Confessions Of A Christoholic

[RecoveXM]

make me Harley

 

God bless you.

[Grandpa Harley]

This troll is kind of fun, I'm ashamed to admit.

 

I'm waiting for the flip-flop from "bless you" back to "kiss my ass you two-faced Nazis."

 

I think he deleted those posts earlier... the 'early onset diabetes' post was the closest God bot can get to a real insult without making baby Jesus cry or showing himself for the hypocrite he is

[SWIM]

Believe it or not personal insults don't bother me; in fact they rebound to my credit.

I apologize for my insult to you Swim; it was wrong of me to insult you personally.

 

A ways back Geek brought up the subject of "proof", and a few here have spoken of getting no answer when they spoke to God.

 

So you said "God, prove you exist by speaking to me, or I'll stop believing in you."

 

So very big of you, thank you. Now lets get to it, proof? Faith? OK let's go there.

 

A quote from godisimaginary.com with boldings, and minor additions by me:

 

Just about everyone knows the story of Jesus' death and resurrection. The story is summarized in the Apostles' Creed. Jesus was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day he arose again from the dead. Don't deny, even though you say you are not a fundemental, that you don't believe this, Recov. OK you *might* bite that he never went to hell, but you surely believe the other.

 

There is only one way for Jesus to prove that he rose from the dead. He had to appear to people. Therefore, several different places in the Bible describe Jesus' appearances after his death:

 

• Matthew chapter 28
  
• Mark chapter 16
  
• Luke chapter 24
  
• John Chapter 20 and 21
  

1 Corinthians 15:3-6 provides a nice summary of those passages, as written by Paul:

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
 
THATS a LOT of people claiming to have had the great spook visit!!!

As you can see in this passage, Jesus appeared to hundreds of people a number of different times.

Being like Paul

 

When we look at 1 Corinthians 15:3-6, there is a question that comes to mind -- why did Jesus stop making these appearances? Why isn't Jesus appearing today?

 

It really is odd. Obviously Paul benefitted from a personal meeting with the resurrected Christ. Because of the personal visit, Paul could see for himself the truth of the resurrection, and he could ask Jesus questions.

 

So... Why doesn't Jesus appear to everyone and prove that he is resurrected, just like he appeared to Paul? There is nothing to stop Jesus from materializing in your kitchen tonight to have a personal chat with you. And if you think about it, Jesus really does need to appear to each of us. If Paul needed a personal visit from Jesus to know that Jesus was resurrected, then why wouldn't you?

 

It is an important question for the following reasons:

 

• We are told by the Bible that Jesus appeared to hundreds of people.
  
• We therefore know that it is OK for Jesus to appear to people -- it does not take away their free will, for example -- because it was OK for Jesus to appear to hundreds of other people.
  
• We know that it would be easy for Jesus to appear to everyone all through history, since Jesus is all-powerful and timeless.
  
• We know that, if Jesus did reappear to everyone, it would be incredibly helpful. We could all know, personally, that Jesus is resurrected and that Jesus is God. If Paul (and all the other people in the Bible) needed a personal visit to know that Jesus was resurrected, then why not you and me?
  
• Yet, we all know that Jesus has not appeared to anyone in 2,000 years.
  

In other words, there is nothing stopping Jesus from appearing to you, and several good reasons for him to appear. In addition, Jesus promises that he will appear to you. All that we have to do is pray to Jesus like this: "Dear Jesus, please appear to us, as you did to Paul and the 500 brethren, so that we can see the evidence of your resurrection. In your name we pray, amen." Here is what Jesus has promised us in the Bible:

 

Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

 

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

In John chapter 14:14:

Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

In Matthew 18:19:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus is actually in our midst. So he is right here already, supposedly. Yet when we pray to him to physically materialize, as he did to hundreds of others, nothing happens. Isn't it odd that Nothing happens, given the fact that Jesus promises us that something will happen? Isn't it odd that Nothing happens when, supposedly, Jesus is right here with us already, and materialization would be trivial for him? Isn't it odd that Nothing happens when, supposedly, Jesus was happy to appear to hundreds of others?

