Fear Of Ghosts

[Comanche]

I mentioned in my testimony that I still have a hard time convincing myself that ghosts aren't real. I didn't mention that I have a pretty delibitating fear of them.

 

I read parts of Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World, which helped more than I ever thought it would. It really put things into perspective and gave me knowledge to cling to instead of pandering to my fears of the nonexistent. However, it hasn't completely taken the fear away. Last night, my father made an offhand comment about my bedroom being "haunted." I know he didn't mean anything serious by it - it's windy this time of year and the windows rattle pretty loudly - but I couldn't help getting an inkling of fear. This fear grew during the night, exponentially so after I went to bed. By midnight I was close to hyperventillating and crying.

 

I ended up losing about an hour of sleep watching TV and calming myself down. Even by the time I was able to get to sleep it was still in the back of my mind. This isn't the first time it's happened, though it's usually the worst in unfamiliar places, like hotels. I get thinking, start imagining things, and before I know it I'm scared shitless and curled in a fetal position. I've mentioned my phobia in passing to my parents, but they don't know the full extent of my fears.

 

I really don't know how to get a handle on this. It was a belief I so firmly ingrained in myself from childhood that I'm have no idea how I can rationalize with myself to stamp it out. On the reasonable side I know it's not real, but I'm still terrified on the instinctual level. It seems kind of like this is the alternative to never having the slightest fear of hell.

[Skiergirl24]

I hear you. I don't believe in supernatural things but I get freakd out when I rean that stuff. There are things that are unexplainable...yet. My BF laughs at me because I love to watch scary movies but, I cower and hide my face during scary parts,then have nightmares. The remake of Dawn of the dead was on last night and he came out of the shower and scared the crap out of me...I almost fell off the bed!!!

[Piprus]

Ummm, yep...I can sure relate to those feelings. But of course, after day upon day of repeating to yourself that ghosts are not real, and living real life day by day, those primitive and unfounded fears do pass away, like...ghosts. At the end of the day, such concepts might be exciting, and when you've reached a real grasp of the scheme of things, ghosts might still retain some capacity to entertain, as in a good "ghost-story" movie or book. But in the real world view...not real.

[white_raven23]

People can tell you "there's no such thing as ghosts" until they are blue in the face.

The reality or un-reality of ghosts is not what you are dealing with, but the emotions the thought of them cause.

 

So I have an idea. We could call it the "Sixth Sense" reaction.

 

First. Assume the ghost is real.

 

Don't waste brainspace telling yourself it's not, your subconscious has decided the proper reaction to this denial is to flood you with adrenaline. How many movies have you seen where the denial of something is immediately followed by evidence of, and possibly the demise of the denier? Right.

 

We are going to follow movie rules for this. So assume the ghost is real.

 

Second. What does that mean? If the ghost is real...why is it here? Hiding under the covers cannot possibly be an effective means of hiding from a ghost can it? And if a ghost used to be a person, then there must be some amount of personality attached to this ghost. What do they need? Ask!

 

Seriously...ask the ghost what it needs. Ask who it is.

 

Your previous solution of avoiding the ghost, or denying the ghost's existence sure hasn't worked, and has instead kept you awake at night. Regular problems don't go away when you ignore them, so why should Irregular problems?

 

While you wait for a response...remember, the ghost used to be a person. How long have they been stuck in your room anyway? Must be a long time. And your bedroom can't be all that interesting. Try to make friends. It's an impromptu sleepover party! Tell it about life beyond your room, with plenty of pauses to give it a chance to comment, maybe get up the courage to tell you what it wants.

 

Try this, and tell us what happens.

 

(Don't be surprised if you wind up waking up in the morning after talking yourself to sleep)

[Piprus]

People can tell you "there's no such thing as ghosts" until they are blue in the face.

The reality or un-reality of ghosts is not what you are dealing with, but the emotions the thought of them cause.

 

So I have an idea. We could call it the "Sixth Sense" reaction.

 

First. Assume the ghost is real.

 

Don't waste brainspace telling yourself it's not, your subconscious has decided the proper reaction to this denial is to flood you with adrenaline. How many movies have you seen where the denial of something is immediately followed by evidence of, and possibly the demise of the denier? Right.

 

We are going to follow movie rules for this. So assume the ghost is real.

 

Second. What does that mean? If the ghost is real...why is it here? Hiding under the covers cannot possibly be an effective means of hiding from a ghost can it? And if a ghost used to be a person, then there must be some amount of personality attached to this ghost. What do they need? Ask!

