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Huntsvil

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Huntsvil~

 

Just what exactly is "A New Kind of Christian"? ....And I'm not referring to the book.

 

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  Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death.

Huntsvil - why do you assume that we fear death? What you've just done is build a strawman - something that makes your argument work out the way you want it to. If you want to interact with us as fellow humans, I suggest you ask us what we think rather than trying to tell us what we think.

 

Huntsvil~

 

Just what exactly is "A New Kind of Christian"? ....And I'm not referring to the book.

 

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Yes Huntsvil - perhaps you could explain what you mean by "christian" - what are the requirements according to you?

 

It would help if you could tell us more about what you believe. Otherwise we're stuck with making assumptions based on our own views about christianity.

 

(And welcome to our forums).

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Pitchu is sabotaging my diet with her lemon cake analogy.

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:loser:   How did I miss this one.

 

How did you come to the conclusion that everyone here is in dire fear of death?  It seems to me that the ones who fear death are the ones who keep coming here flapping around and chirping about what is going to happen after we die, the fearsom judgement and an eternity in hell.

 

In fact, 23 years of Christianity did not alleviate any of my fears of death.  Constantly hearing about the horrors of hell, and getting to heaven to hear "depart from me" after years of servive and being lukewarm- getting spit out of God's mouth, an eternity of suffering in hell, an endtimes senario of painful persecution...etc.  Did not alleviate my fears of dying, they intensified them.

 

I don't fear living a life and annihilation (non existance) after death.  Why would I fear that?

I agree here. Fear of death remained first and foremost in my mind most of the time I was christian. It seems odd..that those who are "assured" eternity in heaven would fear that very prospect.

 

If heaven is the perfect place to be, shouldn't we all be trying to get there sooner? What is the point of this life..if it is but a vapor and this world is not our home..what are we really doing here?

 

A thought just came to me..perhaps this life is a vacation..and that's why we don't want to go home? I mean..unless you are having a really crappy vacation, who wants to go home? :lmao:

 

Sorry..I am on vacation..only I'm at home and want to go somewhere..like the beach. Warm salt water..sunburn..sand..jelly fish...sharks..

 

Yep..fear of death is actually gone now.

 

I have differing opinions on the "afterlife". Depends on my mood. None are "logical" except the one where there is no afterlife. Its fun to imagine all sorts of things, and my current leanings are that there is an afterlife...but not with judgement and hellfire, nor with a heaven and singing praises daily..

 

Can I prove it? Nope..we'll see if we get there. If not, it just won't matter..

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Just what exactly is "A New Kind of Christian"? ....And I'm not referring to the book.

 

Apparently a very liberal Christian, which isn't exactly new -- just ask anyone who's ever gone to a UCC or Unitarian church. I went to Amazon and read the reviews. Not surprisingly, the fundies disagreed with it and rated it accordingly. Liberal Christianity does not change the fact that it is still just another myth, which is why I left (after trying a liberal church...yet another piece of the lemon cake that still disagreed with me).

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It's not just that.  Even if you don't fear for your own self as a Chritian, you can fear for everyone else.  What a horrible feeling to be a new mom and be holding a precious new baby, look down into their face and hope beyond hope that they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior before the age of accountability.  That weight of wondering if you gave birth to eternal hell kindling.  Wondering if grandpa is really saved because he is a Catholic as you watch him breath his last breath.  Crying to the pastor of after my mother died, because she was probably frying in hell in eternal suffering and there was nothing I could do about it. This is cruel stuff.  Why would I cling to a myth that puts my butt in heaven and my loved ones in hell, just to somehow alleviate my own fear of dying? :shrug:

 

I still haven't let go of the fear of death, and at times I must admit it consumes my mind. I believe what you state here Madame M has a big part of my fear, the indoctrination of fear, which is the hardest thing to unlearn.

 

Logically I know everyone that's lived, has also died, Part of me thinks because people don't come back it must be a better place. I don't know what I believe about when we all pass. I hate to think that we will never exist after this life, I believe that their is something (although I don't know what) after, or a part of this life. Part of me likes to think we come back with our loved ones.

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Excellent reasoning my friend. I had hoped to recieve a well reasoned answer and now I am satisfied.

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But, I had hoped it would not be the same answer I always get from my friends of this world. I am looking for some new ideas.

