Guest consciencebound Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 My Conversion and De-Conversion Story I had a conversation with someone lately via email and they were asking about how I became a Christian and how I ended up leaving the Christian faith. Most of the time people who are Christians do not see how someone could have been a “true Christian†if they end up leaving the faith so when they hear that I am no longer a Christian they assume that I had a false faith of some kind. I wanted to briefly share my story of how I became a Christian and how I came to not be a Christian. I know that many people will still feel as though I was not a “real†Christian but there is not much that I can do about that. The bottom line for me is that I was honestly a Christian and believed in Jesus and the Bible with all of my heart. I left the faith because I feel that I was bound by my conscience to be honest with myself about what I could and could not truly believe anymore. I grew up in a Christian home but was not serious about my faith as a teenager at all. I was into drugs and alcohol quite a bit and I had a pretty bad experience on some heavy drugs which scared me into stopping. As I sobered up I had this intense feeling that I was not right with God. I felt that if I were to die that i was likely going to go to hell. I KNEW what I had to do to get right with God from my Christian upbringing and so after a few “divine appointments†of meeting people who invited me to church with them I accepted and went. I KNEW that this was the right thing to do and I FELT that as I heard the gospel and responded that I was forgiven of my sin and assured of eternal life because of the atoning sacrifice of Christ in my behalf on the cross. I accepted this by faith and my life totally changed. I then wanted to study and know as much as i could about my faith. Not to prove it to be true, because i already knew that by faith, but to simply be able to “give an answer to everyone who asks for the hope that is within meâ€. I had a lot of friends at the time who were not Christians and who thought that my new found dogmatism in this narrow minded Christian faith was misguided. “Sure Jesus was fine, but how can you say that he is the only way†they would tell me. I wanted what I was experiencing with God to be my friends experience so i wanted to give them the best arguments that I could find to show them that Christianity was a rational belief. I read and listened to tapes by Josh McDowell, Normal Geisler, Henry Morris and any other apologetics that I could find who were popular at the time (about 1990 - 1991). Unable to “convince†my friends, I moved on with my life and immersed myself in the church and found all new Christian friends who were an encouragement to my faith rather than always wanting to attack me. I lived every day as if God was with me the whole day. Reading my Bible and praying and talking to God at work and throughout my days. I loved to worship God and felt especially close to the Lord during worship times at church. It seemed that God was answering my prayers and truly responding to me about daily things in my life. There were countless times that certain “coincidences†happened which seemed to show that God was truly working in my life. I had no doubts in my mind that Jesus was real and that my sins were forgiven. In time I had opportunity to teach various bible studies adn realized how much I really did not know and so I went to a small Bible College in California for a few years. I felt a call to preach the gospel and to teach people about the faith. When i taught, people seemed to be encouraged and drawn closer to the Lord and many people told me about how much they were able to learn from my teaching. After Bible College, I took a position as a youth pastor for a few years and then taught in various capacities in different churches that I went to. I taught small group Bible studies, new believers classes at a larger church, preached in pulpits from time to time, and taught at various random times in different settings. During all of this time (about 8 years or so) I don’t remember EVER doubting that God was real or that He was near me every day. Although I struggled like anyone does when you feel distant from the Lord at times I always had faith and always knew without a doubt that I was following the truth and that my sins were forgiven. I always worked with people who were not christians and I loved to talk to people about my faith and try to persuade them that they should consider Christ. In about 1999, I worked with a few guys that I would talk to on a regular basis about Christianity. One of them in particular kept pushing me on some basic questions about knowing whether the Bible was true or not and some of their questions just stuck in the back of my head. At first, it just encouraged me to study more so that i could give a good answer to them and feel confortable with the answer myself but as time went on, I started to become more and more concerned. I met with my pastor and other people from time to time to share with them the issues that I was having problems with and I would get a little better but end up coming back to these questions which seemed to be a real problem. I remember reading a book by John Macarthur on preaching and he was talking about various preachers of the past who had struggled with their faith. One guy, G. Cambel Morgan, had similar questions and just decided one day that if the Word of God was truly powerful, that