 

What you will find, if you think about it, is that the situation we see here is the kind of unambiguous situation described Proof #9. We have created a situation where coincidence cannot "answer" the prayer. The only way for this prayer to be answered is for Jesus to actually, unambiguously, materialize. In this situation, we also know that:

 

1. It is trivial for Jesus to materialize
   
2. There would be many benefits if Jesus did materialize
   
3. Jesus has supposedly materialized to other human beings
   
4. Jesus has promised to answer our prayer that he materialize
   

How do we explain the fact that this prayer goes unanswered, no matter who prays, despite Jesus' promise that he will answer our prayers?

 

As you think about this, you will realize that Paul's story in the Bible is false. Simply look at Paul's story like any judge in a courtroom would. What Paul's story in 1 Cor 15 is suggesting is entirely unprecedented - a man dead three days with mortal wounds came back to life. Yet there is no evidence that it is true, and there are many alternative explanations for what Paul is saying. Paul could be fabricating the story, Paul could have hallucinated or dreamed the meeting, Paul could have seen an imposter, etc. In addition, no one is seeing Jesus today, even though it would be trivial and obvious for Jesus to appear to people today just like he did with Paul, and Jesus promises in the Bible that he will answer our prayers.

 

What about Jesus' famous statement in the Bible, "Happy are those who have not seen yet still believe"? What you realize is that this statement creates the perfect cover for a scam. Let's say you are Jesus, you are a normal human being, you realize that you are going to die (everybody does) and you want to cover for this fact. Here is what you would say: "Happy are those who have not seen yet still believe." What you are saying is, "the way I am going to show you that I exist is by not showing that I exist." For every other object in the universe, the way that we know it exists is because the object provides evidence of its existence. If there is no evidence for an object's existence, we call it imaginary (e.g. Leprechauns). But with Jesus, the lack of evidence is turned into evidence. Quite clever, but obviously a scam.

 

If the resurrection were true, then Jesus would be answering prayers as he promises in the Bible. He would appear when people pray to see him. The reason why he does not appear is simple: Both Jesus and God are imaginary.

 

 

 

 

Here is the page http://godisimaginary.com/i50.htm

 

And I most certainly will not paste the entire site here, but this one area was very pertainant to your position on appearances.

 

What if your prayer had been answered?

BOOM there he is, towering like Everest - and he says

"Do you believe in me now?"

 

Let me guess your reply.

 

Unfortunately for you this is the worst thing that could have happened to you, because you didn't believe out of "faith" you had to be COMPELLED by proof.

You didn't believe out of "free will" - your choice was taken away from you - at your request.

 

Nope this is not how I would reply. We have no freewill anyway, just go try and rob a liquior store and see if you get away with it. Jesus is "supposed" to appear according to the doctrine. FAITH was not REQUIRED of Paul or all those others. PROOF was aledgedly given.

 

I cry bullshit!

 

Truly blessed are those who believe without proof.

Like the friend who says "I know you didn't do that." if you are accused of a vile act you didn't commit.

You're blessed indeed with friends like that, are you not?

 

Truly delusioned are those that blindly believe without some reasonable purpose, let alone... proof... They alter their lives, and do unspeakable horrors in the name of their "fairy god mother, or santa clause, or <insert any fictional character>" in order to buy their way into heaven. Or FEAR their way out of hell.

 

Truth be known, they know, as you know already, it's all a lie, it's all delusion, it is there to sooth your fear of death, and it's there because someone planted it in you. It's there because religion has so well served those that control and spread it very well.

 

Faith that the sun will come up is rational faith. Faith that the world is flat (some really did) or faith that the world is 6000 years old, (some still do) or faith that one being can cognatively govern limitless cosmos, for the sake of one pale blue dot is irrational and delusional.

unfortunately there are those who wouldn't be fazed even by the appearance of God.

Somewhere along the line their spirit went dark, and proof would only send them into a headlong attempt to escape.

Why?

Because they accept no authority but their own; they lust to do whatever they want, when they want.

 

So you wouldn't be "fazed" by an appearance of god? Hmmm... bwbwbahahahahahahaha yeah right....

 

So, here we are at morals.

