Why would something good hide in darkness?

[Fweethawt]

Free,

 

I know this is totally off the subject, but I would just like to know, before I go ....

 

Why on earth would you pick this :

as your signature???

 

-Dennis

 

I recieved that in an e-mail one day from a friend of mine.

I got a chuckle out of it, and so have some other people.

 

So, to answer your question, I put it there because I think it's sort of funny.

[SOIL]

Free,

 

It looks like you are currently posting something in this thread (probably an answer to my personal question) - so I'll go ahead and start with my answer to yours.

 

First of all - I don't "print" anything - but I sometimes save a full thread to my hard-drive - for offline reading later.

 

In the case of that specific "thread", I am impressed in the way Reach worded some of what she said - I am thinking if I ever start some discussion forum kind of site - I may need to post something along those lines (to keep ex-c's from messing too much with people's minds, you know, or something along those lines -- and I might be able to learn a thing or two from how Reach worded what she has.

 

Also - one of the main reasons I have stayed here so long - is that I wanted to try to understand how ex-c's think - and the posts there, I think are helpful toward that goal.

 

If I don't come back here - I can still re-read that thread offline.

 

-Dennis

[Fweethawt]

Free,

 

It looks like you are currently posting something in this thread (probably an answer to my personal question) - so I'll go ahead and start with my answer to yours.

 

First of all - I don't "print" anything - but I sometimes save a full thread to my hard-drive - for offline reading later.

 

In the case of that specific "thread", I am impressed in the way Reach worded some of what she said - I am thinking if I ever start some discussion forum kind of site - I may need to post something along those lines (to keep ex-c's from messing too much with people's minds, you know, or something along those lines -- and I might be able to learn a thing or two from how Reach worded what she has.

 

Also - one of the main reasons I have stayed here so long - is that I wanted to try to understand how ex-c's think - and the posts there, I think are helpful toward that goal.

 

If I don't come back here - I can still re-read that thread offline.

 

-Dennis

 

My mistake then. When I refreshed the screen which shows who is reading what, it changed from showing that you were viewing that topic, to showing that you were printing that topic.

 

It's good that you found an additional purpose for Reach's words. It is hardly the first time that someone from the Christian faith has taken an idea from an unbeliever and used them to suit their own purpose.

 

Good job.

[SOIL]

My mistake then. When I refreshed the screen which shows who is reading what, it changed from showing that you were viewing that topic, to showing that you were printing that topic....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Free,

 

No you didn't make a mistake (or at least not regarding whether I had clicked on the "print this thread" button <sly grin>) I do that, so all of the posts of a thread will appear together, and then I can save that as a single file.

 

(I just couldn't bear the thought of you thinking you have made a mistake when that is not really the case!)

 

-Dennis

[dogmatically_challenged]

You are starting to see that we don't find your beliefs in bible god reasonable no matter who tries to make it so through torturing logic and good sense.

 

Sorry to see you go SOIL.

 

You have good qualities about you and people have benefited from thier interactions with you even if they don't agree with your tatses in gods.

 

You remind me that there are good people out there who are Christians. I don't have to endorse the bible to know that. I can even be against the bible and still know that there are good people who are Christians out there. Good people can be wrong sometimes.

 

I wish you well. You don't have to be a regular here. Come back when ever you want. There are some who will miss you I bet.

[Fweethawt]

(I just couldn't bear the thought of you thinking you have made a mistake when that is not really the case!)

-Dennis

 

Oh don't sweat it, dear Dennis.

 

I live and learn, as I learn to live.

[SOIL]

Thanks dogmatically_challenged,

 

I'll miss you folks!

[Mythra]

Dennis: just in case you can't stay away, I've been following this thread and wanted to interject just two points:

 

About the "leading of the Holy Spirit" that you claim - explain to us in some kind of coherent terms how you differentiate the holy spirit's leadings and promptings from your own thoughts and conscience?

 

And, (be honest, now) has there ever been a single instance when you were absolutely sure that the Holy Spirit was leading you - maybe into finding a church or something like that - you were absolutely sure - only to find out it was probably just your thoughts doing it?

 

I found the Holy Spirit's leading to be kind of a hide and seek game, with the emphasis on hide.

 

Second: about your comment "there is none righteous, no not one" - taken from Romans chapter 3. (sorry, but if you're gonna quote scripture, you're gonna get scripture back)

 

There were THREE righteous in the bible. (I exclude Jesus, because he was shown to have sinned) Here are the three: Zechariah, Elizabeth, Job.

[Amanda]

Would we need grace if not for god?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm curious to know, if we couldn't use grace in regards to each other?

[Cerise]

I think it probably depend on what you'd mean by "grace".

