

 

Irregardless of religion, I believe I am a bad person because I fuck up and am no longer ashamed to live for selfish pleasure or to say the word "fuck." I'm not afraid to consider that people of the same-sex can truly love each other in the way heterosexuals can. I'm not ashamed to dream dreams that are not 'spiritual' or solely to glorify God. I'm not ashamed to live a little and experience the world.

 

My ultimate desire is to be free. I will always be bound to the dictates of society and my parents and a father who I might have based my current view of God a little too much off of. Must I also have my every thought, emotion, word, and action be controlled by God at the threat of hell?

I used to believe I was not being motivated by hell, but all along I was. Such is the price to pay for being a highly imaginative, gullible individual such as myself.

 

I do not hate God or Christians or religious people and I don't want to change their beliefs because I understand why they believe what they do and I know how it hurts to be mocked by people who think it's okay to judge religious foks.

 

I don't have a set belief in any sort of god whether its the one of the Bible or some other god (though my natural inclination is to believe in the Judeo-Christian one). I don't claim to have the answers and I don't even want to have all the answers because that takes out the excitement of discovery. I just want to be free...even if it costs me...even if it costs my soul...even if the stereotypical hell that lacks a solid biblical basis is my reward for being so presumptions, stubborn, and daring for desiring freedom and authenticity...to be true to my identity and pursue my dreams!

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This is something that Buddha said.. "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it - even if I have said it - unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

 

To thine own self be true.

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Guest eejay

Hi Spoonface,

 

Many of us have faced similar fears so rest assured you are not alone. You may find some level of comfort here, and some resources to help you overcome this fear. When you come to realize that this fear was implanted in religion to trap you into staying in the flock, you will be on your way to finding that freedom you so desperately seek. The problem with the real strict fundamentalist' view is that if you happen to do anything outside of religion, you develop sort of a complex that you've done something terribly wrong. That in itself is so outrageous, but it creates a vicious circle where you divulge yourself further into religious study, because you are worried that god will frown on you.

 

I certainly hope that your time on this site will help ease your fears and give you a better understanding that the bible is contradictory in many ways, and can't be taken literally. Reading other peoples stories and their individual struggles is quite a learning experince in itself and sometimes quite emotional. So...hope you enjoy your searching here and eventually realize that in time you will heal and work out those issues. There should be no guilt in allowing yourself to enjoy the pleasure in life.

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Guest spoonface

Thank you all. This site is very liberating. It is wonderful to know there are people who have been there and done that.

 

I admit my original 'antimony' was a bit rushed.

 

I have come to a more conclusive account of my beliefs here that some other people might relate to, but honestly Dave's is extraordinary.

 

You guys are great.

 

I'm strongly encouraged by everyone else's words.

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This is something that Buddha said.. "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it - even if I have said it - unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

 

To thine own self be true.

 

The full comment is

 

"Trust in no man's words. Trust not in the words of scripture, the writings of old, the texts of "prophets." Do not be misled by those proficient in quoting scripture nor after reflection on mere opinion or theory. The purpose of man is not to waste one's life attempting to reach some imaginary heaven to be with some imaginary god.

Be happy to know that the world simply is, that man simply is."

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Thank you all. This site is very liberating. It is wonderful to know there are people who have been there and done that.

 

I admit my original 'antimony' was a bit rushed.

 

I have come to a more conclusive account of my beliefs here that some other people might relate to, but honestly Dave's is extraordinary.

 

You guys are great.

 

I'm strongly encouraged by everyone else's words.

 

Welcome Spoonface! Your Livespace antimony is astounding! It reminded me of when I was a teenager and how the youth pastors at my church pretty much demonized a lot of what I thought was ok. Rock music was bad, horror movies were bad, things with asian symbols like the ying/yang were bad. The rollercoaster of trying to be faithful and then backsliding as the southern baptists call it then feeling remorseful and then repenting etc is something I knew very well.

 

I wouldn't worry about the hell thing. While I still am still struggling with it, I have to think about it this way: If there's a God who created all hundred billion galaxies(or more) of the universe, such a being would be so absolutely transcendent, that it's not going to be annoyed if tiny creatures like us worship it or not, and isn't going to punish us for lack of belief or the "wrong belief".