he should be able to set all of his other books aside for a time and just read the Bible and if it was true, he would be convinced of it. He did this for a year and when the year was up, he emerged with a faith that was stronger than ever. I figured that I would try the same thing. I put my apologetics and theology books on the shelf and just focused on trying to read the Bible and better my relationship with God. I tried reading more devotional books that were meant to encourage my daily walk with Christ . Books by men like John Piper, Andrew Murray, A.W Tozer and others. My thought was that since I did not come to Christ through arguments and logic, why was I trying to keep my faith in that way. I came to Christ because i had an experience with God where I felt his presence and just knew that Jesus was real and could forgive my sins. It was as if God had written his truth on my heart and I didn’t need to do anything to figure it out, I just had to believe it. I would go back and forth between the struggle with my intellectual doubts and my internal faith which seemed to come directly from God. Eventually, I felt as though I was avoiding my intellectual problems and I truly felt like I was not being honest with myself. I had to deal with these things. I had to face them head on. If the Bible was true then surely it would stand the test of intense scrutiny as has been the testimony of so many famous Christians like C.S Lewis, Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel and others. My problems and questions only got bigger the more I studied and looked into things. I realized that I was assuming the Christian faith to be true before I even started to find out of it was defensible. What bothered me was that when I was talking to other people who were Mormon’s or Jehovah’s Witnesses or Muslims I would not allow them to do that. They had to deal with the contradictions in their faith and show that there as good historical reasons to believe it. If a Mormon could assume the truth of the Book of Mormon at the beginning then anything that I showed them that tried to point out inconsistencies or errors in it could be resolved since they KNEW it was true in the first place because of an experience that they had with God. I realized that I was doing essentially the same thing and that it was really not an honest way to look at things. I had to look at the Christian faith from the outside and see if it was internally consistent like I would with any other religion or truth claim. Even though i felt as though I had a genuine experience with God and that he answered my prayers and showed himself to be real to me, I had to consider that many people of other faiths had the exact same experience with their “Godâ€. How was I to distinguish between true experiences with God and false ones? Wasn’t it a little arrogant for me to expect that my experience with God was true while all of these other people’s was false without even looking at the facts? Was it possible that my experiences with God were imagined or that I might be the one who was believing the wrong things? I had to at least grant the POSSIBILITY that this could be true. I easily wrote off other people’s claims to answered prayers and religious truth since it did not agree with mine but was that truly justified? The problem was that when I held the Christian faith to as strict a standard of logic and historical accuracy as I did Mormonism or Islam, it failed just like they did. The more I looked at it from that perspective, the more I saw that there was no more reason to believe Christianity then there was to believe that Mohamed was a prophet of God. And the likelihood of Mohamed being a prophet seemed pretty slim. I have continued to read and ask questions and talk to as many people who would talk to me (which often is not that many) about these things. I just came to a point where I realized that I really did not believe it any longer even though I am very open to the possibility of the Christian faith being true. I still like to think that I am open and willing to listen to what someone wants to say. I will listen and evaluate whether it seems likely to be true based on whether it is a logically consistent belief, whether it lines up with reality as we know it, and is consistent with History as far as we can tell. I can’t in good conscience just take religious claims on faith since there are so many competing religious claims that are asking me to do that. There has to be a way to distinguish them and to separate truth from error or else it would be too easy to drink a poisoned glass of Kool-aid to my own demise. For more on the specific reasons that I have for not being a Christian see the following posts on this blog: Truth Seeking The Psychology of Biblicism Why I Have Difficulty With Christianity Loving God by Distorting His Word Prayer: Shouldn’t it Work Like the Bible Says it Does? Will You Pass The Test? The Testimony of the Holy Spirit as it Relates to Knowing the Truth of Scripture Jeff consciencebound.