Biblical morals? (I don't really have to pull out all the incest, rape etc etc from the book do I?) If you are such an ASSHAT that you *need* a religion to tell you not to be a dickwad, you are in sad, very sad, shape.

 

Albert Einstein once sair "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

 

Which is why - thank goodness - we have police and jails and prisons.

 

So God didn't hop to when you requested him to appear?

He did so for your sake.

Get over it.

 

The jails are filled with christians, and the italian mafia has always been traditionally catholic. So what's your point? You think "prisons" are filled with atheists? Look at all the nice crosses tattoos on some inmates on tv sometimes, news footage or documentaries, not drama.

 

He did not do anything for you or me, now or ever. And deep inside you know it too. God does nothing because GOD does not even exist.

 

So you get over it. And, for your sake, before you do too much damage to your life.

[Ouroboros]

Believe it or not personal insults don't bother me; in fact they rebound to my credit.

I apologize for my insult to you Swim; it was wrong of me to insult you personally.

 

A ways back Geek brought up the subject of "proof", and a few here have spoken of getting no answer when they spoke to God.

 

So you said "God, prove you exist by speaking to me, or I'll stop believing in you."

What if your prayer had been answered?

BOOM there he is, towering like Everest - and he says

"Do you believe in me now?"

 

Let me guess your reply.

 

Unfortunately for you this is the worst thing that could have happened to you, because you didn't believe out of "faith" you had to be COMPELLED by proof.

You didn't believe out of "free will" - your choice was taken away from you - at your request.

No, it would strengthen the concept of Free Will. You can still chose, but not your choice is based on something tangible. You can't chose to believe in fairy tales. It's not that easy.

 

Either you have belief, or you don't. When you don't, you don't get it just by someone like you argue for it. If I'd change my mind and started to believe because you convinced me through arguments and reason, wouldn't that mean also that I don't believe from the right reasons? Shouldn't believe be belief for the sake of believing? Not for reason, and according to you, not for miracles? Fascinating then that Jesus made so many miracles, since it's counter to the effects he wanted. He should have done no miracles, and had more followers.

 

When I was doubting, I asked God for more faith. I didn't get it. I doubted more over time, and still shouted to God for more faith because I was seriously doubting that he even existed. Still no more faith. And one day it was pretty much over. I didn't feel any belief or faith at all... but I decided in my last attempt to give this now-very-non-responsive-God a last chance, and prayed for faith... still nothing happened... and I'm still waiting.

 

If God would give me faith, I would believe. But I don't have belief in a dream, story, fantasy just because some people think that's the coolest thing that happened to them. You don't believe in Santa Claus, and with good reasons, because you know it's not true. You maybe believed in Santa when you were a kid, but you grew up and now you can't even make yourself believe again, free will or not. The same goes here. I grew up. I realized that the Bible God, Christian version of God, doesn't exist. There might be some other God. The truth could be that God exists, but he is nothing like Christian God at all. And why do I think that? Because Bible says that Christian God will answer all your prayers, but Christians lie about it and say that the Bible doesn't say that, just because they know their Christian God doesn't answer all prayers as the Bible say. It's a big lie, scam, con, and you fell for it, and you still haven't grown up.

 

Truly blessed are those who believe without proof.

Like Thomas? Like Paul? Like the disciples/apostles? All of them supposedly got "proof". So they're not blessed. They were screwed up. God granted them to be cursed, so you could be blessed? Weird...

 

Like the friend who says "I know you didn't do that." if you are accused of a vile act you didn't commit.

You're blessed indeed with friends like that, are you not?

Sure. Trust comes from spending time with someone. How do you spend time with Jesus? Does he talk back to you in a audible voice? Do you gives sit down and watch TV together? What is Jesus' favorite food? Does he like to sleep in on Sunday mornings? Come on... you don't spend time with Jesus as you do with a friend. Unless you got a mental problem...

 

Unfortunately there are those who wouldn't be fazed even by the appearance of God.

So why not let the subject be the one deciding that? Why use cheap excuses?