[Amanda]

I think it probably depend on what you'd mean by "grace".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think grace is the understanding that everyone is doing the best they know how, in the situation they're in, with the coping skills available to them at that time. If they would of known and understood fully that which is better to have done... they would of done that! People make the best choices available to them. How can we be mad or angry with anyone, including ourself, for not doing better than their/our best? Hence, a kind of blanket forgiveness policy.

 

Of course, that does not deminish one's accountability and responsibilities for their actions! Yet by grace, we can refuse to allow it to affect us personally by harboring unforgiveness, often causing resentment, disturbing our internal peace. I believe unforgiveness only hurts ourself... not the other person.

[Kay]

Go ahead and leave this place Dennis.  Never come back.  You are doing nothing at all here except farting around, wasting my time.  You post the same posts, you say the same old song and dance, and you laud you idols like Kreeft and Lewis to the sky.  Personally, I'm tired of it.  Personally, I'm tired of explaining things to you, and pouring my feelings out to you so you can pat me condecendingly on the head and post about how you aren't doing jack all about genocide and it just pains you so much.  FOAD.

 

Once again you've left me with a post full of whining and self-righteousness without ever really answering any questions beyond "I don't know but God is good anyway".  That's not enough.  You haven't really said anything new to me since the day you came here.  Maybe it's time you left and then came back with something to actually say.

 

If you want to go, then go.  I will certainly not stop you.  At this point, I actually wish to encourage you.  Go.

 

Thanks for echoing my thoughts, Cerise.

 

From what I've seen of Dennis' behaviour however, this "I'm leaving now" is just another sad attempt at extracting "don't go, you know how we all love you here" type of comments. I see it all the time with authors of fanfiction after their work is criticized.

 

Last time, Dennis said he'd be so busy he'd only pop in once or twice a week because he was getting divorced.

 

Pardon me if I vacate because I smell a crock of bull.

 

These people don't intend to leave, Cerise. They use it as a diversion and find plenty of excuses to go back on their word.

[Vixentrox]

You really have to wonder about the character of people that KNOWINGLY worship such a foul, bloodthirsty being. Run of the mill Xtians might be excused becuase they don't even read thier bibles, but Dennis knows better.

[NotBlinded]

We each act as we think is appropriate - I am not responsible for what someone else says the Holy Spirit told them to do (unless I encouraged that in some way) - I mainly try to work on keeping my own house in order.

 

-Dennis

By George...I think he's got it!

 

 

 

Hey, I can hope can't I?

[NotBlinded]

I'm curious to know, if we couldn't use grace in regards to each other?

Oh, it was just a thought on how the world might be if not for religion (god).

 

I'm a little weird sometimes!

[Fweethawt]

I'm a little weird sometimes! 

 

Ha!

 

Sometimes?!?

 

She said, "Sometimes."!!!

 

[Amanda]

Oh, it was just a thought on how the world might be if not for religion (god).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree that the world might be better without religion, and more focused on spirituality... and I think ALL things are part of God... so I would not like to see the world without God! But that's my opinion.

[Guest zanzer]

Hi! Noob to this forum.

 

Just wanted to throw in a little to the conversation. When it comes to the Bible, people immediately come to the conclusion that, because it is so wide-spread, it has to be true. What we tend to forget is how easily truth is manipulated. Just because 90% of the people who saw it thought the events Texas Chainsaw Massacre actually happened doesn't make it so.

[MQTA]

I agree that the world might be better without religion,    and more focused on spirituality... and I think ALL things are part of God... so I would not like to see the world without God!    But that's my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Let's start over. Get rid of the Bible, OT & NT. Get rid of the Koran. Get rid of all those books.

 

Oh, I know, Wayne Dyer's books. They'd suffice.

 

and this new site someone found, the Church of Reality.

 

 

Faith makes you Gullible 

 

Another side effect of faith is that it makes you more gullible. We live in a world where deception is common and it's important to figure out who's telling you the truth and who isn't. People need to have good screening mechanisms to survive. You have to be able to test information to see if it's true.

 

When you believe on faith you reprogram your mind to accept information that is untested. It's like having a back door where crooks can sneak in and get you to believe anything they want. All they have to do is cook up a scam and slap a cross on the front of it and Christians are reaching for their wallet.

 

The reason Christians are so gullible is because they have accepted the role of being a follower and doing what their crowd does rather than to think things through themselves. So once they become convinced that their peers are doing it then they are ready to get in on it.

 

Many Christians have also bad mental habits. Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. Christians lean to get comfortable believing in opposite things at the same time. For example it's scientifically clear that life evolved, that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago, and that the universe is vast and is billions of years old. Yet at the same time they believe that God created the universe and that we came from Adam and Eve and that the universe is only 7000 or so years old. To the scientific mind this raises a red flag as the person quickly realizes that both can not be true. But the Christian mind is dulled to the pain of conflicting beliefs and the "this can't be right" reflex isn't triggered.

