Still Confused...

[Guest mlewis]

I was raised in a Christian family... a big Christian family. You know, raised around people that speak badly of anyone who isn't "saved" and constantly ignoring the good in people if they are not saved. I grew up going to church and everything and for 18 years called myself a Christian. But even as a child I would constantly be thinking, "Do I really believe this?" and my only response was, "I will go to hell if I don't."

I recently began thinking about this more. The ONLY reason I believed (or at least forced myself to believe) was because of fear of hell.

 

Now even though I don't call myself a Christian (though no word will be said to my parents about this until I move out) I still constantly have this fear. I grew up with this fear and it's hard to shake off. I'm afraid that even thinking this way will send me to hell... and I just needed to hear from ex-christians (preferably those that grew up in this religion) and how they helped themselves get rid of this fear.

[florduh]

Welcome. You are now free from Hell.

 

http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9450.htm

 

- Chris

[Mysteries' Child]

Well, I've got a question for you. Please be expansive (in other words, answer with anything and everything you want and everything you know). Also, please be patient. I won't abandon the thread, but it might take anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days for me to carve computer time out of my 'other' job as Mommy-Of-Two-Under-8.

 

This is the question-- or the first question in a relatively short chain-- that made the critical difference in beating the fear of Hell for me. It might work for you, it might not. Tell me if I push too hard with it. OK??

 

WHAT IS HELL??

[xequar]

Welcome indeed, and as one of the members that welcomed me put it, "You are safe here."

 

But trust me, I have an idea where you're at. Oddly enough, part of what calmed my fear of hell was actually thinking of heaven. Consider-Heaven is an ideal setting in which you get to be in the constant presence of, and serve, "god." For eternity.

 

Sure, a lot of Xians will tell you that it's this magical place that will be, well, heaven, utopia, paradise, where you'll want for nothing and all of that sort of thing. But, the entire basis for that claim from Xians stems from the belief that they will be in the presense of god.

 

So what you really end up with, if you think about it, is an eternity of slavery. Heaven's a paradox. Sin is not allowed to exist in heaven, right? But, I'm supposed to be able to have fun and constant joy in heaven, right? Well, I enjoy playing violent videogames from time to time, and I can't imagine any way of spinning Grand Theft Auto 4 to be a Christianity-approved game. Therefore, heaven breaks under the strain of paradox because if I want to play GTA4 in heaven, I can't because it's sin. Besides, what kind of heaven would it be if I couldn't do what I wanted, right?

 

With my lack of faith in heaven, lack of faith in hell wasn't too far away. If heaven doesn't exist, or I have no desire to be there, then hell, which is the counterpoint to heaven, either cannot exist or is actually a desirable place to end up. Surely I could play GTA4 in hell, since sin is the very foundation of hell, right?

 

 

The point of all that rambling is that you have no reason to fear hell, even if it does exist. If heaven were as awesome as it seems, surely that would be the choice everyone made, and there'd be little question of it. It would be like playing "Deal or No Deal," except you knew exactly which case out of the 26 held the $1,000,000. No one would choose the case with only $50,000 in it. Likewise, if heaven is SO wonderful and awesome, no one would ever think of making a different choice.

 

Mlewis, welcome, and you're safe here.

[Piprus]

I was raised in a Christian family... a big Christian family. You know, raised around people that speak badly of anyone who isn't "saved" and constantly ignoring the good in people if they are not saved. I grew up going to church and everything and for 18 years called myself a Christian. But even as a child I would constantly be thinking, "Do I really believe this?" and my only response was, "I will go to hell if I don't."

I recently began thinking about this more. The ONLY reason I believed (or at least forced myself to believe) was because of fear of hell.

 

Now even though I don't call myself a Christian (though no word will be said to my parents about this until I move out) I still constantly have this fear. I grew up with this fear and it's hard to shake off. I'm afraid that even thinking this way will send me to hell... and I just needed to hear from ex-christians (preferably those that grew up in this religion) and how they helped themselves get rid of this fear.

Welcome, indeed, friend...

 

There is nothing to be feared. I grew up with that very same "fear", and I can tell you that it is no more a "real" fear than that of the boogeyman under your bed at night when you were a little kid. Here on the ex-christian site, you'll see a wide variety of people who've left christianity for a variety of reasons, all of them valid. I became a believer, originally, for the very same reasons you did. But I ceased to be a believer because of simple reason and common sense. That was DECADES ago. As an ex-christian, and one who for years has simply lived life for what it is, I can say to you, welcome to reality...welcome to real living, for all its joys, and all of its miseries...It's a mosaic of reality we have to deal with in the here and now, with the powers of interpretation that we have...and it's just fine that way.

 

Welcome...

[Archangel]

WHAT IS HELL??

 

I was always taught to say that "hell" was where there was "the complete absence of the presence of God". Only now do I see the irony.

[Guest Zenobia]

Mlewis... welcome! You are among friends here. All of us have made a conscious choice to leave christinsanity for one reason or another. Reading through other ex-testimonies might be a big help to you, you might find some of the stories really resonate with you.

