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Goodbye Jesus

Are We Really That Different?


Guest Acorn

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If there was a tribe somewhere in a remote location still in existance, and dated back into early BC. Would you say that tribe is not real, or their ancestry, heritage?
Again, wtf, you just said in your previous post that you agreed with the person you quoted that we were not like a church, now you're turning around and contradicting yourself. Make up your god-damn mind already. And your question makes no fucking sense. Please try again and make yourself at least sound like you make sense next time, k thx.
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Goodbye Jesus
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Back to the OP -

 

Are we really that different?

 

YES! FUCKING YES! YES YES YES YES YES YES!

 

 

Neon - how do you do it? I just can't bring myself to argue with a soap dish.

 

- Chris

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So, whether it be me, or be someone else; thats something you might have to loosen a few screws about. You seem to get highly irratated at any format of religious talk, if it could even be thinly considered preaching.

You're damn right I'm pissed. Read some of the ex-timonies. I lost my childhood to fundy parents and loony tunes xtianity. There are many more with worse stories. Your bible is bs, jebus is a mythilogical figure, and your gawd hasn't bothered to check in, at least that I've seen, in several thousand years. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

BTW, you're lucky you caught me in a good mood this morning.

 

God Bless :god:

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Guest Acorn
If there was a tribe somewhere in a remote location still in existance, and dated back into early BC. Would you say that tribe is not real, or their ancestry, heritage?
Again, wtf, you just said in your previous post that you agreed with the person you quoted that we were not like a church, now you're turning around and contradicting yourself. Make up your god-damn mind already. And your question makes no fucking sense. Please try again and make yourself at least sound like you make sense next time, k thx.

 

 

Ok Neon Genesis. Take deep breathes. Breathe through your nose, out your mouth. I am giving into your continuous rambling about. PROVE THIS, PROVE THAT, WTF, NO MAKE NO SENSE, BLAH, BLAh, etc;

 

Got that?

 

I AM DIVERTING FROM MY OP. MODERATORS, I AM GOING TO DISCUSS THE "PROVE IT" TOPIC WITH NEON GENESIS". AS TO I CANT LOOK AT MY COMMENTS FOR HAVING TO SIFT DOWN THROUGH THE RAMBLING.

 

OK. Question. Very simple Neon Genesis.

 

If there was a tribe, civilization, settlement, group, etc, that is currently on this earth that has a very extensive and early beginning of ancestry, heritage, tradition; etc.

 

Observing and studying that group of people; Would you say that they are legitamate as a group; existant?

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Again, what does the existence of tribes have anything to do with whether or not we are one? Again, we have no dogma or "chief" that we must worship other than following general forum rules that pretty much all forums follow, hell, even webmaster Dave rarely ever posts here and the mods rarely ever ban people, so we are not a church, we are a meeting place for non-believers to exchange thoughts and ideas. I fail to see how this is anything like a church. To put it in easier terms, all churches are groups, but not all groups are churches. Just look at what the definitions of church and group is. Definition of church, "public worship of God or a religious service in such a building." Definition of group, "any collection or assemblage of persons or things" I fail to see how these words are similar. One requires the people meeting together to come together for a common goal. The other has no requirements of a common goal whatsoever. Since nobody here has a common goal as we have no dogma, which word do you think describes us better going with these definitions?

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Again, what does the existant of tribes have anything to do with whether or not we are one? Again, we have no dogma or "chief" that we must follow other than general forum rules that pretty much all forums follow, hell, even webmaster Dave rarely ever posts here, so we are not a church, we are a meeting place for non-believers to exchange thoughts and ideas. I fail to see how this is anything like a church. To put it in easier terms, all churches are groups, but not all groups are churches.

 

 

Are you going to answer my question, or just keep rambling?

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Are you actually going to pay attention to what I say or are you just going to keep bitching at us? Point being, tribes and message boards are two different things, we are not a church, your question makes no sense if you're trying to compare us to a tribe. I've explained this all a thousand times, and if you haven't figured it out by now, then I see no further reason to keep explaining it to you because it's obvious you never will.

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Guest Acorn
Are you actually going to pay attention to what I say or are you just going to keep bitching at us?

 

Waiting on your response

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Oh for fuck's sake, don't make me pull this car over you two! :rolleyes:

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Waiting on your response
Your question doesn't make sense because it makes the assumption that I claimed groups do not exist yet I never once claimed that, so why should I defend a position that I never claimed, and I explained it to you that churches and groups are not the same thing. And why must it be important for us to be the same as you, anyway? Is it because you can't understand people unless they're the same as you?
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Guest Acorn
Waiting on your response
Your question doesn't make sense because it makes the assumption that I claimed groups do not exist yet I never once claimed that, so why should I defend a position that I never claimed, and I explained it to you that churches and groups are not the same thing. And why must it be important for us to be the same as you, anyway? Is it because you can't understand people unless they're the same as you?