 

Seriously...ask the ghost what it needs. Ask who it is.

 

Your previous solution of avoiding the ghost, or denying the ghost's existence sure hasn't worked, and has instead kept you awake at night. Regular problems don't go away when you ignore them, so why should Irregular problems?

 

While you wait for a response...remember, the ghost used to be a person. How long have they been stuck in your room anyway? Must be a long time. And your bedroom can't be all that interesting. Try to make friends. It's an impromptu sleepover party! Tell it about life beyond your room, with plenty of pauses to give it a chance to comment, maybe get up the courage to tell you what it wants.

 

Try this, and tell us what happens.

 

(Don't be surprised if you wind up waking up in the morning after talking yourself to sleep)

...And when you've gone through all that, remind yourself that it was a ghost that screwed Little Virgin Mary, and came up with...(cough, clear throat) THE SON 'O GAWD!

 

Damn...ghosts are pretty important, yes?...

[Comanche]

People can tell you "there's no such thing as ghosts" until they are blue in the face.

The reality or un-reality of ghosts is not what you are dealing with, but the emotions the thought of them cause.

 

So I have an idea. We could call it the "Sixth Sense" reaction.

 

That actually makes a lot of sense. The Sixth Sense has helped me before. It taught me to not assume that whatever I was scared of was malevolent (though I can honestly say that talking to a bee isn't going to get you very far).

 

I'll try this out the next time the feeling comes about. It doesn't happen every night, so I never really know when to expect it unless something happens during the day that prompts it. We'll see how it goes tonight.

 

...And when you've gone through all that, remind yourself that it was a ghost that screwed Little Virgin Mary, and came up with...(cough, clear throat) THE SON 'O GAWD!

 

(cough) Bu' that'a one was deeeviiiiiine, dontcha know...

[Grandpa Harley]

If ghosts exist (and I've seen no convincing proof either way on that, although I've seen some strange things) then I'd say the dead are the least of our worries...

 

And an acquaintance of mine, who is a CofE exorcist once told me a formula that has served him as well as it has man since the dawn of speech....old when the stones of Babylon were laid....

 

breath in deep and state aloud, with as much confidence and anger as you can muster 'OK, you've had your fun, now fuck off and leave me be!'

 

and if you think I'm being either sarcastic or joking with you, I've heard that from other 'professionals' who's opinion I would give more credence than most to...

[Guest eejay]

I haven't got a clue as to whether ghosts exist or not. I know I have never seen or heard one. Never 'felt' one or anything like that. Even if there are ghosts, it is necessary that they be associated with demons? I don't think they are one and the same. I have tried to keep an open mind about it, but I haven't seen enough evidence myself to substantiate that they really exist. However a story does come to mind. A few years back, the company I flew for had an incident/accident in which a federal reserve courier walked into one of our planes propellers and was killed instantly. The plane was obviously grounded for the investigation, and then had to have an engine/prop teardown and inspection. When it eventually did get back on line, a lot of the guys didn't want to fly it, because 'it was haunted'. So...I got stuck with it on my route for a while. I never seen or heard anything that scared me about it, but...it did have an unusual vibration from the prop on that side of the plane and had even gone back to the overhaul facility. Could find nothing wrong with it. Was balanced quite a few times. Vibration, though subtle, was still there. Never saw a ghost though.

[Piprus]

Well, for the sake of argument if nothing else, let us ask, just what is a "ghost" anyway? A leftover of a living thing? What reason do we have to believe that when a life ends that there is any kind of "leftover"? If a "spirit" residue of a living human "haunts" some aspect of this world after the death of the person in question...why? Why, indeed? If there is some kind of life after this, what would be the purpose of some part of that person's hanging out here in this world, when there is another life to be had in the "beyond"? It just doesn't add up. OK, if there are human-being ghosts, are there dog-ghosts? Cat ghosts? Parakeet ghosts? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

End of the day conclusion...until I see one, I'll relegate ghosts to the same realm as Santa Claus.

[pitchu]

I've mentioned my phobia in passing to my parents, but they don't know the full extent of my fears.

 

Maybe it's time you leveled with them, Comanche.

 

Here's my guess:

 

You're such a high-performing and "together" 14-y-o girl that it doesn't occur to your parents you could truly be so incapacitated by these fears. You so much like being high-performing and "together" in their eyes that you don't want to risk shattering their image of you, especially not knowing what the relationship between you and your parents would then be like, whether you could all handle it, whether you'd ever get that relationship back into the balance which makes you all happy.

