I feel insecure about my atheist beliefs

[bluewizard]

Most of them were raised into it.  And yes, it is propaganda, and it's already been proven incorrect by science, but people just ignore it and believe what they want to.

Exactly.  What helped me was research into other religions.  There's a book called "The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read" that goes quite a bit into how Christianity evolved from Paganism.  You should be able to find it on Amazon.com.  It has a red cover, I think.  It's a good start.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How did science prove it incorrect? Evolution? I know the creation story in Genesis isn't true, becasue the plants existed without sunlight, ,which is impossible.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hi, bluewizard. Have you ever gone to the "archives" part of this website? If not, or even if you have, I think you'd appreciate clicking on that and then exploring a lot of the articles on there. You can go to the home page of the website and then to "archives." For example, stuff on biblical contradictions is very clear. Dan Barker has a lot of good things on that, especially about the contradictions in the Easter narratives. There are many contradictions in the bible. So that eliminates fundamentalism. Then once you review the evidence about the resurrection, you discover how weak it is. Check back too over AUB's postings about the historical Jesus. AUB, Mythra and others recently have been discussing the possibility that Jesus is a mythical not historical figure. On the old board (I don't know if you can access it) Rameus had a lot of stuff about that.

 

On the side of science, it's pretty clear that the Bible when interpreted literally makes errors of fact. It talks about the sun moving around the earth, for example - that's true only when you debate perspective, not literally. The sun isn't held by the earth's gravitational field. And so on. In my view, sophisticated Christians who don't interpret the Bible literally fail to give reason why we should bother being Christians. If Christianity isn't useful to explain the world, what is it useful for?

 

That brings you to emotional and psychological powers of Christianity - what you're feeling right now. Everyone has an urge toward idealism, transcendence, creativity, awareness of awe, hope. These things don't require Christianity to be real in your life. If you have leisure, wade through Lucretius' On the Nature of Things. There are many translations. It's kind of dry in places but the jist is a positive philosophy of life, friendship, values, wonder without believing that God is needed to justify all that. Lucretius was an Epicurean who believed that reality is at bottom atoms moving at random through the void. No afterlife, death not to be feared, gods' actions not to be feared.

 

Then there's the big hope that your relationships with people will be real and honest without the overlay of Christian moralizing, witnessing, judgment.

 

That's enough for now, have to start getting dinner on the table! PM me if you want to talk more, bluewizard.

 

Cheers

[Amethyst]

How did science prove it incorrect? Evolution? I know the creation story in Genesis isn't true, becasue the plants existed without sunlight, ,which is impossible.

 

Yes. And also, the finding of the homosexuality gene (and others that make so-called sins really just natural human behaviors determined by genetics). And other things. I think I may have misread the previous post when I said it was propaganda -- if so, I apologize. I thought it was referring to something else. Christianity did evolve from earlier religions, and it can be proven with a few hours of research.

[bluewizard]

Yes.  And also, the finding of the homosexuality gene (and others that make so-called sins really just natural human behaviors determined by genetics).  And other things.  I think I may have misread the previous post when I said it was propaganda -- if so, I apologize.  I thought it was referring to something else.  Christianity did evolve from earlier religions, and it can be proven with a few hours of research.

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Too bad our nation is in the Age of Faith right now instead of reason. I wish we had a freethinker President instead of the past 43 being Christian.

[Amethyst]

Too bad our nation is in the Age of Faith right now instead of reason. I wish we had a freethinker President instead of the past 43 being Christian.

 

Heck, I'd even go for a liberal Christian, or a Universalist. Anything's better than someone like Bush.

[Lunar Shadow]

I can't help it, I've been brainwashed by Christianity and still have some of its dogma in my head and when someone asks me if I want to become a Christian I feel like I'll regret not becoming one.  Like I've been thinking about joining the Church of Satan and something in my mind says they are blasphemous.  I don't know what's wrong.  I need help.  I know religion's fake and not true but I've been brainwashed.  Help please?

 

 

I feel your pain BW... I deconverted officially the end of April on this year. and the first little bit is really gut wrenching but if you can get through that it is well worth is I have found a peace that I have never felt. But I will not lie when I say that there were the lingering thoughts when I did deconvert that I made a mistake and felt the artificial need to go back, but if you can resist the built in brainwash you will find your peace. But I really do feel your pain it won't last forever.