 

Chicken. Go on. Yes or no. Would this group, in history, be considered existant.

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Acorn if you don't mind, would you add a link to the parallel topic on the christian forum?

 

I actually have to correct my Op on that one, two people posted replys, last I checked. One asked what my topic had to do with Christian Theological ethics :eek: ; and the other said this was an international forum?? Not sure on what that was to imply. I havent responded.

 

LINK:

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=...amp;postcount=1

 

Thanks. What a lovely site.

 

Not sure what all the blessings, health, and reputation stuff is about.

 

What a cute signature that one guy has.

 

"A little, wretched, despicable creature; a worm, a mere nothing, and less than nothing; a vile insect that has risen up in contempt against the majesty of Heaven and earth...You have reason to wonder that you are not already in hell." ~ Jonathan Edwards

 

Actually Acorn, if your point in that post was to draw parallels between the story of Jonah and the current age of eschatology that Xianity assumes we are in I thought it was a good point.

 

Especially concerning the attitude of Jonah about the state. I don't get why the only sort of reply was a nitpick and an assumption of literalism. :shrug:

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Guest Acorn
Actually Acorn, if your point in that post was to draw parallels between the story of Jonah and the current age of eschatology that Xianity assumes we are in I thought it was a good point.

 

Especially concerning the attitude of Jonah about the state. I don't get why the only sort of reply was a nitpick and an assumption of literalism. :shrug:

 

Dunno. Sometimes God's ""people"" are too big for themselves. If God came a calling, they might not even look up.

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Guest Acorn
Waiting on your response
Your question doesn't make sense because it makes the assumption that I claimed groups do not exist yet I never once claimed that, so why should I defend a position that I never claimed, and I explained it to you that churches and groups are not the same thing. And why must it be important for us to be the same as you, anyway? Is it because you can't understand people unless they're the same as you?

 

Anyway there Neon Genesis. I statred another topic then it got slammed so, heres your freakin answer.

 

Judah was real. The Hebrews were real, and so are many other cultures that exist today, and have a heritage. So. I might cant prove that God is real, but the people that created Him in His book, and their culture is real. Israel.

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Chicken. Go on. Yes or no. Would this group, in history, be considered existant.
And I'm telling you, I CANNOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE YOUR QUESTION MAKES NO SENSE. You're asking me to think of a real situation that happened and asking me if this real situation is real, what the fuck? That would be like me asking you to think about the last time you ate a meal and asking you if your meal was real. You make no sense, and if this is some sort of word game to trap me in your arguments, I'm not falling for it. You're just like those Pharisees who would try to trap Jesus with their nonsensical questions. Furthermore, I NEVER SAID I DID NOT BELIEVE GROUPS WERE NON-EXISTENT. YOU ARE PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH, STOP IT. You were the one who said we were like a church, I pointed out to you that we were a group, not a church, and I pointed out to you that churches and groups are not the same thing. Stop being a hypocrite, please?
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Waiting on your response
Your question doesn't make sense because it makes the assumption that I claimed groups do not exist yet I never once claimed that, so why should I defend a position that I never claimed, and I explained it to you that churches and groups are not the same thing. And why must it be important for us to be the same as you, anyway? Is it because you can't understand people unless they're the same as you?

 

Anyway there Neon Genesis. I statred another topic then it got slammed so, heres your freakin answer.

 

Judah was real. The Hebrews were real, and so are many other cultures that exist today, and have a heritage. So. I might cant prove that God is real, but the people that created Him in His book, and their culture is real. Israel.

 

Was that ever in contention? What you just said is what many of us on this site will say. The bible is a progressive work of Sumerian myth in the early OT transitioning into the Hebrew ideas that become influenced by the Persians by the later OT books. Then the New Testament is the further development within the world of Hellenism and the other hodgepodge of philosophies during that time.

 

The people that wrote the bible were very real of course, and IMO the Bible serves as a good historical tool of analyzing some of the thoughts of the day.

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I agree, yet delusions; I am not delusional. Everyday I wake up with thoughts of the gaps and gray areas of the Bible. The one thing that has really grasped my mind, is why. Why is it that I have seen all I have seen, obtain the knowledge outside of the Bible, been through mental wars in trying to sift through history, documents, doctrine, etc. All outside God and the Bible. And still strongly feel that theres a God, and that he's still around. Maybe its what Ive been through, and gotten past in my life.

