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Goodbye Jesus

The Apostle's Neice


Guest Zenobia

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Guest Zenobia

My uncle was a televangelist.

 

No, I'm not kidding. I'm not going to say which one he was, and it isn't that relevant to my personal story anyway. Suffice to say that he brainwashed thousands of people, myself included. I grew up in the most right-wing, judeo-christian, conservative cult you can imagine. We kept Old Testiment dietary laws, went to church on the Judaic Holy Days, and were not allowed to visit doctors because it was seen as a lack of "faith" in God's ability to heal the sick... Women were not allowed to wear makeup lest we become as "Jezabel," cavorting around shamelessly with bells on our toes, swaying our hips too and fro like "pagans."

 

When I was little, it was "spare the rod and spoil the child" - in my case the "rod" was a willow branch, the backside of a brush, a wooden spoon, a belt, just about anything my parents could grab in that split-second of righteous anger to beat the "folly" from my heart. Since my parents were imperfect christians and didn't punish me as much as they really should have, I was also regularly spanked at the christian school they sent me to. Corporal punishment involved a two-foot-long wooden paddle. We would be asked to bend over, grab our ankles and be spanked right in front of our classmates.

 

As a young adult I was sent to "God's College." As a woman, I was taught to be a "meek and quiet spirit" because only then would I be "precious" in the eyes of God. I wore frumpy little pink dresses with lots of lace, braided up my hair, and majored in Theology - not because I really wanted to, but because that was the only subject we were allowed to major in. Of course, only men were supposed to pursue an actual career - and all of them wanted to be ministers in "God's One True Church"TM, so the degree in theology was perfect for them. Women has no other purpose than to be good, supportive little house-fraus for the men, so who cares what kind of degree we had as long as we studied God's Laws and learned our "special" role as converted little women in God's Church. We had special "womens studies" where we were taught how to be obedient and subservient to men, how to cook and clean and other "womenly duties."

 

Of course, being women didn't make us "inferior." No, never! After all, we all have a part in the "body of Christ" - some are the eyes, some are the nose, and some are the asshole and all parts are just as important. That is why even though women wore no makeup, popped out lots of bunnies and spent their days mopping floors - they were just as important as men, who strutted around in suits and ties, slapped each other on the back, and traveled around the world preaching to God's One True Flock ®.

 

There is a lot more to this but I don't want to bore anyone and anyway, I'm working on a book so I don't want to give it all away here :)

 

So, long story short, sometime in my mid-twenties I came to my senses and got myself DisfellowshippedTM. I was sick of being controlled, told how to think, constantly being criticised for my creativity and natural vivaciousness. Being Disfellowshipped meant that I had turned my back on God's Kingdom and gone out "into the World." Naturally, my former church brethren could no longer associate with me, lest they be tainted by the "unclean." So I instantly lost my entire social structure including friends, family and even aquaintences. Gone. Bye-bye.

 

Try being a single girl on your own in the "World" when you have grown up in a sheltered church environment. It's a bit daunting to say the least. But somehow I survived. And now, 20 years later I often wonder how I managed to live through those scary, lonely times.

 

The times are, unfortunately, still lonely even though I am married now (to an agnostic) and have a few friends who accept me as I am. But that's just the challenge, isn't it? Finding people who accept you as you are.

 

I was looking forward to freedom when I left the Church. I naively thought that outside of the Church, life would be different and I would find people who thought like I did, who were free-thinking and accepting, non-judgemental, and open-minded. But I was in for a shock. I soon found out that most people are bound to religions just as strict and narrow as the one I came out of. They are just as judgemental, hypocritical, and shallow and all of them believe they belong to "God's One True Church"TM! What a disapointment. It turned out that open minded, honest people who really are searching for TRUTH (and I don't mean the bible brand of "truth") are as rare as the proverbial needle in the haystack.

 

So I finally stopped trying to fit in. I am just as outrageous as I feel like being. If people don't like it, then I don't want to associate with them anyway. That may sound harsh - but it's my way of avoiding a lot of heartache. I don't care for pretenses and games of "lets pretend." I am who I am, take it or leave it. Right now I am "pagan" - at least in the sense that I find my spirituality fufilled by Nature. I openly wear a pentacle - not because I believe some pagan god or goddess is listening to my prayers, but because I believe in the symbolism of it.