[MQTA]

One more snip from the same page, then I'm heading to sleep. Anyone else who checked them out find these pages fascinating too?

 

According to the rules of faith based salvation you are saved by faith and not by works. Faith based salvation contemplates virtually unlimited forgiveness for any sins. It is what you believe in that counts, not what you do with your life.

 

Now - I do understand that this isn't a blank check to murder steal and pillage because Jesus will forgive anything. In fact, I'll write up a definition that perhaps Christians will quote on how faith based salvation works. Being saved is sort of like an insurance policy. It covers you if you sin, even if it's a big sin. Just like your insurance policy covers you if you crash your car and kill someone, even if it's your fault. But, like auto insurance, you can't deliberately crash your car knowing that you'll be covered, and if you abuse the coverage they will revoke your insurance. So - I do admit that although salvation is by faith and not by works, you do have to do a little something to show you are really on board with the faith thing. Having said that however, faith by definition is the belief in things that can not be proven, because once it is proven then it's science and no longer faith.

 

What concerns me is that there is this view that there are two worlds. "This World" is the world of science and reality and it is materialistic and physical, full of sex and evolution and black holes, and quantum singularities, logic, reason, space-time, atoms, and gravity. This world is inherently evil and ruled by Satan. This is the world of the Church of Reality.

 

The real claim behind faith based salvation is that you are saved only by giving up reality.

 

Then there's this "other world" which is like a parallel universe with a completely different set of rules. This world is the world where God lives. It is the spiritual world that one can experience through only faith that allows the mind to communicate with this other world. In this other world there is no science. It is the world of miracles where anything and everything is possible. It is the world of "the spirit" that created this physical world as some sort of "test" to see if your soul will find it's way back to the "other world". Those who hear the calling will be rewarding with eternal life in paradise and all other will be tortured forever in Hell.

 

What this implies that there is a reality outside of reality which is in itself a contradiction of terms. It implies that in this alternate reality, if I can call it such, that this is a place where concept like proof and facts don't exist. It is outside of science which is of "this world". In fact, can you even call such a parallel world "real" because such a term is outside the scope of this "other world".

 

 

The spiritual world is completely different from one person to the next. It has properties that are more consistent with imagination than reality.

 

The spiritual world is completely different from one person to the next. It has properties that are more consistent with imagination than reality.

 

So - here's the problem. Billions of people believe in this other world. If there beliefs about this other world were consistent, that is, if everyone who believed in the other world all believed the same thing, then that would be interesting. But the reality is that there is nothing at all consistent about people's experience of the "other world". As it turns out, everyone's other world is completely different than everyone else's other world. So there isn't "an other world" there are billions of other worlds. There are as many other world's as one can imagine. Which raises the question, is there an other world, or is it just our own individual imagination?

 

I believe that it is irresponsible to invent an imaginary world with an imaginary set of rules and try to pass it off as something that is more important than reality itself. I think that it is a sin to call reality evil and that reality is somehow "Satan's World" and that the world of imagination is somehow superior to real reality as it really is.

 

I find it interesting that believers who claim to support moral certainty and criticize non-believers on the basis of "personal reality" are in fact doing the same thing themselves. Believers seem to believe that they can do whatever their imagination makes them think that God is telling them to do and that makes it right. I suppose it would be OK if there really were a God who was really telling them what to do. But if there were a real God telling people what to do then the message from this single source would be consistent. We know that the God of the Christians and the God of the Muslims is not the same God. What is really happening here is that people are expressing their self centered personal realities and trying to justify it by claiming that an outside divine power is speaking through them when the reality is - they are at best just fooling themselves. We realists contend that impersonating a deity is dishonest and irresponsible.

[All Gods Fail]

Hi!  Noob to this forum.

 

Just wanted to throw in a little to the conversation.  When it comes to the Bible, people immediately come to the conclusion that, because it is so wide-spread, it has to be true.  What we tend to forget is how easily truth is manipulated.  Just because 90% of the people who saw it thought the events Texas Chainsaw Massacre actually happened doesn't make it so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Great observation, 'Noob'! Same with Blair Witch, for that matter.

[All Gods Fail]

C.S. Lewis is a convincing apologist - if you already believe. I was a huge devotee of Lewis when I was a xtian, and pored over just about everything he wrote, fiction & non-fiction. I felt he was the only one who 'got it'.

 

Now that I don't believe, I say Lewis was a good man who nevertheless deceived himself. His apologetics are amazing displays of linguistic contortion that showed an amazing mind trying to make logic and rationality fit into superstition and nonsense.

 

In the end, I think it was a terrible waste.