Stupid American Organizations And Their Stupid Pledges!

[upstarter]

Okay, my first official rant! Why can I not sign my kids up for anything without fucking Gawd appearing in the pledge? Scouting... an American import... there's Gawd. Now I try to sign my 6 year old daughter up for t-ball and what do I find in the fucking Little League (another American import) pledge but Gawd!!!

 

Can't people down there in the US of A go to the bathroom without pledging to Gawd!? What does baseball have to do with Gawd?

And for that matter, why does everything have to have a pledge? What's with you people and the pledges???

 

I pledge to never say another pledge as long as I live!!

 

Heather

[florduh]

I apologize for the USA.

 

God save the queen!

 

- Chris

[Amethyst]

Americans have made pledges as a means of appearing loyal to a group or country. Even if one is not loyal, all you have to do is appear respectful and say the pledge and everyone will assume that you are. Stupid, really. Actions speak louder than words.

[SWIM]

Reminds me of the moron sports players, in football or other similar sports, that make a BIG showing of "thanking" god for their victory...

 

LOL Like god (if it exisited) would give a flying rats ass if you "won" a game or not. What, god hates the other side? Or "your" side was somehow blessed?

 

If this shit "really" meant anything at all, sports handicappers and bookies would be charting religion not stats...

 

LOL

 

I think it's funny how atheists are in the minority, but me being one, I win more times then I loose in poker... God therefore must favor the atheist following this logic...

 

So damn stupid it reeks..

[MonolithTMA]

What does baseball have to do with Gawd?

And for that matter, why does everything have to have a pledge? What's with you people and the pledges???

 

I think the order is:

 

1. God

2. Baseball

3. Apple Pie

4. Chevrolet

 

Unless the pie is really good.

[Amethyst]

I think the order is:

 

1. God

2. Baseball

3. Apple Pie

4. Chevrolet

 

Unless the pie is really good.

 

Don't forget Ford, NASCAR and football.

[godlessgrrl]

Isn't wacking off somewhere in the top 5 All-American pastimes?

 

Or is that only when pie is involved?

[Vendredie]

As an American who did Girl Scouts for about a year I never had to say any pledge. I didn't even know there were pledges in most kid sports leagues. They're actually rarely said and nobody cares about them here. Well, not for the girls' things anyway, like scouting and sports and stuff. I'm not so sure about the guys.

[R. S. Martin]

Very interesting response.

 

I have noticed that Americans on here seldom respond to anything I say about American politics. However, they will rant and rave about it to hell and back among themselves.

 

I have also seen how bitterly Americans will protest against all mention of God on their money, in the Pledges, in the Constitution, etc.

 

But when a Canadian does it....suddenly they all defend their country. It's not so bad, they say. It's just the way we do things here, they say. Get used to it or get out, they say. Admittedly, it's not spelled out in those words but that's what it amounts to. Nobody sympathizes. Nobody says "You're absolutely right! I hated it every single day we had to say allegience to the flag. One country under god--FUCK IT!" Suddenly they all stand shoulder to shoulder against one of their own just because she happens to live a kilometer or two across the international border.

 

And then they wonder why the world hates them.

 

Vendredie, I liked your reply. You responded like Heather was a warm-blooded human like yourself.

 

Heather, I don't know what to say. I'm one of those people who tend to go along with almost anything in real life just to keep the peace. Will it do to explain to the top guy or gal that since you're Canadian this doesn't sit right with you and "Can I stroke that part out before I sign it?"

[upstarter]

Wow Ruby, I hadn't noticed that, but you make a good point.

 

I think what I'll likely end up doing, if I find that they say the pledge, ie. at the beginning of games etc., is just tell my daughter not to say it or to modify it.

 

Here's the pledge,

 

I trust in God,

I love my country and will obey its laws.

I will play fair and strive to win.

But win or lose I will always do my best.

 

I'm thinking I'll just tell my daughter to say "I trust in Me". The rest of it is okay... I guess. And who is going to know what she's saying anyway. Except her and me.

 

Heather

[florduh]

I cannot vouch for anyone else but I can just speak for me. If you notice, I am very outspoken. I NEVER as far as I know, have criticized anyone elses country and not Canada for sure. I will rip plenty of issues in the USA. I do have opinions about other countries but generally keep them to myself, as I see it, it is not my place as that is not my country. The only time I say anything about another country is if it affects me or my family and friends.

 

As far as the phenomina you noticed,...Americans are an interesting lot. We will fight like cats and dogs among ourselves. We are a big disfunctional family. We will fight and tear each other apart. However, if someone from outside our disfunctional family starts to proverbially throw stones, we will, in knee jerk fashion, band together and go at the people throwing the stones. Don't ask me why, that is just how we are. We are and always have been a very patriotic lot at times event to the point of blind nationalism. Sometimes that is good, sometimes it is bad but either way you see it, that is who we are. I don't think most Americans ever intend to insult or cause bad feelings among people of other contries. Our government...I cannot speak for, but the average person here, if you get down to the nitty gritty are generally wanting to get along with everyone.

