Definition of Sin

[Ouroboros]

I don't know if this topic has been up before, I looked but couldn't find one.

 

What is Sin?

 

What is the real definition of Sin?

 

What constitutes as a sinful act?

 

 

According to Genesis, A&E sinned by disobeying God. Yet both believed in God, he was physically present, so their sin was not unbelief.

 

And then Cain and Abel, they both knew there was a God, Cain even spoke with God, but God didn't like his offerings. So his sin was that he didn't please God with his grain offerings instead of blood sacrifice. So his sin was not that he didn't believe in God.

 

When we get to the NT, now suddenly, it's the un-belief in God that is the sin (Paul - Rom), and/or the sinful acts (James).

 

So which way is it?

 

Can you be a believer, and sin and go to hell for it?

 

Can you be an unbeliever and never sin, and go to heaven for it?

 

This kind of go hand in hand with the topic, what you have to do to get saved...

 

But my question is not what saves you, but what is the true definition of sin, does a real definition even exist?

[NotBlinded]

It's just a generic term for "We don't approve of that".

[cerebralchristian]

But my question is not what saves you, but what is the true definition of sin, does a real definition even exist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hello--

 

I think sin is an attitude of the heart that compels a person-- either immediately or eventually-- to distance him/herself from God and God's holiness. I'd also say that, to me, sin is any deviation from or compromise of God's holiness.

 

 

CC

[Vixentrox]

But my question is not what saves you, but what is the true definition of sin, does a real definition even exist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello--

 

I think sin is an attitude of the heart that compels a person-- either immediately or eventually-- to distance him/herself from God and God's holiness. I'd also say that, to me, sin is any deviation from or compromise of God's holiness.

CC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And what acts are those? Are Catholic sins the same as your sins? What about Mormon sins? Muslim sins? ect...

[Mythra]

And what acts are those?  Are Catholic sins the same as your sins?  What about Mormon sins?  Muslim sins?  ect...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The old testament says it's a sin to touch a leper. Jesus says it's a sin to call someone a fool.

 

Oh - wait - retract those.

 

Jesus did both. woops.

 

Nevermind.

[Savedbyfaith]

I don't know if this topic has been up before, I looked but couldn't find one.

 

What is Sin?

 

What is the real definition of Sin?

 

[sBF] The Bible defines sin as transgression of the law.(1 John 3:4)

 

What constitutes as a sinful act?

According to Genesis, A&E sinned by disobeying God. Yet both believed in God, he was physically present, so their sin was not unbelief.

 

[sBF] Just because God stands in your presence doesn't mean you believe in him for eternal life and are willing to obey him. You only believe that he exists. I don't think just because we believe in God that we won't sin. Unbelievers sin agaisnt God with regularity and no conviction; believers sin against God with much less regularity but with conviction, confession and repentance. That's the difference between the two. Look at all the characters in scripture who sinned, yet were believers. God does not expect perfection, even thought the believer is "positionally" perfect in God's eyes.

 

And then Cain and Abel, they both knew there was a God, Cain even spoke with God, but God didn't like his offerings. So his sin was that he didn't please God with his grain offerings instead of blood sacrifice. So his sin was not that he didn't believe in God.

 

[sBF] Same as above

 

When we get to the NT, now suddenly, it's the un-belief in God that is the sin (Paul - Rom), and/or the sinful acts (James).

 

[sBF] Unbelief is the unforgivable sin. If a person chooses not to believe, then there is no forgiveness. He remains, as Paul said, dead in his sins and trangressions (Eph. 2:1). If he believes, God will forgive all his sins and he is made alive in Christ. Jesus used the word believe hundreds of times. "He who believes hath eternal life."

 

So which way is it?

 

Can you be a believer, and sin and go to hell for it?

 

[sBF] No, because the believers sins have been taken away through repentance and faith in Christ. But he will sin occasionally. When he does, he confesses and his sin is forgiven (1 John 1:19). This cleanses him of all unrighteousness.

 

Can you be an unbeliever and never sin, and go to heaven for it?

 

[sBF] It's impossible for a believer not to sin, much less a non-belliever.

 

This kind of go hand in hand with the topic, what you have to do to get saved...

 

[sBF] "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." (Acts 16:31)

 

But my question is not what saves you, but what is the true definition of sin, does a real definition even exist?