 

One thing that you may want to ask yourself is: What do you think of those who use fear to control others? Do you think highly of such people? Probably not... Yet, we are supposed to worship "god" for doing the same thing. Would a perfect, all-powerful GOD would be so petty as to torture his creations in hell for all eternity? If you had all the power in the universe, would you?

 

The angry, jealous, hateful GOD I was raised to fear seems just as bad as Satan. What is the difference? They're both petty and get off on torturing people. So I decided I don't believe in either one of them and I've been much happier ever since.

 

I don't know how old you are, but if you are still living with your folks this is probably very difficult for you. You will need to make up your own mind and eventually you'll have the freedom to believe any way you want... I only wish your parents are the supportive kind who will let you choose your own path. But from your words, they don't sound that way. Hang in there...and feel free to post here whenever you are struggling with something.

[Guest LoveAll]

Greetings,

I had friends when I grew up who experienced what you are going through; hiding your true feelings from your family. Your honesty & insight will serve you well, such as the observation about how often Christians ignore the very real good in people who are not of the same beliefs.

As you grow older & mature, you will realize that otherwise well-meaning & loving people have tried their best to brainwash you & fill your head with fearful lies. Please remember in your moments of doubt & fear, the truth is Man created God, not the other way around. Somebody thought once that people would "get" the metaphor "God". You know, God is Love, God is a spirit & can only be worshipped in spirit. In other words God is a verb, not a noun. Unfortunately, most people did not get the metaphor and came to believe in the letter, not the spirit, of religious writing.

You are a natural & valuable part of this world, this universe. You have every right to be here just like the trees & birds & stars. You have nothing to be ashamed about being born human, you are not part of any "original sin."

The truth will set you free, thats for sure. But no one every promised it would be easy or comfortable. Stick to your guns, cowboy!

[Guest Clueless]

I was raised in a Christian family... a big Christian family. You know, raised around people that speak badly of anyone who isn't "saved" and constantly ignoring the good in people if they are not saved. I grew up going to church and everything and for 18 years called myself a Christian. But even as a child I would constantly be thinking, "Do I really believe this?" and my only response was, "I will go to hell if I don't."

I recently began thinking about this more. The ONLY reason I believed (or at least forced myself to believe) was because of fear of hell.

 

Now even though I don't call myself a Christian (though no word will be said to my parents about this until I move out) I still constantly have this fear. I grew up with this fear and it's hard to shake off. I'm afraid that even thinking this way will send me to hell... and I just needed to hear from ex-christians (preferably those that grew up in this religion) and how they helped themselves get rid of this fear.

You are welcome and safe here. I know exactly what you mean when you say you are even scared to think outside the box you´ve been born in. I am impressed that you´ve even come to the point that you are at such a young age. It took me a lot longer and many cycles of backsliding, guilt and repentance to ever get to that point. I guess thats the first step, to even let yourself think critically.

 

Once I started allowing myself to even think about it, it just didn´t make any sense. How could a loving god send the vast majority of his creation to everlasting torture. They tell us that because God is completely just he must send us to hell. One day I just said WTF? How is that just, even for the most vile of sinners. Once I started allowing myself to think (and I had traveled a bit) I noticed that there are a whole lot of really great people in the world who aren´t christians. Is is just to torture them for eternity? And how can I love a god that tells me that I must love him or die? Can I love at the point of a gun? If there is a god, I just dont think he would be like that.

 

They tell us that god doesnt send us to hell but we choose it. WTF? Do you really think that anyone would willing choose hell. Once I traveled a bit I noticed that so much of what we believe is just cultural. Why are the vast majority of the people in Indonesia muslim? Because its their culture. If I was born in Indonesia I would most likely have been a good muslim. If I was born in India, a hindu. Did they make a choice to go to hell? I think not.

 

Keep thinking. They may have your body right now if your still in the house, but don´t let them have your mind. Things might be better in college, unless they make you go to a Baptist college or something. Hang in there, read through the anti-testimonies on this site. At least you will know that people have come from where you are and that you are not alone. Best of luck!

[Mysteries' Child]

WHAT IS HELL??

 

I was always taught to say that "hell" was where there was "the complete absence of the presence of God". Only now do I see the irony.

 

OK. That's a pretty standard answer. Though I couldn't give even that answer during my time to fight this fear (for me, the only answer I had was, "Where sinners are tormented for all eternity." *roll* *rofl*), so far, it works well with the chain of reasoning.

 

Next question in "MC's 'Scared Of Hell' Choose-Your-Own-Adventure-Story":

 

WHAT IS GOD??

[Guest Myers]

WHAT IS HELL??

 

I was always taught to say that "hell" was where there was "the complete absence of the presence of God". Only now do I see the irony.

 

OK. That's a pretty standard answer. Though I couldn't give even that answer during my time to fight this fear (for me, the only answer I had was, "Where sinners are tormented for all eternity." *roll* *rofl*), so far, it works well with the chain of reasoning.

 

Next question in "MC's 'Scared Of Hell' Choose-Your-Own-Adventure-Story":

 

WHAT IS GOD??