 

Do you seriously think that if everyone, 100% of humanity, saw miracles and God on a cloud that you would not have one single person converting to Christianity? Only one third of the planet believe in your fantasy, and you seriously think that no one, not one single soul, would be saved by God doing something really amazing for everyone to see?

 

Your argument is exactly the same we can use for any other religion. You don't believe in Islam, and your reason is probably because you think it's a false religion and a false God. And you know that Allah would never do a miracle to try to convert you, since you obviously would not be convinced if Allah did a miracle... or?

 

What about if you really saw Santa Claus on a sled, flying over the treetops at Christmas, dropping into chimneys and handing out presents. Would you seriously not believe in Santa if you saw it?

 

Somewhere along the line their spirit went dark, and proof would only send them into a headlong attempt to escape.

Why?

Because they accept no authority but their own; they lust to do whatever they want, when they want.

 

Which is why - thank goodness - we have police and jails and prisons.

Have you checked the statistics on the percentage of Christians in jail? Have you ever heard about an atheist that say "God told me to do this...?"

 

So God didn't hop to when you requested him to appear?

He did so for your sake.

Get over it.

No. He didn't appear because he doesn't exist. That's the simple answer.

 

The same reason why Santa never gives you the presents you put on your wish list.

[Grandpa Harley]

make me Harley

 

God bless you.

 

Non sequitur... make you what? You evidently don't think you can convert me, you're a piss poor chirsitan based on your previous, highly insulting posts... so really you don't have much chance of saving anyone, or presenting a view that anyone here would find more than mildly amusing... How very sad...

 

and the 'God bless you' as a weapon... if you actually believed in a god, then you'd know he could see what you meant by that one line. It's delivered as an insult, not a blessing. It's a mockery of what you claim you believe... so... you have no where else to go and want to tell people you were banned from here...

 

Won't happen. So, you may as well TRY to convert me... convince me of the truth of your faith... impress the fallen.

[chefranden]

what "untenable position" Harley?

 

that Jesus Christ is the son of God?

 

I'm holding that position with ease so far.

 

God bless you.

 

Jesus Christ is the son of God, and savior of humanity

 

Saving humanity from what?

[hereticzero]

make me Harley

 

God bless you.

What are you five years old?

[MathGeek]

Guy still hasn't proven to me how mathematical concepts prove the existence of God. And he thinks I am insulting him.

[hereticzero]

You want me to stick around?

 

How's this-

 

KISS MY ASS YOU TWO FACED NAZI BASTARDS

 

need more?

You should say something with more finesse like 'may god strike you bastards dickless' or something else that is really godly inspired. Your delivery is all wrong, you need much more condemnation in your expletives. Nice rant, though.

[florduh]

RecoveXM, I don't think you have the capability to understand the Bible and Christianity. You certainly don't understand that we are Ex-Christians here, and have "been there, done that" and it didn't work.

 

You are probably in need of some professional help and some good meds.

 

I am quite serious about that, and I hope you do get some help.

[RecoveXM]

Here's three-fer.

 

If God appeared, you wouldn't believe by faith.

If you require proof, you aren't going to get it - just remember it was your choice, your exercise of free will.

 

Bottom line take it or leave it.

 

Harley -

I don't need to save you; I KNOW you.

When the Reaper peers at you you're going to blubber GAWD I DON'T WANNA DIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

 

you're a deathbed conversion if I ever saw one Harley.

 

I can't save a one of your souls - only you can do that.

 

Now as for your "proof" - he won't show himself to prove he exists; he will show himself to those who already have faith.

As he has proved himself to me because I had faith already. Like Paul and Thomas - both fervently believed in God before they had proof.

It matters not a whit if any of you believe me - if I gave you the proof you seek your free will would be gone.

Now some of you could see the Red Sea part and hear God speak from Sinai - and still want to run back to your nice slavery with Pharoah.

If so then with Pharoah is where you belong. To Pharoah you will go.

 

All that reductionist navel-gazing you quoted is pure swamp gas - I know because I have seen PROOF of God.

That's right.

God bless you all - sincerely.

[MathGeek]

Here's three-fer.

 

If God appeared, you wouldn't believe by faith.