 

I respect Nature and all of it's mysteries. It has a "divinity" of it's own which is not derived from some almighty "creator." Nature simply IS. WAS. WILL BE. Maybe Nature (and by this I don't just mean Earth - but the entire Universe) truly is the "Alpha and Omega," the Beginning and Ending - except that I don't really believe in "beginnings" and "endings" as such, but rather endless cycles of birth, death, rebirth. Energy and matter constantly changing form in an endless spiral dance.

 

Christians look at Nature and say it is proof of God's existance, because something so vast and complex could only have been "planned." But I look at Nature and think that something so vast and complex could never have been planned by some "supreme being." And in view of the incomprehensible vastness of our universe, of which Earth is nothing more than a tiny speck of dust - why would some Supreme, All-powerful, Almighty Being waste His/Her/It's time with us anyway?? Surely there are more intelligent creatures out there! Better yet, why would He/She/It keep asking for our money???

 

I'm not a scientist, but I enjoy studying astronomy and physics and the more I learn about these things, the more I am in awe of Nature. And the less I believe some cosmic thunderer created it all in 7 days.

 

Anyway, to sum up my "spirituality" I'd like to share a little story about Carl Sagan. As you probably know, Carl Sagan was a famous astronomer who founded SETI (The Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) hosted the TV series "Cosmos" and was a devout atheist. The day Carl Sagan died, years ago, a Christian neighbor of mine couldn't stop gloating over his death. She was positively ecstatic that he had died. And, she was thrilled that now he would spend eternity in hell and suffer for all time. She was so hateful and self-righteous and I was totally taken aback. What did Carl Sagan ever do to hurt her?

 

So I read his book "Contact" (The Movie is great - but the book is even better). In reading this book, I came to see what a deep-thinker Carl Sagan was, what a compassionate heart he had and what a brilliant, open mind he posessed. He was profoundly awed and inspired by the Universe, he revered it almost as though it was god. Only he had the sense to know better. The grand irony here is that Carl Sagan had more spirituality in the dirt under his little toenail than that seething, bitter, black-hearted "christian" woman could ever dream of!

 

So it came to me. Spirituality is not limited TO religion. It is limited BY religion.

 

Twenty years after leaving God's "One True Church" TM, I am a true Jezabel. I wear lots of makeup, let my hair hang loose and wild, and like those wicked daughters of Zion condemned in Isaiah, I am "haughty, and walk with stretched forth neck and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as I go, and making a tinkling with my feet." Yes, I am Jezabel - and I am more spiritual as Jezabel than I ever hoped to be while I was still one of God's little Sheep ®.

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Welcome to the site, good to hear your story.

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Hei, Zenobia! Velkomin til Ex-C! Glad to have you aboard.

 

(Ex-C's resident valkyrie flags down a couple of beefy einherjar and asks them to carry out a fresh keg of mead and another comfy chair)

 

Have you ever read Carl Sagan's masterpiece The Demon-Haunted World? Great book.

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Guest Zenobia
Hei, Zenobia! Velkomin til Ex-C! Glad to have you aboard.

 

(Ex-C's resident valkyrie flags down a couple of beefy einherjar and asks them to carry out a fresh keg of mead and another comfy chair)

 

Have you ever read Carl Sagan's masterpiece The Demon-Haunted World? Great book.

 

Hail and welcome to you as well :)

 

**appreciates the chair and the strapping einherjar** (Looked 'em up in Wikipedia and I gotta say I like this aspect of Norse Mythology. May need to get a couple Einherjar for myself)

 

I have not read that one yet, but I shall make a plan to.

 

Are you truly Norveigian by blood, or is this more your forum persona? I'm curious because my grandfather was a Norweigen immegrant, so I like all things Norse.

 

 

 

 

 

Is ex-christian anything like ex-lax?

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Anyone who quotes Sting is good in my book. ;)

 

Welcome!

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Zenobia!! Hey lady. :woohoo: I thought my dad was nuts, I'm so glad I raised my kids away from this kind of lunacy.