 

You also speak for me. That's exactly how I perceive Americans.

 

- Chris

[R. S. Martin]

That is exactly how I sized things up and it makes for communication barriers on all levels when it is not possible to discuss issues of common concern. This communication barrier is the stuff of which antiAmericanism is born, which grows into terrorist attacks. And then Americans wonder why people don't like them. That's why.

 

We are not allowed to express views of the war with Iraq with you because it critiques your government. But the war with Iraq affects us just as much as it affects you. In fact, most of the rest of the world is more vulnerable than you are. BUT we're not allowed to talk with you about it, nor are we allowed to discuss solutions, because that is considered to be "throwing stones" at you and your government.

 

Perhaps you think we should leave these discussions to the diplomats and other officially assigned government people. Sorry, that is not democratic.

[hereticzero]

I go through those things and cross out what I don't agree to and then hand it back to them. I have yet to have a person challenge me, if they do, then I'll protest that the organization is trying to convert ball players. Where I live, I expected to have many such fights but I've actually only had a few problems with holy rollers. Organizations around here try to distance themselves from appearing like any type of a religious event.

[R. S. Martin]

Wow Ruby, I hadn't noticed that, but you make a good point.

 

I think what I'll likely end up doing, if I find that they say the pledge, ie. at the beginning of games etc., is just tell my daughter not to say it or to modify it.

 

Here's the pledge,

 

I trust in God,

I love my country and will obey its laws.

I will play fair and strive to win.

But win or lose I will always do my best.

 

I'm thinking I'll just tell my daughter to say "I trust in Me". The rest of it is okay... I guess. And who is going to know what she's saying anyway. Except her and me.

 

Heather

 

That sounds like a good idea to me. It definitely is a humanist value to trust in oneself (I think). About "I love my country"--I sure love my country and I would let the Americans think what they like when I say it. I would be thinking "O Canada, my home and native land...the true north strong and free..." The rest looks fine to me. I don't know what you see in it. Same goes for O Canada. I know some people don't like it because it refers to God once or twice. I find it easy to substitute God with something else. I just love the song because I love my country--the wide open spaces, the virigin wilderness, the idea of Canada and all it stands for.

 

Just got done reading Michael Adams's book Fire and Ice on the values of Canadians and Americans. Reading his book makes me feel ever so glad to be Canadian. Of course, he's Canadian, Torontonian to be exact. Grew up in smalltown Ontario I think, though I may have him mixed up with someone else. What he says meshes exactly with what I see on here and what I've read in other texts on the two countries.

 

Americans are so intensely focused--to the point of obsession--on being united. I think Burnedout captures it beautifully. In comparison, we're pretty laid back and relaxed. Like the maple leaves floating on some beaver dam or salmons in some mountain brook. Sorry, I don't know too much about BC. Adams's point (also underscored by at least one American historian) was that Americans took things into their own hands and forced independence with large amounts of bloodshed while Canadians waited another century and got their indepence peacefully and without bloodshed. Despite all their show of unity, it's the Americans who had a Revolution; Canadians never had a bloody war worth mentioning. I'm not sure where the Mackenzie frenzie fits it; maybe not much bloodshed. The US is "indivisible" by Constitution, whereas Canada has always hung together rather tentatively. (I wouldn't know these details but this is what Adams says and I assume he knows his stuff.) Quebec has made a lot of noise about leaving, but Adams says for all we know Newfoundland will leave before Quebec. And it's Canadians who turn out for elections. Canadians have big government but, according to Adams, it's a government they have a word in, as opposed to the American government.

 

So the Americans are so intensely focused on being united but they're quarreling like all get-out and hating each other's guts and their government. There's all these crazy culture wars spilling over into other parts of the world, and they don't even know their neighbours. But they think they are united. There's a lot of show and a lot of noise. Maybe that is why they have all these crazy pledges to begin with--they need God to hold this jangled mess together. People who actually trust themselves and each other don't need pledges. Or god.

 

Okay, I'm exagerating. Sorry. I'm like you. I like most Americans on the personal level just like I do Canadians or any other people, but the things they believe in...apparently the things they believe in are as dogmatically closed to discussion as are those of the fundy Christians. I'm beginning to understand why there is a "never-ending war," to borrow a term from Gramps.

[Naughtyhamster]

Can't people down there in the US of A go to the bathroom without pledging to Gawd!? What does baseball have to do with Gawd?

