Definition of Sin

[Mythra]

It's sad, but it's true, Vigile.

 

You can ask a christian about almost anything. Like, "what do you think about subject X"?

 

And, their answer will be a thinly veiled, "well now, that's an interesting question. According to the Bible"......

[NotBlinded]

Savedbyfaith,Jul 18 2005, 07:37 AM

I said that I loved Jesus my whole life.  No, for the most part it was up.....only when I started getting serious that it was down.  Jesus said lots of things, funny how nothing he said is the truth. 

 

[sBF]  Nothing? 

 

He didn't leave me, he was never there.

 

[sBF]  And this is the way it is for all those who say they were once Christian. He was never in their lives to begin with.  Had you been truly born again, you would never have left him.  He wouldn't let you.  He is always there for anyone who is willing to receive him.  I don't know what caused you to think that you couldn't trust him.

 

Yes, I did leave for whatever reason, bible god is evil and any god/man that threatens eternal torture (the THREAT alone) is not worthy of worship.  If there is a Creator, I refuse to believe that that the bible represents it.

 

[sBF]  Again, you can't leave something you never had. The wages of sin is death.  Jesus is only showing us how to avoid eternal punishment.  He was willing to take the punishment we deserve so that we could escape hell. 

 

According to the Bible, god brings pain and death.  My grandparents not being healed by god despite DECADES of believing Christians praying for them, only adds to my justification that the bible is false.

 

[sBF]  God allows pain and death which was brought into the world by the curse.  Man rebelled against God; God did not rebel against man.  Our problem is that we don't think God is holy.

 

I'm not having a problem "reconciling" scripture, I get it just fine, thanks.

 

[sBF] I think if you "get it just fine," you would have taken Jesus at his word and let him be your Savior.  Everything is not fine because you will not let him forgive you of your sins.  You are the obstacle, not Jesus.

 

Well, biblegod and the christian jesus are two of the biggest liars ever.  If I promised my children and broke them as many times as both of them have, they justifiably have no reason to ever trust anything I say.

 

[sBF]  Do you think your grandparents were the only ones who suffered?  We must realize that pain, suffering and death are part of life.  We all hurt, we all suffer, and we all die.  That's is not God's fault.  He only wants to give us what was lost.  It's sad that people will not let Jesus do what he promises.  He is not the problem. He only wants to restore and rebuild our lives.  He will if we will let him.  You can remain angry and unbelieving if you want, but I tell you that Jesus will heal your anger and unbelief if you will let him. 

 

Besides, if biblegod is true, (I'm not worried about Christ because that myth has zero to do with biblegod) I'd rather fry in hell for all eternity than spend it with such a monster.

 

[sBF]  I would urge you to rethink this.

 

No, your god doesn't exist, so he doesn't love me.

 

[sBF] He exists and he does love you.  The displeasure  you have for God has been genereated by you in your own heart.  Don't blame him.

 

Peace,

Savedbyfaith

 

I'm sorry everyone, but this is starting to grate on my nerves. I am really sick of christians demeaning humankind for some kind of imaginery sin. We are not born sinful...you need to come down off your cross you poor, pitiful, crucified christian.

[Savedbyfaith]

I am a deist SBF, I don't believe in your bible. There is nothing to rethink, if biblegod is real, I would gladly pick hell.

 

[sBF] A deist is one who believes God created everything but then walked away from it without any influence over it.

 

That is your opinion, not a fact. My God loves you, even if you believe in that blasphemous book, the Bible. You don't really mean the last part of your statement. Who in their right mind would choose eternal pain and torment over eternal joy, peace and blessing.

 

I have no dipleasure nor do I blame YHWH/Jesus....they don't exist.

 

[sBF] On what basis do you say Jesus doesn't exist? Is it just because he didn't heal your grandparents?

 

You presume that your myth is real, to me your myth is no different than other god myths of the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Hindus, Muslims, etc.

 

[sBF] You speak as though you are an atheist, not a deist.

 

Your myth is certainly not more valid. People of all "faiths" have miracles and better lives due to "faith", to me, it has to do with feeling positive.

 

Peace to you and may Zeus bring you to the truth.

 

[sBF] Ah! Your god is Zeus. Where is he? What does he promise? Will you see him some day? What has he done to make your life better? Is he a god of love and mercy?

 

Grace, peace and truth in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Savedbyfaith

[Savedbyfaith]

It's sad, but it's true, Vigile.

 

You can ask a christian about almost anything. Like, "what do you think about subject X"?

 

[sBF] Do you have a specific request about a particular subject?