I have such a hard time picturing you as meek or submissive at all. We've torn up the town too many times to ever get that idea. My dad had alot of the same mindset. Women are for keeping house, bearing and raising children and keeping our mouths shut, it was ok for men, even our brothers, to beat us with their fists.

I knew you had a lot of scares and scars from your childhood but holy land of light I didn't think it was that bad. I'm so glad you got out of that life, that girl would not have started a barfight at karoke with me. I like the post church version very much.

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Guest Zenobia
Anyone who quotes Sting is good in my book. ;)

 

Welcome!

 

 

Thanks! I love Sting! Especially that song....

 

And all this time the river flowed

In the falling light of a northern sun

If I had my way I'd take a boat from the river

Men go crazy in congregations

But they only get better

One by one

One by one...

 

...And I noticed you, and others here, quote Carl :) I'm liking it here more already.

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Guest Zenobia
I have such a hard time picturing you as meek or submissive at all. We've torn up the town too many times to ever get that idea.

 

Hey Grrl! Glad you could join too! I'm liking this place more and more.

 

Yeah, I honetly did try hard to be meek and quiet but it just wasn't me. A minister once 'admonished' me - he said "You talk too loud, you gesture too much, you sing too loud, you laugh too loud." He told me I was vain because I loved to sing. I didn't have a proper "converted" attitude. For years I had a hard time even expressing my voice because I had been told it ws a "vanity."

 

Yeah we had some fun times at the karaoke bar. I don't pick fights there anymore though :) I've mellowed out quite a bit in the latst 10 years. Still, I might have to go over to the lion's den sometime and do some verbal "barfighting". Heh... we'll see.

 

Good to see you here - I'd be interested in your story too.

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Guest Zenobia
Welcome to exC Zenobia! :)

I'm glad you've found freedom from religion.

 

Welcome Jincks013 too!

 

Thank you Freepagan! I like your name... and your Carl quote. Yes... freedom is wonderful...

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Welcome, Zenobia!

 

I really enjoyed your story. It's nice to know that even those who are so heavily indoctrinated can break free of religion. Carl Sagan was truly a great man with a huge heart, and anyone who was happy about his death probably deserves to be shackled by their faith. I recommend "Pale Blue Dot," which you can find on YouTube. It's a very moving performance that never fails to bring me to tears.

 

Hope you enjoy it here,

Comanche

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Guest Zenobia
Welcome, Zenobia!

 

I really enjoyed your story. It's nice to know that even those who are so heavily indoctrinated can break free of religion. Carl Sagan was truly a great man with a huge heart, and anyone who was happy about his death probably deserves to be shackled by their faith. I recommend "Pale Blue Dot," which you can find on YouTube. It's a very moving performance that never fails to bring me to tears.

 

Hope you enjoy it here,

Comanche

 

 

Wow, I checked that out at

, and it was so beautiful... That's exactly what I mean by Carl Sagan being a truly spiritual man. That person who was so happy he died, was a bitter, hateful human being who probably had a miserable life. I doubt that Carl would have wished anything but happiness for her in return... how sad.

 

I'm glad you liked my story, thank you for reading.

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Welcome Zenobia! Welcome to the rest of the universe and the freedom to explore it. You have wisely chosen to escape the box that the x-tian church places around us & keeps us from learning truth.

I enjoyed reading your story & wish you all the best in finding your true self in the awesome world that we live in.

 

 

 

elana

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Great story. Sorry you endured such a bizarre childhood, but you seem better than OK now. I want to read the book when it's published. Wouldn't mind looking at those wanton eyes, either :wicked:

 

Welcome.

 

- Chris

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Are you truly Norveigian by blood, or is this more your forum persona? I'm curious because my grandfather was a Norweigen immegrant, so I like all things Norse.

I am indeed of 50% Norwegian descent, courtesy of my maternal grandparents, with Scottish on the paternal side of the family tree (including an Irish-born great-grandmother and a few fiddle-playing alleles in my genes). I also have a strong attachment to Iceland... It's entirely possible that some of my ancestors settled the island a thousand or more years ago.