 

I may be totally off-base, in which case, ignore me. But if there's anything you can recognize in what I'm guessing, that means you have good parents who are very approachable, and will be attentive to your full explanation not only about the ghosts, but about your apprehension in sharing this information with them. Then, they may be able to help the daughter whom they understand better and certainly love more than anyone in these forums does (not to denigrate Wonderful Us , you understand -- we're great -- we're just not your parents).

[Comanche]

I've mentioned my phobia in passing to my parents, but they don't know the full extent of my fears.

 

Maybe it's time you leveled with them, Comanche.

 

Here's my guess:

 

You're such a high-performing and "together" 14-y-o girl that it doesn't occur to your parents you could truly be so incapacitated by these fears. You so much like being high-performing and "together" in their eyes that you don't want to risk shattering their image of you, especially not knowing what the relationship between you and your parents would then be like, whether you could all handle it, whether you'd ever get that relationship back into the balance which makes you all happy.

 

I may be totally off-base, in which case, ignore me. But if there's anything you can recognize in what I'm guessing, that means you have good parents who are very approachable, and will be attentive to your full explanation not only about the ghosts, but about your apprehension in sharing this information with them. Then, they may be able to help the daughter whom they understand better and certainly love more than anyone in these forums does (not to denigrate Wonderful Us , you understand -- we're great -- we're just not your parents).

 

I think you've really hit the nail on the head, actually. I'm at a point in my life where I'm finding out a lot about myself that is going to take a while to accept. The thing is, I'm so sensitive to other's feelings, not just about me, that I have trouble hoisting things on people that I feel they could go without knowing. I probably will approach them in time - maybe not tomorrow or particularly soon, but eventually.

 

The thing I'm worried about is that they'll hear "delibitating fear" and think "counseling." I've been to counseling before (for reasons I'd rather not go into here) and it was one of the most...invasive, in your face things I've ever experienced. I'm such a shy person that for me counseling is a scare tactic. Being "together" is something I feel I have going for me, and to gamble that on admitting something I've alluded to for years is a risk that will be hard to take, but a risk that I know I will take if it becomes totally unmanageable. Honestly, admitting it here is sort of a small step towards being able to admit it out loud when the time comes.

 

 

As for the discussion going on about evidence...my fear actually came about as a toddler when I saw something in the same place repeatedly. My memory is fuzzy (thinking about it is one of the triggers for the rough nights) but I do remember that I suddenly felt like I was being surrouned by malice, and a small, shadowy figure walking by me. To this a still have no answer, but I figure I saw a whole lot of stuff I would laugh at today as a toddler. After that I would randomly have the same feeling in different places, and I would believe it with everything in my being, to the point that it just kept adding and adding on.

 

One of the parts of Sagan's book that has really helped me is his explanation of where the word "demon" came from, which is the Greek word for "knowledge." Whenever I start to get the feeling it stamps it down quite a lot when I turn the images of evil beings in my mind into the reality behind the face the Church has put on it. I tell myself that the only "demon" in the world is truth, from which I have nothing to fear.

[Vendredie]

comanche I have the same problem you do. To me it doesn't matter whether ghosts exist, it matters that I'm not scared of them and they don't bother me. Which is why I still sleep with my light on (which makes it harder for me to sleep). Sometimes even then I'm worried some zombie-ghost thing (Jesus? ) is going to pop out of the wall and attempt to stab/strangle me. (this seems to happen to everyone in all of the horror movies I watch... which is why I don't watch scary movies like that, they're too real when stuff like that happens.)

[SWIM]

Fear of ghosts, is actually a fear of the unknown imo. We fear the unknown due to an instinctive survival mechanism. Of course, since we do NOT understand a thing, we therefore "fear" it. This is because on a primitive survival level, since we have no logical understanding of a thing, we don't know that it can "harm" us or not.

 

But, on a more intellectual level, a ghost "should" be a welcome/desired experience. Why? Well, it would prove to you, or inspire you, that life does possibly survive death, or that there are cosmic laws existing we are not aware of, laws in a science frame point, not religious (of course).

 

However, instinct is a *very* powerful thing, not easily overcome.

