DaveL Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Guys, The recent change in position of Anthony Flew, a world acclaimed Atheist Philospher from Atheism to Deism has been trumpeted in the fundy media as a victory for Christians. However I can't see that his shift in position is an endorsement of Chrisitianity as such. Deism by definition is simply: The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=deism Just because one atheist has had a shift in position, doesn't mean we all fall down. But that's the impression I get reading the Chrisitian links to Flew. Deism does not equal Christianity. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976 http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/149/51.0.html Even Flew himself does not think of God in the same terms as Chrisitans. However, give them an inch and they take a mile. Can the Christians really claim this as a win for their cause? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofspong Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Very good point, Thankful. A very common misconception of Christians is that they think they have a copyright on the word "god". What they don't know is that someone mentions god, they're NOT neccessarily reffereing to biblegod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Quite right. I have read a few times, in some newsgroups, the completely demented claim that if an atheist says "Thank god" or something, this "proves" that he believes in the babblical monster and just denies it. Yeah, right. And if I ask fundie boy on what weekdays he runs into his brainwashing lab church, and he answers "every Sunday and Wednesday", he admits to worshipping Odin Allfather (AKA Wotan, --> Wotan's day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I think that SOME in the fundy community are so ignorant of Deism that they believe if someone turns from atheist to a belief in God, that it means "auto" Christian God. I WAS one of those, I had no clue that Einstein was a deist, I thought he claimed the God of Abraham, but he doesn't. I didn't know that Thomas Jefferson was a believer, then axed Pauls epistles then became atheist, nor did I know that Ben Franklin was a deist. They can claim a victory but anyone who is not brainwashed will see through the smoke and mirrors, I do it a little at a time to try and help clear it up. I've told some Christians friends about the Thomas Jefferson bible and they couldn't believe it. The Christian view history books usually, won't mention these little embarrassments. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And people say our country was founded by Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Funny, when I first saw the topic title, I thought it said from Atheist to Dentist. So I though, "so what? You can have any job you want." Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 A freethinker is someone that is not bound by the old religious dogmas and political church culture. But religious people that are still in it, they only see us and them when it comes to atheists, so when someone turns from atheism to deism, they see it as a victory, because their enemy is atheism, and not faith in something. But this only lasts until they meet a deist, then they are enemies and have to be turnt to christian theism. "Yay! Victory again." And then when you are christian, now they want you to become pentecostal christian. Next is tongue speaking penetecostal chrisitian, then it is Kenneth Hagin faith movement instead... and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Actually I know the right answer, Christians should understand this concept, they use it all the time... He was never a true Atheist. (j/k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 The Secular Webs interview with Flew: http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=369 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Sure would fuck up Inpricktus if we all claimed to be deists. Yeah. Creation. Agree. Jesus? Ahh - no. end of discussion. But don't everyone do it. I enjoy watching Neil kick his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Sure would fuck up Inpricktus if we all claimed to be deists. Yeah. Creation. Agree. Jesus? Ahh - no. end of discussion. But don't everyone do it. I enjoy watching Neil kick his ass. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveL Posted July 19, 2005 Author Share Posted July 19, 2005 I get the impression that most Chrisitians wouldn't know a deist from and dentist either. It totally screws up the Xtian habit of categorising non-beleivers into little groups they can malign and demonise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I get the impression that most Chrisitians wouldn't know a deist from and dentist either. It totally screws up the Xtian habit of categorising non-beleivers into little groups they can malign and demonise. Yes! Those Evil Dentists!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isak The Newt Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 evil dentists?? and you have been making me go there every...., err.. once in a while? er... that didnt come out as strong as i would have hoped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Diests are destined for hell most Xtians sect would belive I think. After all, it's still not THIER version of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a midnight star Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 ***I think that SOME in the fundy community are so ignorant of Deism that they believe if someone turns from atheist to a belief in God, that it means "auto" Christian God. ****** I guess they forgot to add the rest. That is why when I speak I use god/desses. See? Plural! ****because their enemy is atheism, and not faith in something.