 

 

Your quote reminds me of the scrawls on the restroom walls at the university I go to now. The restrooms in some areas of the college have small chalkboards on the walls in the stalls so people can tag them with whatever crappy saying they want. I've read some rather humorous stuff that some xtian ladies have written, and I've added my own atheistic rantings by their scrawls. Someone last week wrote "Jesus loves you!" and then someone else ( or the same person who wrote the Jesus quote) drew a crude drawing of Hello Kitty. I thought for a moment and wrote "Jesus loves Hello Kitty and thinks you're a bitch!" next to the xtian tagging on the board.

[R. S. Martin]

Chalk boards for the graffeti. Neat idea.

[HuaiDan]

I think what that German philosopher with the really difficult name that sounds like a sneeze and begins with "N" said about monsters and abysses applies to the States, in light of that.

I remember at a dinner party recently, a french attendee wanted to remark on US foreign policy, and a couple americans present took the opportunity to antagonize the fellow in a very ugly way. Yeah, you see it, but most americans traveling or living abroad are more open minded than that.

[Japedo]

I've been to lots of sporting events (High school, College, and Professional) and have never had to say any pledge. Sing the National Anthem yes, but I've never seen any pledge cited.

 

 

As far as the discussion about the Non-Americans Vs the Americans it's really a non-issue.

 

I really hate to be broad brushed with any group. (I.E. You Americans are such __________ Fill in the blank) Such broad-brushed statements can and will cause a knee jerk reaction to those Americans who do not fill that stereotype, and they'll tell you so.

 

No one prevents anyone from saying anything about this country as far as I see. If your questioned on why or how you said it, it still doesn't prevent anyone from speaking their mind. One can either ignore the question or answer it, it's as simple as that.

 

Half of this country is anti-War... Half of this country stands with anyone who opposes the war regardless of their nationality , same as the other half who stands with people who support it and denounce all of us opposed to the war as being "anti-American", it is not nationality bias. It is mostly Neocon shills who love to blast people with these nonsense labels. You should have tried being an Anti-War American when 80% of the people supported the war, No one ever prevented me from disdaining the war or the government, just labeled me as a terrorist sympathizer and such. Hurt my feelings yes, but I still stuck to my stance. No one is entitled to be agreed with... being disagreed with is the biggest compliment one can get, means you're an independent thinker. I have never seen anyone put a muzzle on anyone not an American and attempt to shut down their opinions on anything, especially on EXC.

[The-Captain]

Wow...turns out this thread wasn't what I thought it was from the title.. :backs out slowly:

[R. S. Martin]

Ruby,

 

I don't know if I can communicate what I want to communicate but I will try. I am not in ANY WAY trying to be dismissive, condecending, pedantic or arrogant. It is not my intent to insult any of our nonAmerican friends here...not at all. To understand somewhat why we are the way we are, it would help to read the primal document that predates the United States Constitution and was in fact the first united statement we had as a young nation. That document is the Declaration of Independence. If you read the text of it, you will find that there were many tyrannical acts heaped upon us by King George of Britian.

 

Burnedout, thank you for your level-headed response. I respect that. I have a few questions:

 

1. If King George was such a tyrant, why was it only the Thirteen Colonies that rebelled? Why didn't what later became Canada also rebel? What about the other British colonies throughout the world? Surely the Thirteen Colonies that became the United States were not treated that much differently from India, China, and Canada. Yet they were the only ones the led a bloody revolt.

 

2. You present only one side of the story. Have you read the British Parliamentary documents on the issues? Have you read the Canadian version of the American Revolution? Also, have you read the Australian or French versions, just to mention a few?

 

3. I noticed that one compliant had to do with King George's protection of Native Peoples. I consider that to be correct behaviour of him and do not understand that you included such a complaint in a document that was meant to acquire my sympathies for the cause of the United States. Can you explain in what way you meant for it to further your cause?

 

4. I know that a significant number of people, known as the Loyalists, fled from the Thirteen Colonies to what later became Eastern Canada because they disagreed with the Rebels. How do you defend the claim that King George really was such a tyrant if so many of your own people disagreed on the topic?

 

With due respect and in all honesty, the picture that emerges is one of a defiant and angry people who will stop at nothing to get what they want. How do you refute this?

 

We have also been a beacon for peoples who have been oppressed around the world. I am not saying to any other folks here that you are not a beacon because in modern days you truely are. But simply read the the text and think about it. That is kind of the heart of most loyal partiotic Americans and we are not trying to make light of it, it is a fear that we do not want to return to tyranny that led to this document, the war and all the other acts after this one.

 

MUCH could be said on this but perhaps this is not the time.

[R. S. Martin]

Thank you, Burnedout, very good answers. You're one person who doesn't lose his head when challenged. I love that. It means I get to ask hard questions--and actually get answers--without losing my own head as in getting it bit or chopped off.

 

What you say helps me understand the American side of the story much better than I ever have. Understandably, I also get a biased story and propaganda. I think you've read documents on a level of detail I haven't, but it meshes with the theoretical overviews of history I have read, so I trust it's accurate. Thank you for sharing your insights. You have earned my respect.