 

[sBF] Same as above. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

 

Peace,

savedbyfaith

[I Broke Free]

I think sin is an attitude of the heart that compels a person-- either immediately or eventually-- to distance him/herself from God and God's holiness.  I'd also say that, to me, sin is any deviation from or compromise of God's holiness.

CC

 

 

They way you have defined sin leaves it open to such a wide interpretation that no one can ever be sure if they are sinning or not.

 

Why does the concept of sin always have to be so subjective?

[NotBlinded]

Savedbyfaith,Jul 15 2005, 04:32 PM

 

I don't know if this topic has been up before, I looked but couldn't find one.

 

What is Sin?

 

What is the real definition of Sin?

 

[sBF] The Bible defines sin as transgression of the law.(1 John 3:4)

 

What constitutes as a sinful act?

According to Genesis, A&E sinned by disobeying God. Yet both believed in God, he was physically present, so their sin was not unbelief.

 

[sBF]  Just because God stands in your presence doesn't mean you believe in him for eternal life and are willing to obey him.  You only believe that he exists.  I don't think just because we believe in God that we won't sin.  Unbelievers sin agaisnt God with regularity and no conviction; believers sin against God with much less regularity but with conviction, confession and repentance. That's the difference between the two. Look at all the characters in scripture who sinned, yet were believers.  God does not expect perfection, even thought the believer is "positionally" perfect in God's eyes. 

 

And then Cain and Abel, they both knew there was a God, Cain even spoke with God, but God didn't like his offerings. So his sin was that he didn't please God with his grain offerings instead of blood sacrifice. So his sin was not that he didn't believe in God.

 

[sBF] Same as above

 

When we get to the NT, now suddenly, it's the un-belief in God that is the sin (Paul - Rom), and/or the sinful acts (James).

 

[sBF] Unbelief is the unforgivable sin.  If a person chooses not to believe, then there is no forgiveness.  He remains, as Paul said, dead in his sins and trangressions (Eph. 2:1). If he believes, God will forgive all his sins and he is made alive in Christ.  Jesus used the word believe hundreds of times.  "He who believes hath eternal life."

 

So which way is it?

 

Can you be a believer, and sin and go to hell for it?

 

[sBF] No, because the believers sins have been taken away through repentance and faith in Christ.  But he will sin occasionally.  When he does, he confesses and his sin is forgiven (1 John 1:19).  This cleanses him of all unrighteousness.

 

Can you be an unbeliever and never sin, and go to heaven for it?

 

[sBF]  It's impossible for a believer not to sin, much less a non-belliever.

 

This kind of go hand in hand with the topic, what you have to do to get saved...

 

[sBF] "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." (Acts 16:31)

 

But my question is not what saves you, but what is the true definition of sin, does a real definition even exist?

 

[sBF] Same as above.  Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). 

 

Peace,

savedbyfaith

 

 

 

So...Ghandi goes to hell and Hitler's in heaven. Alrighty then!

[Ouroboros]

The old testament says it's a sin to touch a leper.  Jesus says it's a sin to call someone a fool.

 

Oh - wait - retract those. 

 

Jesus did both.  woops. 

 

Nevermind.

U'r on a roll 2day Mytra!

 

Somehow I think Sin is harder to define than Morals.

And yet many people think that Morals is just the opposite of Sin.

But it's not black and white.

So how can we even claim to be forgiven our sins when we can't make a common definition? And the Bible doesn’t have a perfect explanation either…

 

Can God forgive something that we don’t even know what it is?

[NotBlinded]

So how can we even claim to be forgiven our sins when we can't make a common definition? And the Bible doesn’t have a perfect explanation either…

 

Can God forgive something that we don’t even know what it is?

And, how can we worship a god that has no definition?

[cerebralchristian]

CC:

I think sin is an attitude of the heart that compels a person-- either immediately or eventually-- to distance him/herself from God and God's holiness. I'd also say that, to me, sin is any deviation from or compromise of God's holiness.

CC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Vixentrox:

And what acts are those?

 

CC:

Probably no suprise that I look to scripture as a guide on that. But I am not into Bibli-olatry. The Bible is not my Lord-- God is. I do see a distinction.

 

My daily experience of prayer and communon with God shape my understanding of holiness and righteousnes-- not just the scripture. Also, I think that *common sense* should be a guide in helping me discern what is sin and what is not.