 

 

It also helps if you have some one who is supportive I was lucky enough to have 3 people supporting me (my wife (IVYFAIRY), bro and sis-in-law(who are also on this board) ). so it is a big help if you can get that support.

[bluewizard]

Heck, I'd even go for a liberal Christian, or a Universalist.  Anything's better than someone like Bush.

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What do Liberal Christians believe? What are some liberal Christian churches? And no, I have no support in my new found atheism, my parents don't know, no one does.

[pitchu]

BW, Don't sweat the label. The label, atheist, is relatively meaningless except in terms of refusing to be subsumed in the god-believing or not-knowing or not-committing categories. Being an atheist doesn't mean you have to pursue or practice anything in particular, but it does often mean you have to defend yourself and your self-appointed label from challenges of others and even of yourself. You just may not need to do this now.

 

In my case (and in many cases) years of rejecting, piecemeal, erroneous religious beliefs preceded the recognition of my atheism. You might want to be content with being a "doubter" or "questioner" or some such thing for as long as that label seems to accurately describe where you're at.

 

Then, there may or may not come a day when you'll look back and examine all the steps you've taken and conclusions you've reached and say to yourself, even with some surprise, "Hey! I seem to be an atheist!"

 

Take it easy on yourself.

[Poonis]

Too bad our nation is in the Age of Faith right now instead of reason.  I wish we had a freethinker President instead of the past 43 being Christian.

 

The first six presidents were definately not christians.

[spamandham]

Like I've been thinking about joining the Church of Satan and something in my mind says they are blasphemous.  I don't know what's wrong.  I need help.  I know religion's fake and not true but I've been brainwashed.  Help please?

 

You are going through the adjustment process of getting used to not having simple answers to all your questions. I'm guessing you were raised Christian, since adult converts who subsequently deconvert don't seem to go through this much.

 

Personally, I found philosophy to be of great help during that period, and still enjoy it (though I may arguably still be in that period myself). As others have suggested, study up and learn the history of Christianity. There are excellent resources on this site as well as at positiveatheism and internet infidels. There are some good books on the subject as well; "Who wrote the New Testament..." by Burton Mack, and "The Bible Unearthed..." by Silberman/Finkelstein .

 

But, if you feel like you have to have a fix, I'd lean toward attending a UU church, which can give you a lot of the benefits of a regular church without the dogma.

[a midnight star]

I understand where he is at this point. I have been waffling and going back and forth on this as well for the last 3+ years. Remember I was raised in a house that saw demons everywhere. In my parent's closet, Satan himself in the house to try and kill me (My mother woke me up in the middle of the night to deliver this piece of news), in toys (pokemon ect..), or at the pawn shop.

 

To be honest, after I lost my son, I hated god. I was taught that all witches were satan worshippers. I figured that since god didn't do anything, I would go to his enemy to get revenge. Well, I found out differently, but the thoughts that the "devil and his friends" inhabited my house was still real to me. I'd go to bed and get the chills. This had me questioning going against god. So I played the fence and started posting at EW (an exwitch site), the fear was "what if I am wrong?" What if I am struck down in the middle of a ritual? What if I went to far and my choice was gone? What if? What if?.........

 

I still find myself questioning. And it is not for lack of knowlege or reading. Everytime I take a step towards my way, I get pushed back by fear.

 

You would think that I would have had enough. I don't want to go back. Will the fear really ever go away?

 

So, while I don't have the answers, I hope the knowlege that you are not alone helps.

[pitchu]

a midnight star,

 

What a terrible battle your caregivers bestowed on you. Even though it's not a war of your making, I wish you great strength in vanquishing your tormentors.

[spamandham]

I still find myself questioning. And it is not for lack of knowlege or reading. Everytime I take a step towards my way, I get pushed back by fear.

 

You would think that I would have had enough. I don't want to go back. Will the fear really ever go away?

 

So, while I don't have the answers, I hope the knowlege that you are not alone helps.

 

You're in a tough situation. IMHO, the only way to conquer your fear is to make the demons go away.

 

If you haven't done so already, I encourage you to read Carl Sagan's book, "The Demon Haunted World".

 

I used to fear demons, ghosts, aliens, etc as well, although not to the extent it sounds like you do. The power they have to cause fear goes away once you quit believing they might be real. You have to embrace rationality to dispel credulity and conquer the demons.