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hey Consciencebound, welcome to the forums. Thanks for sharing your testimony. I think it was well written. Nice balance. My exit from Christianity was slightly different from yours. But yours certainly seems to stem from a desire to understand and be honest. I admire that. Anyway, again welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I can’t in good conscience just take religious claims on faith since there are so many competing religious claims that are asking me to do that. There has to be a way to distinguish them and to separate truth from error or else it would be too easy to drink a poisoned glass of Kool-aid to my own demise. How true that is. That's a great way to put it too. It's far too often that religions say to put their own religion up to the same scrutiny of other religions, but fall short of that standard. Welcome Jeff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonolithTMA Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Conscience Bound To Leave The Faith What a wonderful way to put it. Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtdude Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 ....I realized that I was assuming the Christian faith to be true before I even started to find out of it was defensible. What bothered me was that when I was talking to other people who were Mormon’s or Jehovah’s Witnesses or Muslims I would not allow them to do that. They had to deal with the contradictions in their faith and show that there as good historical reasons to believe it. If a Mormon could assume the truth of the Book of Mormon at the beginning then anything that I showed them that tried to point out inconsistencies or errors in it could be resolved since they KNEW it was true in the first place because of an experience that they had with God. I realized that I was doing essentially the same thing and that it was really not an honest way to look at things. .... The problem was that when I held the Christian faith to as strict a standard of logic and historical accuracy as I did Mormonism or Islam, it failed just like they did.... Hey Jeff, great points in your post. Welcome to our little corner of apostacy. The "spiritual" experiences that appear to be so consistent in all religions seem to me to be our species' ability to create illusion in our minds of "a meetng with the Almighty" when in reality these are simple exercises in imagination and selective memory of events. So how are your relationships going with your former congregants and christian friends? Have you told them? It's a very tough thing, because they are bound (if they are following scripture) to disassociate from you as an apostate. I hope it's not too painful for you, but in my experience, I lost many good friends along the way. Hope to hear more from you on the board here. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest consciencebound Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 ....I realized that I was assuming the Christian faith to be true before I even started to find out of it was defensible. What bothered me was that when I was talking to other people who were Mormon’s or Jehovah’s Witnesses or Muslims I would not allow them to do that. They had to deal with the contradictions in their faith and show that there as good historical reasons to believe it. If a Mormon could assume the truth of the Book of Mormon at the beginning then anything that I showed them that tried to point out inconsistencies or errors in it could be resolved since they KNEW it was true in the first place because of an experience that they had with God. I realized that I was doing essentially the same thing and that it was really not an honest way to look at things. .... The problem was that when I held the Christian faith to as strict a standard of logic and historical accuracy as I did Mormonism or Islam, it failed just like they did.... Hey Jeff, great points in your post. Welcome to our little corner of apostacy. The "spiritual" experiences that appear to be so consistent in all religions seem to me to be our species' ability to create illusion in our minds of "a meetng with the Almighty" when in reality these are simple exercises in imagination and selective memory of events. So how are your relationships going with your former congregants and christian friends? Have you told them? It's a very tough thing, because they are bound (if they are following scripture) to disassociate from you as an apostate. I hope it's not too painful for you, but in my experience, I lost many good friends along the way. Hope to hear more from you on the board here. Take care. Hi All. thanks for the welcome. I have lost a lot of good friends along the way but to their credit I still have a small few that I am still close to and we talk very openly about our disagreements. I respect them greatly for this and I appreciate their friendship. A few are pastor friends of mine and others are just regular joe's who are thinking people. Obviously, I think they are very wrong and they think the same of me but it is good to have friends who disagree with you and who have the guts to say so to your face in a polite way. I find that it is very easy to get in out little "unbelieving" group and just bash Christianity all the time and it is easy to just default to the weak straw man arguments out there (which are unfortunately so popular). For the most part, the Christian friends I have are very philosophically minded and love to talk and discuss these things over a few beers and I love that. We exchange books and articles that are critical of each other and then get together to talk about them. On the down side, I lost my marriage of 14 years over this and I have 4 great kids who get to bear the brunt of this change of belief. Although divorce is not the end of the world and is often the case when one person leaves the faith and the other does not, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I