 

God is the omniscient diety that plays parent to the world. In the words of Loki (Dogma), "Don't do it and I'll fucking spank you!" Only, God doesn't even love you enough to punish you himself (and inevitably teach you the consequences of your actions), he sends you off to Satan instead, so you can burn in Hell for all of an eternity. What a great parent! Not. Karma is a much better punishment.

 

Enough of my ranting. Does anyone else agree that the only reason Christians still worship blindly, despite all the evidence contrary to their faith, is because they are afraid to die? Let's face it, spending an eternity in Hell is better than not existing. What does it actually mean to die if you live in paradise afterwards?

[Realist]

I think the best way to lose your fear of hell is to read and learn as much as you can from outside the tiny Christian square! Do not forget brainwashing was the critical pivotal factor in your Christian faith! A good example of this I witnessed at a family gathering last Xmas. All my extended family are "born agains." I am the only "black sheep." I heard one say to another he had just read an excellent book on the Muslims and their faith. Guess who the book was written by? A "born again" of course! Would one expect that to be a balanced picture of another faith from a brain washed person?? Viewpoints from within your square are the ONLY reading encouraged as a Christian! Certainly NOT a way of promoting logic development!

 

The 'hell" factor of course is one thing that is hard to disprove in a nutshell - very hard to prove something that does not exist. Your best plan is to study some of the EXCELLENT material now available on some websites - both atheist and skeptic. There are some superb books also by Dawkins, Harris and others. You need first to work on the things that are easily proved incorrect- the Noah's Ark myth - the literal creation account as per the book of Genesis, the large numbers of Bibical contradictions etc. Once you start getting an understanding on some basic issues - you then start thinking. Hey, is this not supposed to be the divine word of God? How can it contain OBVIOUS errors??? The more you read with an enquiring mind in the Bible - the more you start realising WHY you were taught you HAD to had faith to believe something that made absolutely NO sense! Tell me - what other answer COULD they give??

 

The more you look at the Bible from this questioning viewpoint - the more it comes up WAY short! (This was the LAST thing you ever contemplated or were meant to do as a brainwashed Christian.) Talking snakes? Living inside a whale? People living to hundreds of years old? Jesus walking on water? Seas opening up? It goes on and on! Questioning its content was the turning point for me. The whole Bible will eventually take on a completely new look as just a book of period mythology - with some of that mythology being based on unexplainable (and real) events that did occur to people at that time. Then the more you learn - the more the "hell factor" will disappear!

 

I hope it soon becomes easier for you!!

[Realist]

I forgot to put this link up in my posting. Some reasoning here for the case against Hell.

 

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhellisreal.htm

[babysealclubber]

You've already received some great ideas here. What worked for me was immersing myself in this website, as well as reading several others, and following that up with a whole lot of introspection. Eventually it gets easier to overcome the fear, it just takes some time to reject something you've been told is real for your whole life. I know that after a while you'll become more comfortable with a world without hell.

 

Good luck,

-BSC-

[jdog]

Mlewis, it is understandable. As someone who has recently left xianity. I am still going through the transition period. And those thoughts of hell and what if I am wrong do pop in my mind, but because of those very thoughts, I realise how cruel and how brainwashing this religion is. I just wanted to say that this site is helping me tremendously, and the suggestions, advice, the links given are all helping me to put everything in perspective. So I hope you stick around here.

[alpha centauri]

Hello Mlewis, and welcome!

 

I'd say the fear of hell is christianity's not so secret weapon to try and keep people in the fold. And it's a terrible and malicious lie, as well.

 

The very idea of a kind, loving and perfect god sending his imperfect creations to eternal torment and punishment in a lake of fire ... well, that's an evil idea, and one designed to keep people under control via fear.

 

Although christians say its the truth that sets them free, they are ironically accepting a lie.

 

I cannout imagine a superior being sending anyone to hell for eternity, unless that superior being is evil. And who would want to serve someone like that? If this invisible sky king is real, and if half the things the bible attributes to him are true, then he is a cruel, evil, schizophrenic and narcissistic god. He's certainly not perfect and loving. And he would be the type to make people believe a delusion — promising salvation, delivering damnation.

 

Fortunately, this bible god isn't real!

 

The things in the bible are vile, when it comes to a promise of eternal punishment, and they are an insult to the logic, intelligence and reason that nature has endowed us with.

 

Not even Hitler would deserve hell for eternity. If there is a judgment, then he should be made to feel the fear, terror, hopelessness and helplessness of his victims, but not forever. And then, if there is life after death, he should be rehabilitated.

 

The only one who should ever be sentenced to an eternal hell would be the very power that conceived and created this abominable idea. But even that person or entity should be forgiven.

 

If there is any type of higher power/god, I think she/he/it would truly be horrified and offended at the prospect of hell.

 

The prominence of hell in the bible, and among Jesus' teachings, is a massive strike against the truthfulness of the bible, and the words of christ.

 

Hell is a fear tactic that has been used very effectively by christianity since its inception. The founders knew people would see through the lies and contradictions of the bible if they didn't have a very compelling reason to adhere to the dogma.

 

If anyone deserves even a brief stay in hell, it would have to be those who so assuredly wield it as a threat and verbal weapon against others!