If you require proof, you aren't going to get it - just remember it was your choice, your exercise of free will.

 

Bottom line take it or leave it.

 

*snip*

 

Now as for your "proof" - he won't show himself to prove he exists; he will show himself to those who already have faith.

As he has proved himself to me because I had faith already. Like Paul and Thomas - both fervently believed in God before they had proof.

It matters not a whit if any of you believe me - if I gave you the proof you seek your free will would be gone.

Now some of you could see the Red Sea part and hear God speak from Sinai - and still want to run back to your nice slavery with Pharoah.

If so then with Pharoah is where you belong. To Pharoah you will go.

 

All that reductionist navel-gazing you quoted is pure swamp gas - I know because I have seen PROOF of God.

That's right.

God bless you all - sincerely.

 

And right back at ya, Radio. So you have proof, problem is that it is meant for you only. Subjective experience is not enough to verify the existence of a miracle or a deity. Subjective experience is the only thing that gives a deity any credence whatsoever and we here have tried to find it and we never did. We were devout, we were caring, we tried our damnedest to believe and yet it was all in vain. You came here of your volition not because your high-flying friend in the sky led you here. You came here because you want the abuse, you are a sadist plain and simple.

 

It is your choice to do as such.

[Grandpa Harley]

adding sincerely doesn't make it sincere... it just highlights your continued hypocrisy... as to your claim of proof... that's just nonsense, in terms of your previous posts...

 

Truly blessed are those who believe without proof.

 

Ergo, you are not truly blessed if you have proof, by your own logic...

 

So, my conversion... Game?

[Grandpa Harley]

Harley -

I don't need to save you; I KNOW you.

When the Reaper peers at you you're going to blubber GAWD I DON'T WANNA DIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

 

you're a deathbed conversion if I ever saw one Harley.

 

and I've faced death... numerous times. Not converted yet. Nor cried... nor been anything but angry that it was happening before I was finished. Since I'm posting, one can tell it's not taken yet.

 

As to 'knowing' me... I'd remember being bedded by a man, unless you slipped me a roofie...

[Antlerman]

Multiple Choice Quiz:

 

Is the following law from:

 

1. Allah in The Koran

2. Jehovah in The Bible

3. Odin from a primitive, barbaric Norse religion

 

"If two men are fighting together, and the wife of one engages to save her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes the attacker's privates, you shall seize that woman and cleave her hand off of her body, showing no pity to her cries!"

 

Clue, the answer is one of the 3 above. Could it possibly be the Christian God? Let's see what our religion experts answer.

 

Well I don't know about the religion experts or even the "Bible excerpts" - but why not.

According to Norse mythology only those who die in battle go to Valhalla - all others go to Muspell (hell).

Any who interfere with a warrior's salvation should be put to death - the preferred way was binding and throwing them in a slop pit to drown.

For a woman to do so is even worse - her sword hand is removed so she can't be a shield maiden, and she is doomed to Muspell.

Wotan is a fake, so he couldn't possibly be the Christian god.

 

God bless you - nice hassock.

I see no need to give you the bible reference which I'm sure you already know. But solely for the benefit of others who are curious, the reference is Deuteronomy 25:11,

 

"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

 

You're a smart fellow. Too smart to be a genuine fool. You're either a spoofer or a troll, (perhaps someone like Rameous returned?) . In either case, have fun tonight or tomorrow. You won't be long lived. Too tired to deal with your trollage tonight. Consider your folly for a short time. My gift to you.

[RecoveXM]

So it didn't work for you and it's all a big lie.

You were all good and faithful and believed and God threw you out.

I don't think it happened like that.

You have your little pit here so you can jump on Christians - spare me the talk about what nice folks you all are.

Who's a sadist?

Then you get a little more than you bargain for and you're being picked on by the mean old hypocrite!

 

You say it's a lie.

I'm telling you it's NOT.

 

Now none of this would have happened but you all wanted to get a few licks in didn't you? Otherwise this thread would still be sitting up there with me on the end - with my nasty apology.

 

Oh you poor mistreated children. Nighty nite.

 

God bless you.

[Antlerman]

Guy's a troll. Closing topic till later review.