 

Many ghost stories that ring true seem to occur on a mental level, rather then a physical one. Without going into detail, there have been a few moments in my life that could be rightly defined as "ghost" stories. These occurrences DO have several real-world theoretical explanations, so using them as "personal" proof of life surviving death, which I once held, is not a proper or logical assumption. However, it DOES slap us into the reality that we do not understand "all" there is in "life the universes and everything".

 

If you have one, ghost encounter that is, don't draw snap conclusions. Use it as a springboard to learn even more about yourself, mind and the world around you. Stay a walking question mark, not a walking answer.

 

[pitchu]

I tell myself that the only "demon" in the world is truth, from which I have nothing to fear.

 

Comanche, I get the feeling you're extremely self-insightful, even with your recognition that you have much to learn about yourself. We all do, you know. That never stops.

 

I understand that counseling can be an extremely invasive experience, and not always helpful, especially if the therapist isn't trained in and sensitive to dealing with a person of high creativity, which I gather describes you. Bad therapy can, in leveling out quotidian behavior, lay waste to the inner world from which a creative person draws. An artist or writer doesn't have to be a little neurotic, but it helps.

 

I've always believed that the most outstanding literature can come from writing what you fear. Have you thought about writing ghost stories..?

[Comanche]

Which is why I still sleep with my light on (which makes it harder for me to sleep).

 

Pssst, nightlights make it a little easier to sleep. They're still pretty bright, and throw a lot of shadows, but at least it's not total darkness.

 

If you have one, ghost encounter that is, don't draw snap conclusions. Use it as a springboard to learn even more about yourself, mind and the world around you. Stay a walking question mark, not a walking answer.

 

That's pretty much the only thing you can be with these types of things. It's just as instincual for me to search for rational conclusions, but I'm reserved to staying curious about things that have yet to be explained.

 

 

An artist or writer doesn't have to be a little neurotic, but it helps.

 

I've always believed that the most outstanding literature can come from writing what you fear. Have you thought about writing ghost stories..?

 

I won't deny that I am a little neurotic when it comes to writing. It's why poetry is so easy for me - I can pick out the right words and the right rhythm just by going through only semi-relevant words in my head.

 

I've written some ghost stories, yes. They're usually very Poe-esque, owing to the very stylistic, vague writing style I use for them.

 

 

Last night was pretty uneventful. I did the asking questions thing, and it seemed to make it all very trivial - "Oh, wait, it's basically just talking to an invisible person!" - to the point that it was only slightly disconcerting. I think by the time I got to sleep I was more disconcerted by myself. In any case, I came to the conclusion that the ghost was in fact a hippy who enjoyed Go Fish, Hockey, and grilled salmon.

[godlessgrrl]

Hi Comanche.

 

I hear you, too, about your fears. I used to be petrified of ghosts, and of the dark. I can remember a level of sheer panic about it, so I think it's very brave of you to think about it and post about it and want to figure it out. Facing phobias ain't easy.

 

For some reason I stopped fearing ghosts and darkness when I stopped believing in god. I think it was just that I stopped believing in the supernatural, and started believing that everything in the universe has a material explanation or cause, even if we don't quite know what it is yet. That made it so that "ghosts" were no longer scary, powerful supernatural entities out to get me, and were instead caused or defined by natural phenomena. Doesn't mean that people don't see weird shit, because people do, all the time. I just don't think that "it's a ghost" is any better an explanation for something unknown than "goddidit", and I don't see any reason to look for a supernatural explanation for anything.

 

What's helped me deal with the unknown (whatever it's about, really) is to leap in and deliberately seek out information about it. And ask all kinds of probing questions. Like with ghosts, asking things like "what am I seeing/hearing/feeling? What could be causing this? How could I test for these things, or what would a test for this look like?" But don't just stop there - I've found it really useful to ask things about myself too, like "Why am I afraid of this? What horrible thing do I think is going to happen if a ghost is in the room with me?" Because questions can lead you to key answers about what your fears are, and how to mitigate them.

 

Incidentally, just for shits and giggles, here's a link about one possible explanation for paranormal activity: Paranormal Effects Caused by Ultra Low Frequency Sound Waves (Note that the lead image on that page is a bit creepy, but the article is well worth reading.)

 

For what it's worth, even though I don't have a paralyzing fear of darkness or ghosts anymore, they still creep me out enough to be unsettling. For me that just makes them emotionally interesting - great for use in creative work, for instance. I like to know things, but I love the internal tension of not knowing about something too.

 

Anyhoo. Thanks for posting, and thanks for reading.