 

Also, in my experience -- or for those of you who would regard God as my imaginary friend -- my *perceived* experience, the closer I grow to God, the better I know God. Over time, I can feel it more quickly in my spirit when I've taken a little step away. You know how it is with your spouse or your parent or someone to whom you're so very close-- all it takes is the tiniest flick of an eyebrow or a subtle shadowing in the eyes to know that you've gotten out of step with him or her.

 

Vixentrox:

Are Catholic sins the same as your sins? What about Mormon sins? Muslim sins? ect...

 

CC:

You would have to ask representatives of Roman Catholic Christianity and of the Mormon religion. They might well say no, but I would say yes. Or yes as in yes, it *should* be so.

 

CC

(I know I have a tendency to answer yes/no questions with both yes and no.)

[cerebralchristian]

So...Ghandi goes to hell and Hitler's in heaven.  Alrighty then!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yikes-- I don't thinks that's the way it works.

 

I don't think recitation of a formulaic prayer will guarantee Heaven. Christ responds to the cry of a sincere heart. A seed is planted. But I believe that whether the seeds takes root and grows is up to the person.

 

CC

[crazy-tiger]

Yikes-- I don't thinks that's the way it works. 

 

I don't think recitation of a formulaic prayer will guarantee Heaven.  Christ responds to the cry of a sincere heart.  A seed is planted.  But I believe that whether the seeds takes root and grows is up to the person.

 

CC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who was talking about reciting a formulaic prayer? Remember, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." (Acts 16:31)

 

That's all you need to do, unless that particular statement happens to be lying...

[Ouroboros]

Ok the conflict of the definition is:

 

You go to hell for not believing in Jesus. - so unbelief is The Sin.

 

But Adam and Eve is going to hell for not Obeying the Law. - Disobediance is The Sin

 

In OT, Sin is the reason why you go to hell, not believing in God or not.

 

In NT, Unbelief is the reason why you go to hell, not sinning or not.

 

 

When a preacher comes an shout "You sinful creaturs of Hades, turn around and believe in Jesus". He doesn't realize that sin in itself has any validity, since that is not what makes you go to hell or not... Right? It's only belief in Jesus that saves according to NT.

 

But if we go back to sin as disobediance, does that include every law in OT, or just a few of them? What is the law, what does it contain? Should you kill a disobediant son to follow the law?

 

And is it possible to add new laws to adjust to our culture, like "it's a sin to read Harry Potter", or like some sects "it's a sin to have curtains in your house", or "it's a sin to smoke and drink"?

 

 

I don't think Christians tend to sin less than non-believers. I think they sin more, because they think more of it.

 

But I have an advantage, since I can't sin. Why? Because I don't have a God that I can sin against. The concept of sin doesn't exist for me. So shouting "you sinner" to me, is like me shouting "you blurbidorg" to a Christian. It wouldn't have any meaning to him, anymore that "sinner" does to me.

[DaveL]

Isn't eating shellfish a sin? It is according to the pranksters at Truechristan.com it is. Check out their take on eating at Red Lobster.

 

http://www.truechristian.com/redlobster.html

 

[cerebralchristian]

Crazy Tiger:

Who was talking about reciting a formulaic prayer? Remember, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." (Acts 16:31)

 

That's all you need to do, unless that particular statement happens to be lying...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

CC:

Well, I do see what you're saying, but I don't view it quite that way. I see being "saved" as a a progressive thing, not an instant flash. The initial belief is a start. It's the first foot forward on the "Narrow Road." But the road is long. Persistence is needed.

 

CC

[Amethyst]

What is Sin?

 

What is the real definition of Sin?

 

What constitutes as a sinful act?

 

From my time spent in a Christian church, it was pretty much anything that was naturally human to do. Enjoying reading books was a sin, especially books that taught you to think for yourself and to use your imagination. I'm sure my mother would've had a fit if Harry Potter had been around at the time and I had been caught reading it.

 

Showing any sign of intelligence was a sin. Questioning authority was a sin. Being smart was a sin (especially if you were a girl). Also being remotely creative was a sin. In fact, pretty much being human guaranteed that you would go to hell unless you literally believed in Jesus 100% (and even THAT was not guaranteed), according to my mother and her fundie church friends.

 

Need I go on?