 

Also glad to see another anime fan here. That's Koenma from Yu Yu Hakusho as your avatar if I'm not mistaken?

I've watched so much anime and read so much manga it's a wonder I don't trail speed lines when I run and don't exude giant sweatdrops when I'm embarrassed. What anime are your faves?

Again, welcome to the forums,

Tabula Rasa.

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Guest spoonface

Thanks Rasa (or Tabula, whichever preffered) as well as gramps and everyone else.

 

I've come to realize how vauge the Bible is about what hell is really and how poor translation assigns multiple but wholly different terms in the Hebrew and Greek language as 'hell.' In any case, I claimed I wasn't "serving God with all my heart and mind (despite being too irresponsible to deal with real life matters like school while I obsessed over 'spirituality') to escape hell, but whenever I had my major downs in my faith, it always came to the hell thing. What a load of crock. I now see that with my good intentions, I submitted blindly to whatever my sanctimonious leaders said God said to them, using some very dodgy scripture 'interpretations' that could only be understood by those filled with 'the spirit.' I claimed to seek the Bible for the answers but I was always dependent on some man for understanding, especially since 'fellowship' with the 'brethren' (who did not know I even existed because I only trusted 'online ministries' since I knew every local church I attended was preaching some sectarian, monotonous, watered-down gospel, bull shit. If there were no 'signs and wonders', 'prophecies, dreams, and visions,' or 'miracle healings,' than the assembly was, 'dead in the faith.'

 

Right.

 

Online ministires tend to be quite dangerous. I am not out to question the character or experiences of people who run online ministires. They claim to have witnessed and worked miracles, have had visions (I always wondered how someone knew they had a vision. Did they magically have thier consciousness transported to dream land while being awake or were they just having powerful imaginary images in their minds?), and claimed to have discovered some "hidden manna' from their interpretations of the Bible. They also make a lot of vague predictions about some immense revival, annointing, or judgment that will befall the world, starting with sin-laden America. They make date predictions and get 'confirmations' from other people who claim to have been shown something that relates to this grand vision. The thing was, these confirmations made no sense unless you truly were 'filled with the holy spirit.' They were the ones God chose to be in the know and mainstream Christianity was nothing more than the harlot riding on the beast's back.

 

I relied on the so called miracle testimonies as being evidence that God was the God of the Bible and that Christ was coming to judge the sinful world.

 

It's no wonder I was reduced to this ultra paranoid, sin-phobic, friendless individual from cramming my intellectual mind with these impossible to prove notions. I felt so inferior to my fellow 'brethren' because I never had a vision that was not a dream. I never had a miracle healing. I never heard God speak to me. I was too immature in my faith to be of any worth in 'the kingdom of God.'

 

Bull shit.

 

I'm GLAD I'm out of the fundy cult. I actually read the Bible today (I always open to Zepheniah as I subconsciously open the Bible to random spots.). I read it aloud in my dramatized voice from the Southern Baptist voice, to the villain voice, to the spooky voice (I never did mention that I have always wanted to be a voice-actress in some anime. Probably won't happen,but my drama teacher likes the way I read lines). It was really fun. The Bible has a lot of common sense truths and I can see why it gave me a good lesson on morals and being responsible, but reading too much into it can easily result in total paranoia, especially when you were taught to look at the Scriptures in so many literal and yet abstract ways (hidden meanings that those with the Spirit can only see). The Bible wouldn't bee so bad if I didn't have the notion that their was 'more meaning to it' than as to what it plainly said. But I was not filled with fear and paranoia when reading it. I could see why many people find it easy to believe it but I choose not to buy it anymore as being the Answer to life's every dilemma and Trial and Tribulation.

 

Ah...I went off on another damn tangent.

 

Anime...yes...well...I honestly Lurve Anime. I have seen 20+ animes despite having spent almost five years refusing to watch it out of 'conscience.' Some of the ones I really like are Tenchi Muyo, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Yugioh Season Zero (only found on the net), Gundam related anime, and some other things.

 

My absolute favorites are Yu Yu Hakusho (as you can see by smexy McSmexy Koenma in my avatar, though Hiei is by far my favorite in that anime despite being an evil demon...oh noes!!), .Hack//SIGN, and most recently ,Fullmetal Alchemist. I only like the latter two in their subbed format.