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The story I told is quite old and I apologize that I bored or ruffled a few feathers, such was not my intent at all. I have been reading a new book called "A New Kind of Christian" and that story was just a part of an analagy the auther was getting to that got me thinking. This book is quite disturbing to the traditional christians and might ...no will, be considered heresy to some christians who cant handle the future of the faith.

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It was my intention to air some of it here if I continued so as to see other points of view. For as you should know, all our opinions are colored by our envirments and life experiences. Please, again I apologize if I offended some.

Peace.

That's our Madame for you.

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This is good. You might do better at getting new ideas if you asked some new questions.

 

I suggest you read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn for some really new ideas, and you might want to throw in Philosophy in the Flesh by Lakoff and Johnson as well.

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We don't care if it is heresy.

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Let's have the new stuff.

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It's not just that.  Even if you don't fear for your own self as a Chritian, you can fear for everyone else.  What a horrible feeling to be a new mom and be holding a precious new baby, look down into their face and hope beyond hope that they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior before the age of accountability.  That weight of wondering if you gave birth to eternal hell kindling.  Wondering if grandpa is really saved because he is a Catholic as you watch him breath his last breath.  Crying to the pastor of after my mother died, because she was probably frying in hell in eternal suffering and there was nothing I could do about it. This is cruel stuff.  Why would I cling to a myth that puts my butt in heaven and my loved ones in hell, just to somehow alleviate my own fear of dying? :shrug:

True. But only when it's for people you love.

 

I haven't seen many Christians fearing their enemies going to hell. It's rather like they want their enemies to really go to hell.

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True. But only when it's for people you love.

 

I haven't seen many Christians fearing their enemies going to hell. It's rather like they want their enemies to really go to hell.

 

Exactly. I've only seen Christians fearing that their friends and loved ones will go to hell, not people they don't like.

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Apparently a very liberal Christian, which isn't exactly new -- just ask anyone who's ever gone to a UCC or Unitarian church.  I went to Amazon and read the reviews.  Not surprisingly, the fundies disagreed with it and rated it accordingly.  Liberal Christianity does not change the fact that it is still just another myth, which is why I left (after trying a liberal church...yet another piece of the lemon cake that still disagreed with me).

I know what kind of new Christians that actually get it all right!

 

They're called...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ex-Christians!

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1)  What you may see as discourtesy is often a sharp dismissiveness that's born out of seeing the same questions asked of us and the same territory covered hundreds and hundreds of times.  You're dealing with people eager to hear a question or observation that's enticingly new.

 

And I realized that the story of Exodus fits for ex-ch's. (Ex-C-odus)

 

We walked out of Egypt, away from the oppressing tyrant pharaoh, we come to the Nile and the armies are coming after us to take us back.

 

Why would anyone wonder why we’re upset and fight back with vigor?

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I have been reading a new book called "A New Kind of Christian" and that story was just a part of an analagy the auther was getting to that got me thinking. This book is quite disturbing to the traditional christians and might ...no will, be considered heresy to some christians who cant handle the future of the faith. It was my intention to air some of it here if I continued so as to see other points of view. For as you should know, all our opinions are colored by our envirments and life experiences. Please, again I apologize if I offended some.

Peace.

 

Huntsvil,

 

I'm assuming you are referring to the book by Brian MaClaren?

 

if so I read it a couple of years ago - it was on the 'banned' list at my church - which just made it FAR too tempting for yours truly. It had a profound effect on me and acted as one of the catalyst's that dissolved my fundamentalist faith.

 

I went onto read - 'finding faith' by the same author - which provided a safe bridge for me to cross intellectually from belief to disbelief. (The emotional journey was another story)

 

I think there is a lot of confusion over fear of dying and fear of being dead. Death holds no fear - but the thought of being no-more fills me with sadness. The thought of anyone I love ceasing to exist - fills me with sadness, and I experience 'fear' when thoughts of my children being killed in accident or loved ones dying of disease cross my mind.

 

I like to think I will die a good and dignified - peaceful death, but I suspect I might actually fight my demise right up until the end, despite my noble intentions, because I love life, because I love every single precious moment I spend with those I love - but I'm not afraid of the 'other side' - although when I was a christian I was ... but that's because I thought the concept of heaven as taught in christianity was the biggest most boring tedious drag ever.

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Not that I don't enjoy a good compliment, but this time the kudos go to Pitchu.  :)

Opps, I should have taken my nap sooner!

 

Sorry Pitchu.

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True. But only when it's for people you love.

 

I haven't seen many Christians fearing their enemies going to hell. It's rather like they want their enemies to really go to hell.