hope to be able to still raise my kids without trying to undercut everything that their mom tells them about the Bible. They are all in a Christian school and I even help them with their Bible homework when I can . Even though I disagree strongly with her view, I don't want to be an ass about it if I can help it. As the kids get older and want to know my opinion and want to know about certain books on my shelf or why I am not a Christian I will tell them in the most respectful way i can. i just want them to grow up to be thinking people and if they choose on their own accord to be a Christian after they have evaluated the evidence then i will not push it with them. I just hope that if the do end up to be Christians as adults that i can have the same open relationship that I have with my current Christian friends which i talk so openly to. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderer Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 On the down side, I lost my marriage of 14 years over this and I have 4 great kids who get to bear the brunt of this change of belief. Although divorce is not the end of the world and is often the case when one person leaves the faith and the other does not, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I hope to be able to still raise my kids without trying to undercut everything that their mom tells them about the Bible. They are all in a Christian school and I even help them with their Bible homework when I can . Even though I disagree strongly with her view, I don't want to be an ass about it if I can help it. As the kids get older and want to know my opinion and want to know about certain books on my shelf or why I am not a Christian I will tell them in the most respectful way i can. i just want them to grow up to be thinking people and if they choose on their own accord to be a Christian after they have evaluated the evidence then i will not push it with them. I just hope that if the do end up to be Christians as adults that i can have the same open relationship that I have with my current Christian friends which i talk so openly to. Hi Jeff, My story is almost identical to yours, except in my case, I was separated from 5 children. I took the same position as you did, and it didn't turn out well for anyone. I left my children in that hell-hole called Christianity, even though I had learned what an oppressive, life-sucking mind game it was. Your situation may be completely different, but on retrospect, I gained nothing at all by going along with my ex-wife's brainwashing of my children. The whole time I was being supportive and reasonable, she and the church were not exercising the same restraints. While the children were young and impressionable, the message came across that there was something wrong with me, and not with Christianity. If I had it to do over, I would fight to share my take on Christianity with them, and if it causes spiritual crises, then so be it. The message they would get from that is that I cared enough about them to fight for their right to think for themselves - something they aren't going to be encouraged to do in the Church. One other thing: If you are required to pay child support, make sure you pay it like clockwork. That gives you a HUGE amount of leverage. Peace. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlr72 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hi Jeff, Wow. I have to tell you that reading your post brought back some vivid memories of my days as a Christian. All the names of the top dogs of the evangelical world, John Piper, Lee Strobel, etc., really hit hard. I have such vivid memories of reading their books and listening to their sermons on the radio that there's still a small part of me that wants to go back into church. Which makes it all the more painful for me, because I know the vastness of this facade we call Christianity. Very painful. My Christian walk was very similar to your's. It was only after asking some real questions that I was able to see clearly through this religion. For instance, I'm very into the natural world. I love astronomy, biology, meteorology, etc, particularly astronomy. My faith was telling me to sacrifice my logic and intelligence and believe that the universe is just 8,000 years old or so, when it takes the light from a star on the other side of the galaxy 100,000 years to reach our eyes. Another question I had had to do with biology. I believed that God created the Garden of Eden and everything in it was perfect and good. Then a couple of years ago when I really started being honest with myself, I saw a picture of a snake...rattle snake I think. Genesis says that God gave all the animals in the Garden of Eden every green thing to eat. If that were the case, why would a rattle snake need venom if all he's going to do is eat a grape? It was little things like that the really forced me to start being honest with myself. Before I knew it, I was livid with myself for ever believing such drivel. Welcome to the board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Conscience bound to leave the faith. That was my experience exactly. Were it not for that little thing called a conscience I would still be a Christian--I'd have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Try telling that to some people who mean a lot to me. They won't believe a word of it. I assume the same applies to you, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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