 

.Hack//SIGN is a bit boring for a lot of folks, but being a gamer since my very young childhood and being very much like Tsukasa (fav fictional character), the protagonist, I find a lot I can appreciate in this down-to-earth anime which deals with parental abuse, being trapped in unreality, and being manipulated by some being that closely resembles the female version of God that promises a place of happiness only to severely punish and cast you away after being defied. Oh and though this might be a spoiler, this anime has my favorite pairing ever which happens to be yurilicious.

 

The best anime I have ever seen is Fullmetal Alchemist. Gotta love Al and Ed. There are a lot of references to religion there and the brilliant story did a lot to help me come to grips with the fact I was being totally brainwashed by religious extremism. I recommend it to everyone and anyone.

 

And I love your temple dedicated to Sakura. I should have a day set aside for worship an anime character day...I can see polytheism coming my way...oh yes...

 

Nice Scirpture you have there. Felicidades in regards to the holy matrimony between Lord Sakura and Tomoyo.

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  • 2 weeks later...
And that's another thing. Even though all the Christians I looked up to agreed the Bible was The Truth, I could not find one Christian group that could agree with the other. My pastor says that people who aren't Christian always base their beliefs on "I think" or "it seems to me" and says that the Christians have the Bible to be totally sure of what they believe. Well, even the Christians are basing their beliefs on "I think" and "it seems to me" because they can't agree on even the most basic matters of Christianity such as salvation. There is so much difference in views concerning what it means to be a "true Christian" and matters dealing with the end of the world that I find I can't rely on anyone who claims to be englightened.

 

Well, I realized early on as a Christian that I couldn't rely on any man for truth and that I just had to pray and read the Bible constantly and if I did anything else with my spare time, I was sinning and going to go to hell. I was a zombie it seemed but I still was making decisions that were rational in relative terms. I was so sure of hell and all that that it was perfectly rational to give up any sort of petty amusment that was only to gratify my carnal nature and devote myself to hours of study of the same book while feeling scared to open up any book that was not related to spirituality.

 

I've come to the point where I do not want to live a life selling my dreams of what I want to do with my life out of fear and guilt, but ultimately fear...primal fear...and I don't want to live a life contrained by rigid rules, moralization, narrow definitions, and the like. I'm sick of fearing the end of the world, fearing that I am 'reprobate,' fearing so-called visions and prophecies from so-called prophets that never come true, that contradict each other, and are said to be 'delayed' by the prayers of the 'saints.' I'm sick of losing my individuality to fit a certain mold that is suppossed to be Christ-like.

 

These three paragraphs explain perfectly my problem with religion and specifically Christianity. There is so much emphasis on the Bible being the infallible word of God, and yet theologians in the church disagree on some of the most basic tenets. take Salvation for instance and the question of if you eternally secure in Christ? some say yes, others say no, others say it depends on if you keep obeying the book (which is a contradiction in of itself because we are told that we are all sinners and fall short of of God's glory). While one can easily argue that religion has had a positive impact on society, I am not one who argues otherwise, one can also easily see the damage that religion has done - the brainwashing, the fear and guilt, the lack of honesty about issues we struggle with, wars (crusades, inquisitions, conflicts over issues such as slavery and segregation form varying interpretations of the Bible etc). So the positive cancels out the negative. Christians would say, well at least if we are right about Christ, we go to heaven and you miss out, so you better give it a try, but this is a lame way of justifying the psychological damage that religion does to the human mind. It is the ultimate form of mind control, becuase if I can get you to believe that if you don't do what I say, you wil go to hell, I can get you to do practically anything.

 

But what really did it for me was that even though I respect and still believe in the person called Jesus, I rarely saw any of his compassion in grace in the churches that I was a memeber of. I saw grace only to the degree that I obeyed the endless rules and regulations. And worst of all, because I am a recovering sex addict, I could never have any peace and always felt like I was hell bound, even after all the praying, tithing, confessing, fasting, speaking in tongue, deliverance services etc that were all supposed to help me be free!!

 

Religion does more psychological damage than we could ever imagine.

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