 

And, their answer will be a thinly veiled, "well now, that's an interesting question. According to the Bible"......

 

[sBF] I will share my thoughts about it.

[Savedbyfaith]

I'm sorry everyone, but this is starting to grate on my nerves. I am really sick of christians demeaning humankind for some kind of imaginery sin. We are not born sinful...you need to come down off your cross you poor, pitiful, crucified christian.

 

[sBF] to the contrary, my friend, you need to come to the cross for forgiveness. That's what Jesus said to do. Are you an "ex-Christian?"

 

Peace to you in his most wonderful name,

Savedbyfaith

[Savedbyfaith]

shavedbyFaith:

 

If you want to get on the bad side of ex-c's really really fast, just keep it up with this "you were never really christians" shit.

 

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW?

 

[sBF] If you want to discuss these things, great. But I will not if you continue to be profane and disrespectful. I thought ex-Christians were more congenial having discovered the real truth.

 

WERE YOU THERE?

 

Did you watch us as we realized that we were sinners and repented, and accepted God's forgiveness through Jesus' redemptive work on the cross?

 

[sBF] Of course not, but I know what Jesus said about those he saves: "No one will snatch you out of my hand." (John 10:29) Not even you can take yourself away from him. If you could, then God is not able to preserve your salvation.

 

Did you watch us get baptized?

 

[sBF] Baptism doesn't make you a Christian.

 

Did you watch us spend hours and hours on our knees before God praying for the lost?

 

Did you watch us get involved in church ministries and do everything we could to help our church family?

 

Did you watch us spend year after year studying the bible so that we could understand more about God?

 

Did you watch us as we did evangelism, telling others about the love of Christ?

 

Did you watch us as we wept before the Lord as we felt our faith slipping, begging God for help?

 

[sBF] Then what happened? Why do you no longer think you aren't a sinner? Why do you no longer believe in Christ's redemptive work on the cross? Why do you no longer spend hours on your knees in prayer. What happened to you? How can you make such a dramatic reversal? Could it be you did all these things and never were truly saved? The Bible is very clear that it is almost impossible to distinguish the wheat (true believers) from the tares (nonbelievers).

 

Jesus gives eternal life to all believers and they will never perish. If you truly repented and turn to Christ for salvation, you have eternal life. That you say you have rejected all these things is proof that you never were. Let me ask you this. Do you no longer believe that you were made a Christian (saved) through the blood of Jesus Christ? Do you consider the blood of Jesus as an unclean thing? Your answer to this is crucial.

 

You must be more omniscient than God, to be able to tell us we were never really christians.

 

You sanctimonious fuck.

 

[sBF] Not even an ex-christian should talk like this. Again, I will not continue this if you want to be profane and disrespectful.

 

Saved by faith

[Ouroboros]

Did I see right? SBF is claim the True Scottsman argument with us?

 

Sorry to say this, but you SBF, is not a true Christian.

 

I know it for a fact, because I know I was a true Christian.

That I know for sure, but I discovered the God according to the Bible does not exist. This doesn't mean a divine entity exists, or multiple divine entities or maybe highly intelligent beings of some sorts, but not God According to the Bible.

 

That's all that it is.

[Savedbyfaith]

No kidding?

 

 

The bible is full of contradictions and errors. Besides, even if he was real, he fits the false prophet criteria to the tee. On what basis do you say he exists? Is that little tingly sensation inside?

 

Um, you obviously haven't taken to time to read my testimony, that is just one of many contributing factors.

 

Oh? And are you now an authority on this too? DEIST DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY MAN-MADE AUTHORITIVE BOOKS ABOUT GOD!

 

[sBF] What then do they use as their source of authority?

 

However, the bible has promises that have been broken time and time again so, it makes your beliefs no more real than other MYTHS.

 

[sBF] Interesting! I'm not aware of one place in the Bible where God broke his promise. But then I don't know everything in the Bible.

[Ouroboros]

No kidding?

 

The bible is full of contradictions and errors.  Besides, even if he was real, he fits the false prophet criteria to the tee.  On what basis do you say he exists?  Is that little tingly sensation inside?

 

Um, you obviously haven't taken to time to read my testimony, that is just one of many contributing factors. 

 

Oh?  And are you now an authority on this too?  DEIST DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY MAN-MADE AUTHORITIVE BOOKS ABOUT GOD! 

[sBF] What then do they use as their source of authority?

 

The same as you: our mind.

 

However, the bible has promises that have been broken time and time again so, it makes your beliefs no more real than other MYTHS.  