 

[Ouroboros]

CC:

Well, I do see what you're saying, but I don't view it quite that way.  I see being "saved" as a a progressive thing, not an instant flash.  The initial belief is a start.  It's the first foot forward on the "Narrow Road."  But the road is long.  Persistence is needed.

 

CC

That sounds like the Lutherans I met in Sweden. They also considered the salvation as a lifelong process. And I couldn't accept it then as a fundie, but now I think that is a better answer than instantaneous salvation... better yourself with knowledge and understanding...

[Ouroboros]

From my time spent in a Christian church, it was pretty much anything that was naturally human to do.  Enjoying reading books was a sin, especially books that taught you to think for yourself and to use your imagination.  I'm sure my mother would've had a fit if Harry Potter had been around at the time and I had been caught reading it. 

 

Showing any sign of intelligence was a sin.  Questioning authority was a sin.  Being smart was a sin (especially if you were a girl).  Also being remotely creative was a sin.  In fact, pretty much being human guaranteed that you would go to hell unless you literally believed in Jesus 100% (and even THAT was not guaranteed), according to my mother and her fundie church friends.

 

Need I go on?

 

 

I think that is what was in the back of my head when I started this thread. I'm not quite sure why I did it, just that I didn't clearly remember how it was back then.

 

Sin is defined by

1. disobeying the law in OT

2. not believing in Jesus

3. disobeying instructions in NT

4. disobeying recently revealed "spiritual" rules of our time (like watching porn on TV)

5. doing anything that would give you a bad conscious at the time you do it

6. doing anything that would give your pastor/mom... the "bad feeling that it was a sin"

[cerebralchristian]

From my time spent in a Christian church, it was pretty much anything that was naturally human to do. Enjoying reading books was a sin, especially books that taught you to think for yourself and to use your imagination. I'm sure my mother would've had a fit if Harry Potter had been around at the time and I had been caught reading it.

 

Showing any sign of intelligence was a sin. Questioning authority was a sin. Being smart was a sin (especially if you were a girl). Also being remotely creative was a sin. In fact, pretty much being human guaranteed that you would go to hell unless you literally believed in Jesus 100% (and even THAT was not guaranteed), according to my mother and her fundie church friends.

 

Need I go on?

 

 

Amethyst--

 

That's awful. I shudder that you had to experience such a pessimistic, discouraging, legalistic "Churchianity."

 

CC

[Vixentrox]

And yet, they read the same damn bible you do don't they? Maybe your the one who is wrong. Fall down on your knees and repent heathen, for your surely bound for hellfire with your blasphemous interprutation of holy scripture. Satan has possesed your mind as he'll possess your soul in the lake of ever-burng HELL FIRE! REPENT!

[Amethyst]

Amethyst--

 

That's awful. I shudder that you had to experience such a pessimistic, discouraging, legalistic "Churchianity."

 

Now before you say I didn't go to a True Christian Church , please keep in mind that I tried liberal Christianity as well. The negative experience I had with the ultra-conservative Lutheran church led me to a UCC church, but it was logic that led me out of the dark tunnel of Christianity altogether.

[crazy-tiger]

CC:

Well, I do see what you're saying, but I don't view it quite that way.  I see being "saved" as a a progressive thing, not an instant flash.  The initial belief is a start.  It's the first foot forward on the "Narrow Road."  But the road is long.  Persistence is needed.

 

CC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, believing in Jesus isn't all that's needed?

 

The lie of ommission is still a lie, and you've just turned around and said the Bible lies... (otherwise it would say that you need to do more to be saved)

 

 

Of course, saying that would mean you're a heretic, and heretics get worse treatment after death than plain unbelievers... and there's no way back either. Once a heretic, always a heretic.

 

Now I don't often get a chance to say this, so when I do, I say it with some satisfaction...

 

 

YOU'RE GONNA BURN!!

[Mythra]

Want me to muddy the waters a little more?

 

The bible says that if you know the right thing to do, and you don't do it, THAT IS SIN, TOO.

 

So, sin isn't just doing something wrong. Sometimes sin is doing nothing when you think you should be doing something.

 

I used to ask God's forgiveness for not witnessing to people, when I thought he was telling me to witness to em.

 

Sigh. What a mind control game.

[Fweethawt]

And, how can we worship a god that has no definition?

 

There is a definition.

You just have to look it up in a Deictionary.