 

They need their enemies to go to hell, in the same way that Jonah needed Ninevah to be destroyed.

 

bdp

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They need their enemies to go to hell, in the same way that Jonah needed Ninevah to be destroyed.

 

bdp

Which proves that Christians don't follow the first and only law Jesus gave them to follow, love your neighbor as yourself (and that includes enemies).

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Strange thing -- because of my age, I'm probably closer to death than 97% of the people here, yet when I think of my death I find myself more and more focused on what people will think and say about me after I die. I almost never wonder how or when I'll die, or whether it will be painful or peaceful, and I've comfortably discarded any notion of an afterlife, but I do wonder what the people I love will say to one another about me in the years after I die.

 

I find myself hoping they'll swap stories of when I was particularly funny or outrageous, and that they'll keel over with laughter, remembering.

 

So, I'm stepping up the rate and intensity of being funny and outrageous whenever possible, and hoping those I love will make a note of it, for later.

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Huntsvil,

I think there is a lot of confusion over fear of dying and fear of being dead. Death holds no fear - but the thought of being no-more fills me with sadness. The thought of anyone I love ceasing to exist - fills me with sadness, and I experience 'fear' when thoughts of my children being killed in accident or loved ones dying of disease cross my mind.

 

I like to think I will die a good and dignified - peaceful death, but I suspect I might actually fight my demise right up until the end, despite my noble intentions, because I love life, because I love every single precious moment I spend with those I love - but I'm not afraid of the 'other side' - although when I was a christian I was ... but that's because I thought the concept of heaven as taught in christianity was the biggest most boring tedious drag ever.

Hey all, I want to first say thanks for the great tenor I see in the last few posts. They are truly thought inspiring and I really do appreciate it

I seem to have struck a chord here with this fear of dying talk and I wasn't expecting that but I should have...duh.

Yes I am reading the book you said and its been quite a moving experience both good and bad.

As far as fearing death? Its not something I have thought much about since coming to know God in the way I do now. I think most all of you that have posted here have expressed the feelings I have had all thru my life before the point I am now in this journey thru life. I don't know if I can be brief in my walk but I will try.

I struggled with believing in something as incomprehensible as God at an early age, say about 9yrs old. I was raised Presbyterian and indoctrinated into the belief that predestination trumps any choice we might have in knowing God. I then had trouble with that as I studied the Bible and moved on to the emotional side of faith, at that time I joined the Baptist belief system. But still not satisfied, mostly do to it not adding up to what I was experiencing, I again moved away from the faith to fill my time with pleasures of life. Not that they were all bad, the pleasures that is, but even that couldn't satisfy my asking mind. Now thru all this I just didnt think much about death except, as some would say here, when I was around other "christians'.

But then a strange thing happened to me when I grew tired of all the fuss and fighting over who is right or wrong, and so forth. I began to see a strange parellel to what life was dishing out and what I found as I turned around for another look at the Bible. It appeared that I was looking at the text in a more open mind and not in what I was taught to believe. Thus I was quite fasinated with the book I mentioned. I do however see that even the "new christian" book has its own problems and I realized that it was not without its own opinion colored statements. I believe that we are all unique and uniquely built for a greater purpose that only applies to us.And I find life is much more rewarding and exciting in that I can leave all the anxiety in life to His plan for me and spend my time with those I love and reaching to those I know not. For I seek only peace to reighn in the world, though I fear it may not be possible, and I hope that He has a great and exciting plan to be fulfilled as I discover it. My life is not perfect, no ones is. But I can truly say, as I have read before, that my" cup runneth over" and my life is full of joy even when I am sad. It is trange, don't you think.

Question? Well, let me see. May I ask that in a new topic, okay?

 

Peace

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  Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death. You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

But what if the second story is true?

Want more?

 

I personally do not fear death, and do not desire to live forever as me, in this world or a spiritual realm. The idea of reincarnation seems like something I would want to experience, try life over as a new being. Yes, its sad to think once its over, its over but instead of dreaming about everlasting life and worrying about how many sins I have committed, im living life and being the best person I can be. Right now my life may not be all that I want it to be but if it were to end right now, at least I know I died happy and not worried about hell. What I do worry about is dying a painful death and the emotional pain that my loved ones will experience. I pretty much have the same view on life and death as Solomon from the bible had, enjoy it will you have it becasue death gets everyone. Well minus the whole God giving us life to start with thing, still not sure on that part.