**** I disagree with this statement. The christians still can't get it out of their minds that witches do NOT kill babies, have sex orgies, or worship satan. (OK some do, but not to the point that they are accused of). There have been so many organizations that have gone after witches. Recent ones. The SRA is one. Lets not forget all the "chrisian propaganda" books that are made for this purpose. The satan seller is one of the biggest lies of all times. They hate us witches a whole hell of a lot more than simple atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I don't think it matters what you eat... Oh, you said Deists, not Dietists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I don't think it matters what you eat...Oh, you said Deists, not Dietists... You're on a roll today aren't you? Cat-astrophy and now this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 You're on a roll today aren't you? Cat-astrophy and now this... Sorry, some days I just can't help it... I can be a little goofy sometimes, even though he's considered to be a dog (Goofy). I guess I fall into my own cat-egory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Sorry, some days I just can't help it... I can be a little goofy sometimes, even though he's considered to be a dog (Goofy). I guess I fall into my own cat-egory... No need to apologize...I think you're funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 No need to apologize...I think you're funny! Okey, then I apologize for saying I was sorry... I'm glad that someone laugh at my lame jokes! Yeah, yeah, I know, if this was live and we all were at the same place, you probably would have beaten me up and locked me out by now for all my lame puns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Buffy uses lame puns every time she stakes a vampire...but she's cool. Of course that's just my opinion...when it comes to buffy you know i'm like a trekkie geek, and how often are trekkies considered "cool"? Then I'm really lost, I'm both a Buffy and a Trekki geek... Besides many other shows that I really like, but these two are on the top. Anyone ever watched Space:1999? I loved that show, especially the first season. Sorry, I feel the hijacking spirit is coming over me... umbagala lambala gulambalumba... Maybe should start a "Favorite TV Shows, past and present" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Then I'm really lost, I'm both a Buffy and a Trekki geek... Besides many other shows that I really like, but these two are on the top. Anyone ever watched Space:1999? I loved that show, especially the first season. Sorry, I feel the hijacking spirit is coming over me... umbagala lambala gulambalumba... Maybe should start a "Favorite TV Shows, past and present" ??? Ah, Buffy. Still annoyed that I didn't call the potential Willow/Spike thing right, even though I'm now a Spuffy fic fan. And, yeah, Trek... man, Riker is still hot with that facial hair. Gives good cartoon voice, too. Invader Zim! Kids In The Hall! Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon! (I did it for you, Han. ) And athiesm and deism are just terms for "HEATHEN!" according to Christians. They're just spelled differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Ah, Buffy. Still annoyed that I didn't call the potential Willow/Spike thing right, even though I'm now a Spuffy fic fan. And, yeah, Trek... man, Riker is still hot with that facial hair. Gives good cartoon voice, too. Invader Zim! Kids In The Hall! Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon! (I did it for you, Han. ) And athiesm and deism are just terms for "HEATHEN!" according to Christians. They're just spelled differently. And Monty Python, I pray tell from your Avatar Icon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a midnight star Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Zoe, You are actually bringing up stereo types. Yes, that is the way witches are percieved today, thanks to the christian church. In the bible witches were called evil because: 1. they worshipped different Gods 2. they used majic instead of leaning on god The old midwife who knew the art of herbs were considered witches. The three wise men that followed the star to Jesus' manger were witches. It simply means "wise". ****If we want to get technical though...the original term "witch" is a mythological being...someone who does evil magic and worships the devil. The word "witch" came about during a time of superstition. It was coined to describe bad people, women usually who flew on broomsticks and had evil cats and did evil magic and had sex with the devil.***** Not really. The word witch is used in the OT to describe those cultures that worshipped God/desses other than the jewish god. This just shows how well the propaganda machine worked. Here is the direct translation from hebrew: kashaph kaw-shaf' a primitive root; properly, to whisper a spell, i.e. to inchant or practise magic:--sorcerer, (use) witch(-craft). There is nothing there that describes any of the garbage that has been passed down. Even in their bible nothing is written about witches doing any of the "evil" you described. That was made up long after witches had been around for ages. Of sourse the christian church had to demonize them. 9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. 14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. So, technically, no witches are not mythical, nor are they evil, nor did they EVER do such things. The bible also calls the Egyptians witches. ***Witch could be one of those words...but it takes time for words to gain new meaning.**** No actually, it will take time before the word is restored to it's actual meaning. Wise. The old lady healing with herbs, the midwife, those were witches. You don't have to cast spells to be a witch. ***If you want to avoid stereotypes, avoid using stereotypical language to describe yourself**** If people like me don't stand up and educate those who still think that we fly on brooms ect... and debunk the christian propaganda, then the word will never be restored to it's original meaning. ****On the other side of the fence it makes me look like a little fluffy superstitious person who spends all her time chanting and dancing around a bonfire with the other fluffies.****** You are talking about Wicca. NOt every witch is Wiccan. Wicca is an upstart of an old religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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