[a midnight star]

Ordered it!!! I love amazon!! Thank you.

[Amethyst]

What do Liberal Christians believe? What are some liberal Christian churches? And no, I have no support in my new found atheism, my parents don't know, no one does.

 

It varies based on the person.

 

This is the church I went to just before I deconverted completely.

 

Pilgrim's United Church of Christ

[bluewizard]

I understand where he is at this point. I have been waffling and going back and forth on this as well for the last 3+ years. Remember I was raised in a house that saw demons everywhere. In my parent's closet, Satan himself in the house to try and kill me (My mother woke me up in the middle of the night to deliver this piece of news), in toys (pokemon ect..), or at the pawn shop.

 

To be honest, after I lost my son, I hated god. I was taught that all witches were satan worshippers.  I figured that since god didn't do anything, I would go to his enemy to get revenge. Well, I found out differently, but the thoughts that the "devil and his friends" inhabited my house was still real to me. I'd go to bed and get the chills. This had me questioning going against god. So I played the fence and started posting at EW (an exwitch site), the fear was "what if I am wrong?" What if I am struck down in the middle of a ritual? What if I went to far and my choice was gone? What if? What if?.........

 

I still find myself questioning. And it is not for lack of knowlege or reading. Everytime I take a step towards my way, I get pushed back by fear.

 

You would think that I would have had enough. I don't want to go back. Will the fear really ever go away?

 

So, while I don't have the answers, I hope the knowlege that you are not alone helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still today kept thinking what if Jesus lived and he really was the Savior. I still have problems and it's going to be Hell getting over them, I just wish I could finally become comfortable with my atheist beliefs. I am not going to any God religions either, I'm going to become comfortable with this belief.

[a midnight star]

I am a member of a couple of pagan sites. I have been questioning the existence of "spiritual beings". That is what I need to know if any of it is true. SHOW me. If your real, prove it, show me. So far nobody has answered my call. I don't want to feel something there, that I can put down to my mind seeing what it wants to see. I want to see.

 

Maybe you are trying to take a step to far all at once. How about just sitting back and doing some reading and researching. Prove to yourself that it is all bunk. Don't try to be anything, let that come to you. After searching, and reading, you will come up to your own conclusions.

 

It's like you are saying "I am an atheist because I don't want to believe". Not because you really don't believe. SO go out and prove to yourself. You may be surprised where that journey will lead you. I have been all over the board and now think that I have found that path that is right for me. But I am still trying to prove to myself that it is real, not just that I want it to be real.

 

SOrry this is so long. I get typing and sometimes don't know when to quit.

[pitchu]

I'm going to become comfortable with this belief.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

bluewizard, I hope you'll take a moment to think about what's implicit in this statement. Isn't "forced comfort" a contradiction in terms? And maybe even a very christian approach to maintaining belief?

[bluewizard]

bluewizard, I hope you'll take a moment to think about what's implicit in this statement.  Isn't "forced comfort" a contradiction in terms?  And maybe even a very christian approach to maintaining belief?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I don't want to believe there is a God so maybe I should rethink everything I'm doing. Should I go back to believing in God again? or remain a non-theist? I'm on a journey right now, I don't know where I'll end up, all I know is I'm using reason and trying to decide what is best for me. Maybe the myth of God is good, it may not be true, but the myth is comforting, but maybe I should be realistic and stay the way I am. I dont know. i don't see myself ever going back to Christianity of any form, I just don't like the religion very well. Even the liberal Christian church link sounded too Christian for me. I just don't like the religion well and I don't really know why.

[pitchu]

Well, I don't want to believe there is a God so maybe I should rethink everything I'm doing.  Should I go back to believing in God again? or remain a non-theist?  I'm on a journey right now, I don't know where I'll end up, all I know is I'm using reason and trying to decide what is best for me.  Maybe the myth of God is good, it may not be true, but the myth is comforting, but maybe I should be realistic and stay the way I am. I dont know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For what it's worth, I think you're doing just fine -- you're struggling. To struggle and grapple and feel and think and forever work to refine oneself and to do right is about as human as it gets. Sometimes it hurts and makes us nuts, but it's the process we're stuck with if we're to be fully human. Breathe. You're okay.

[a midnight star]

I agree. Take a breath, relax, and take your time.