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Perhaps you have decided to believe in the second case because the one who fears death here is in fact none other then yourself. This is psychologically true: When people fear something they try to get around it as much as they can. Believing in a religion that states that your belief grants you paradise after death is one way to get around it.

 

Actually , you have practically admitted that you fear death by your own logic. Your assumption that anyone who doesnt believe in your religion fears death proves that you would fear death if you didnt have that religion. In fact it is quite the opposite. We who dont believe in an after life are the ones with guts. We face what seems most logical to us and accept it... some of us fear death and some of us dont . One thing no freethinker does is find belief in something for a cowardly emotional reason. Thats called running away, and we dont do that.

That's a good point; one which I missed. It basically sounds like a classic case of projection in that he assumes that we fear death. Is death something to be feared if there's no afterlife?

 

I could turn around and ask the believer the same question. If life is eternal and accepting Christ gets you a special ticket into Heaven, then why do you fear death. If a truck's about to hit you, why is your first impulse to survive? Why is it comforting for you to believe that there's something beyond death?

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And to add to the thread, who are you really? I mean, what is you, what identifies you?

 

Considering that in Heaven supposedly you don't remember the bad and good times in life, your memories are gone, so what's the purpose to go to heaven then? It's just your "spirit" or "soul", but not really You that will go there.

 

If it was you, as a person, then your memory has to follow too, but it's stored in your brain, and the brain will turn to dirt and not go with you...

 

So even with a heaven, the real You, your memories and identity is gone anyway...

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The Coward wrote:

if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death. You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

 

Not all atheists mindlessly try to accumilate wealth in the ways you are hinting at. Stop stereo typing us. I don't have a cowardly fear of death. I have a healthy fear of death and that is exactly why I value my life and the lives of others. Life is precious BECAUSE we only get one shot to live as far as we can know in the here and now. Atheists are not barred from valuing family, friends, communty, and people in general, if that is what you are hinting at.

 

LIFE AND PEOPLE HAVE MEANING AND VALUE FOR MANY OF US IN PART BECAUSE OF MORTALITY!

 

Instead of being a coward why don't you try living life on lifes terms and see if life is really as bleak as you think it is for atheists. Belief in bible god is based soley on fear and desire and is therefore dishonest and is a belief lacking in true self respect as well as a true respect for others. If your god comes first before all others then it is YOU who is mindlessly accumilating "treasures" in this life. Not us. At least our treasures in this life are real.You are just kissing hanks ass!

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I love life, I love humanity.

 

The fact that my life is so short drives me to do as much as I can in life. It's for this reason that I'm a double-major, that I'm teaching a course, that I read up on philosophy, and that I practice writing, drawing, and sculpting whenever I can.

 

I want to live life as best I can and hopefully leave a legacy behind that I can be proud of, and live with enough happiness and contentment that even Death will regret taking me.

 

If Death were anthromorphic, that is.

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Once upon a time, the universe banged into being for no apparent reason and with no apparent purpose.

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  The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life.

 

Please put aside, for now, that I am a Christian... that has nothing to do with this post. Further, let's just say there isn't a God... for argument's sake.

 

Could there be a third option? What if there is something similar to reincarnation? I've heard that a large percentage of the world's population believes in it, there seems to be some fairly credible people that seem to have had 'out of body' experiences (not reincarnation, but perhaps similar), and I understand a noted psychiatrist, Brian Wiess... from a reputable university, wrote a popular book 'Many Minds, Many Masters' that was of one of his clients who needed to work out issues that spontaneously arose, during hypnosis, in her past lives... to the shock of the therapist.

 

A 'Many Minds, Many Masters' link: http://www.epinions.com/content_11592961668

 

Just curious if anyone has read or heard of any other references that seem to prove or disprove this theory.

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Could there be a third option? What if there is something similar to reincarnation?

 

This is something I'm open to, but if it does exist, it wouldn't be exclusive to only one religion or one nation of people. If a soul existed, it would be a type of energy. The last I heard, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, and the laws of physics don't discriminate.

 

However, OBEs have been debunked as chemical reactions in the brain, and have been replicated in laboratory conditions, so they don't prove this exists. Likewise, people can be hypnotized or deluded into believing in their past lives, so I have yet to see solid proof of this. But it would be interesting. If it does exist, I hope to be reborn into an era of reason, logic, and worldwide peace.

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Could there be a third option? What if there is something similar to reincarnation? I

 

:scratch: Perhaps. I have this nagging feeling that I used to be a cockroach living in a sewer.

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