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Welcome to exC Zenobia! :)

I'm glad you've found freedom from religion.

 

Welcome Jincks013 too!

Thank You!! Its all Zenobia's fault really.. she hauled me away from my comfortable pro-choice feminist board :thanks:

 

Ya Zen.. I think we need to hit the Karoke Scene again when Im back for a fall visit this year. I'll start another thread to detail my sprint away from the clutches of xtianinty but fair warning to all it isn't pretty.

I'm glad you didn't give up signing Zen, that would have been a loss because you have a lovely voice.. I still want a recording of you doing Mack the Knife.

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Guest Zenobia
Welcome Zenobia! Welcome to the rest of the universe and the freedom to explore it. You have wisely chosen to escape the box that the x-tian church places around us & keeps us from learning truth.

I enjoyed reading your story & wish you all the best in finding your true self in the awesome world that we live in.

 

 

 

elana

 

Thank you... I do still have some faith in the world and in humans. They have so much potential, but they screw it up so bad that it gets depressing...

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Guest Zenobia
Great story. Sorry you endured such a bizarre childhood, but you seem better than OK now. I want to read the book when it's published. Wouldn't mind looking at those wanton eyes, either :wicked:

 

Welcome.

 

- Chris

 

My wanton eyes are taken right now by my sweet husband... by I am glad you approve of them :) I go to extra trouble every day to apply my makeup in the most wanton ways I possibly can!! Bwahahahaha!

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I am indeed of 50% Norwegian descent, courtesy of my maternal grandparents, with Scottish on the paternal side of the family tree (including an Irish-born great-grandmother and a few fiddle-playing alleles in my genes). I also have a strong attachment to Iceland... It's entirely possible that some of my ancestors settled the island a thousand or more years ago.

 

Awesome... I hail from King Harold the Fair-Haired myself. He was one of the most feared berzerkers in Viking history, if I studied my history correctly ;-) And on my daddy's side, I come from a long line of Scottish mercenaries. Fortunately, I have just enough Jewish blood to put you on a serious guilt trip, after I plunder your village and rob all the inhabitants ;-)

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Guest Zenobia
I'm glad you didn't give up signing Zen, that would have been a loss because you have a lovely voice.. I still want a recording of you doing Mack the Knife.

 

Thanks Girlfriend... LOL I just sang Mack the Knife last week for the first time in months. The karaoke bar we go to now doesn't do recordings. BUT, I will definately send you a copy of the music I am composing, it will have a lot of my "spirit song" on it.

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Fortunately, I have just enough Jewish blood to put you on a serious guilt trip, after I plunder your village and rob all the inhabitants ;-)

*waah* "That's all right, I'll just sit here and *snif* loot the village all by myself... You could at least finish your lutefisk -- I walked all the way to Oslo for that bag of quicklime..."

 

:funny:

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Guest Zenobia
Fortunately, I have just enough Jewish blood to put you on a serious guilt trip, after I plunder your village and rob all the inhabitants ;-)

*waah* "That's all right, I'll just sit here and *snif* loot the village all by myself... You could at least finish your lutefisk -- I walked all the way to Oslo for that bag of quicklime..."

 

:funny:

 

:lmao: You are a trip, girl. Hey here's one for you - an old family saying of ours:

 

Ten thousand Swedes

Crawling through the weeds

Pursued by ONE DRUNKEN NORWEIGEN!

 

Hahahaha!

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Nice job, Zenobia. I am glad you escaped from your horrendous past life. These stories make me glad their are people who dare to be different and recalcitrant to such deadening, intrusive authority. Live it up and be free, you deserve it.

 

Welcome by the way.

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Guest Zenobia
Nice job, Zenobia. I am glad you escaped from your horrendous past life. These stories make me glad their are people who dare to be different and recalcitrant to such deadening, intrusive authority. Live it up and be free, you deserve it.

 

Welcome by the way.

 

Thank you! It isn't easy being true to myself, though. There is this detestible human trait of wanting to "belong" that I can't totally get rid of. It's like "herd" mentality. Which is probably why I posted on this forum in the first place... I was looking for like-minded people.

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