You haven't realized yet that there is a difference between "the anonymous deity we can't understand or grasp" and "the specific and very clearly, and contradictory God image that is created in the Bible."

 

It's not wrong to believe that there is some God out there.

 

The problem is that you trust the works of some authors, 2000 years ago, that they were honest, truthful, serious and gave you exact and real historical descriptions of some stories. What if you had found the story about the mermaid in there, or little red riding hood? Would that have changed the concept for you if God exists or not?

 

Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?

 

Lets start with the question if there is "a" God of some kind out there. Okay, lets say we stay agnostic and say it's possible, but we don't know.

 

How do we go from there to: a guy born from a virgin, with a different accounts of when that can't be harmonized, visited by astrologers, repeated some clever philosophical ideas that the stoics already had said some hundred years earlier, wearing sandals, etc etc... ? And the only reason why you "know" this is because some guys wrote it down, in the same way as many other fabricated miracles at that time. There are other books, with other authors, from the same time period, that also have miracles in them. Why don't you believe those???

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Anyway there Neon Genesis. I statred another topic then it got slammed so, heres your freakin answer.

 

Judah was real. The Hebrews were real, and so are many other cultures that exist today, and have a heritage. So. I might cant prove that God is real, but the people that created Him in His book, and their culture is real. Israel.

Just because the authors of the bible are real does not prove that the bible itself is real. That's like saying because the Muslims are real that proves Islam is true and Christianity is false, or that because JK Rowling is real, that proves Harry Potter is a real story, or because St. Nicholas is a real person, that proves there's a magical fat guy who travels around the world delivering presents, or that because George Washington is real, that proves he really chopped down a magical cherry tree. I am not asking for proof if the authors of the bible are real but proof that what they're claiming is real. There's a difference.
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Guest Acorn
Anyway there Neon Genesis. I statred another topic then it got slammed so, heres your freakin answer.

 

Judah was real. The Hebrews were real, and so are many other cultures that exist today, and have a heritage. So. I might cant prove that God is real, but the people that created Him in His book, and their culture is real. Israel.

Just because the authors of the bible are real does not prove that the bible itself is real. That's like saying because the Muslims are real that proves Islam is true and Christianity is false, or that because JK Rowling is real, that proves Harry Potter is a real story, or because St. Nicholas is a real person, that proves there's a magical fat guy who travels around the world delivering presents, or that because George Washington is real, that proves he really chopped down a magical cherry tree. I am not asking for proof if the authors of the bible are real but proof that what they're claiming is real. There's a difference.

 

I meant the heritage, ancestry, origion, histiroy of the Jews etc. in also there present state of civilization

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I agree, yet delusions; I am not delusional. Everyday I wake up with thoughts of the gaps and gray areas of the Bible. The one thing that has really grasped my mind, is why. Why is it that I have seen all I have seen, obtain the knowledge outside of the Bible, been through mental wars in trying to sift through history, documents, doctrine, etc. All outside God and the Bible. And still strongly feel that theres a God, and that he's still around. Maybe its what Ive been through, and gotten past in my life.

You haven't realized yet that there is a difference between "the anonymous deity we can't understand or grasp" and "the specific and very clearly, and contradictory God image that is created in the Bible."

 

It's not wrong to believe that there is some God out there.

 

The problem is that you trust the works of some authors, 2000 years ago, that they were honest, truthful, serious and gave you exact and real historical descriptions of some stories. What if you had found the story about the mermaid in there, or little red riding hood? Would that have changed the concept for you if God exists or not?

 

Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?

 

Lets start with the question if there is "a" God of some kind out there. Okay, lets say we stay agnostic and say it's possible, but we don't know.

 

How do we go from there to: a guy born from a virgin, with a different accounts of when that can't be harmonized, visited by astrologers, repeated some clever philosophical ideas that the stoics already had said some hundred years earlier, wearing sandals, etc etc... ? And the only reason why you "know" this is because some guys wrote it down, in the same way as many other fabricated miracles at that time. There are other books, with other authors, from the same time period, that also have miracles in them. Why don't you believe those???

 

Hans, I understand your point, and it is taken as that to me. Personally, the little historical we have of the Nt is enough for me to validate that particular group, as existant, and at the least, sensible enough to write about what they saw, or what was told to them. Now whether those writings where cherry picked, or altered; thats always been debatable.

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Guest Acorn
Waiting on your response
Your question doesn't make sense because it makes the assumption that I claimed groups do not exist yet I never once claimed that, so why should I defend a position that I never claimed, and I explained it to you that churches and groups are not the same thing. And why must it be important for us to be the same as you, anyway? Is it because you can't understand people unless they're the same as you?

 

Anyway there Neon Genesis. I statred another topic then it got slammed so, heres your freakin answer.

 

Judah was real. The Hebrews were real, and so are many other cultures that exist today, and have a heritage. So. I might cant prove that God is real, but the people that created Him in His book, and their culture is real. Israel.

 

Was that ever in contention? What you just said is what many of us on this site will say. The bible is a progressive work of Sumerian myth in the early OT transitioning into the Hebrew ideas that become influenced by the Persians by the later OT books. Then the New Testament is the further development within the world of Hellenism and the other hodgepodge of philosophies during that time.

 

The people that wrote the bible were very real of course, and IMO the Bible serves as a good historical tool of analyzing some of the thoughts of the day.

 

I agree. There are many different veiws on the MO.

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Guest Acorn
Chicken. Go on. Yes or no. Would this group, in history, be considered existant.
And I'm telling you, I CANNOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE YOUR QUESTION MAKES NO SENSE. You're asking me to think of a real situation that happened and asking me if this real situation is real, what the fuck? That would be like me asking you to think about the last time you ate a meal and asking you if your meal was real. You make no sense, and if this is some sort of word game to trap me in your arguments, I'm not falling for it. You're just like those Pharisees who would try to trap Jesus with their nonsensical questions. Furthermore, I NEVER SAID I DID NOT BELIEVE GROUPS WERE NON-EXISTENT. YOU ARE PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH, STOP IT. You were the one who said we were like a church, I pointed out to you that we were a group, not a church, and I pointed out to you that churches and groups are not the same thing. Stop being a hypocrite, please?

 

Yes. You are right. I was inticing the question, from frustration of your rambling. But, then I got very direct and elementary, and after a little heat from Daddy, gave you my point.

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I agree, yet delusions; I am not delusional. Everyday I wake up with thoughts of the gaps and gray areas of the Bible. The one thing that has really grasped my mind, is why. Why is it that I have seen all I have seen, obtain the knowledge outside of the Bible, been through mental wars in trying to sift through history, documents, doctrine, etc. All outside God and the Bible. And still strongly feel that theres a God, and that he's still around. Maybe its what Ive been through, and gotten past in my life.

You haven't realized yet that there is a difference between "the anonymous deity we can't understand or grasp" and "the specific and very clearly, and contradictory God image that is created in the Bible."

 

It's not wrong to believe that there is some God out there.

 

The problem is that you trust the works of some authors, 2000 years ago, that they were honest, truthful, serious and gave you exact and real historical descriptions of some stories. What if you had found the story about the mermaid in there, or little red riding hood? Would that have changed the concept for you if God exists or not?

 

Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?

 

Lets start with the question if there is "a" God of some kind out there. Okay, lets say we stay agnostic and say it's possible, but we don't know.

 

How do we go from there to: a guy born from a virgin, with a different accounts of when that can't be harmonized, visited by astrologers, repeated some clever philosophical ideas that the stoics already had said some hundred years earlier, wearing sandals, etc etc... ? And the only reason why you "know" this is because some guys wrote it down, in the same way as many other fabricated miracles at that time. There are other books, with other authors, from the same time period, that also have miracles in them. Why don't you believe those???

 

Hans, I understand your point, and it is taken as that to me. Personally, the little historical we have of the Nt is enough for me to validate that particular group, as existant, and at the least, sensible enough to write about what they saw, or what was told to them. Now whether those writings where cherry picked, or altered; thats always been debatable.

 

Or if they were ever true or meant to be taken literally in the first place. With the New Testament I don't see any reason to believe the things that aren't corroborated elsewhere. Otherwise why not just be a Mormon, or Muslim or any other religion that has writings about the supernatural events they are based on.

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Hans, I understand your point, and it is taken as that to me. Personally, the little historical we have of the Nt is enough for me to validate that particular group, as existant, and at the least, sensible enough to write about what they saw, or what was told to them. Now whether those writings where cherry picked, or altered; thats always been debatable.
But again, just because the followers of the scripture exist does not mean the characters within scripture existed, otherwise that proves Allah is real just because Muslims and even Muhammad exist. At least Muslims have evidence Muhammad was a real person, Christians don't even have that much proof about Jebus. And even most biblical scholars agree that the characters within the bible are not the actual authors of the bible itself, unless you claim Moses wrote about his own death while he was dead.
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Teacher I have meditated some on what you have said. But I did not die. I found resonances between what you said and my experiences though.

 

Maybe I should rephrase the question? How about… What capabilities does a person with understanding possess? How do I recognize when I or someone else has understanding?

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