 

[sBF] Interesting!  I'm not aware of one place in the Bible where God broke his promise.  But then I don't know everything in the Bible.

 

Mat 7:7  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Mat 7:8  For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

 

And here you will add "... if it is God's will..."

 

But then again the Bible says:

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

 

You should not add explanations to the Bible.

 

So Mathew 7.7- should be interpreted the way it says, and nothing else.

 

Now, ask Jesus for my family that my son walks again, and I will wait here to see the result... waiting... waiting...

[LloydDobler]

It's impossible for a believer not to sin, much less a non-belliever.

What bible did you pull that out of?

 

9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

Sounds to me like you're a false prophet, someone twisting the bible for your own gain, a child of the devil, and you're going to burn in hell for leading others astray.

 

You're right, you don't know everything in the bible. But have fun making it up as you go along, I'm sure god won't mind.

[Savedbyfaith]

SBF....You may not be using cus words, but your arrogance in itself is DISRESPECTFUL to the beliefs AND experience of those here.

 

[sBF] It is not arrogance to show where the Bible disagrees with your position about losing your Christianity. My bible says you can't. If you want to call someone arrogant, then call Jesus that. So why not explain to me what you think Jesus ment when he spoke abount losing none. (John 6:39, 10:28, 18:9). Yes, he lost Judas, but he was never saved to begin with. He was chosen for ministry, but not eternal life. Even if you think I am being arrogant, why not tell your colleagues to cool it with the disrespect and profanity. I would expect Ex-Christians to be decent and civil.

 

Many of us have never been happier since leaving Christianity and feel very very at peace. You're just going to HAVE TO ACCEPT that. You can have the audicity to think/say that we are misled?

 

[sBF] I am pleased that you are happy. That is fine. But earthly happiness and peace are not the same as the joy and peace that come from above. Also, could it be that ex-Christians find themselves in the seed parables? (Matt. 13:18-22)

 

Well, we feel the same for you, you are misled and brainwashed just like many of us were. Maybe one day, you'll find reality and maybe not. Doesn't feel to good does it? Having someone tell you that you're wrong and misled.

 

[sBF] I am not bothered by your belief that I am deceived. I know who I have trusted and am fully assured that when this old bod calls it quits, there is a welcome mat prepared for me in heaven (John 14:1-3). I wish you had the hope (expectation).

 

"In My Father's house are many mansions. If it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And If I go to prepare a place for you, I will return and receive you unto myself, that where I am you may be also."

 

I know where I am headed because of the One who loves me, and gave his life for me. I don't understand how it is possible to once believe that and now call it a myth. Did Jesus not know what he was talking about?

 

Yasna 46.10-11: Zarathustra promises blessings for those who support him and help the teaching achieve dominion in the world, and woe for the evil-doers who practice false religion.

 

Funny, this god makes promises, biblegod makes promises, that aren't proven or haven't shown up among their religions. Oh, and yes, scare-tactics to boot!

 

[sBF] Call Jesus the one who authored them.

 

Jesus said that with mustard seed-like faith that NOTHING WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE for you. Have you ever gone to a terminally ill childrens hospital and prayed with 2 or more other mustard seed-like faith that all of them are healed....in Jesus name! If you've never done it your faith isn't jack crap.

 

[sBF] Right, faith without works is useless. But of course, you realize that works don't save. There is a verse in scripture which says that God takes some children, and others, because he knows that what lays ahead of them is far worse. In his mercy, he lets people experience untimely death. I'm not saying this applies to all cases. When I see these poor children starving and dying in Africa, I weep. It is so sad. God is in control and knows what is happening, yet he knows what he is doing by not speaking the word and healing them all. In the meantime, I think he would have all of us support one or two of the hundreds of Christian missionaries which are on the front line helping these people, feeding them, educating them, teaching them to grow food and build houses. If you don't support one, Samaritan's Purse and World Vision are two excellant ministries.

 

If you have and it didn't happen, it proves that Jesus was a LIAR!! Of course, your excuses will be typical, that's okay, we understand. You poor, poor thing. How sad to hold onto something due to fear of burning in hell.

 

[sBF] I wonder how many people's lives have been changed and healed by prayer that you haven't seen. You think that just because you went into a hospital, prayed over some patients, and they didn't get healed, that God is a liar. God does not heal justt because someone says, "In the name of Jesus":

 

"Not everyone who says,'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord,' did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then I will say to them, 'I never knew you. Away from you evil doers." This verse speaks of those who thought they were Christians, but in fact weren't.

 

I have seen many healings in our church, but I am not disappointed or discouraged when someone isn't. Who knows? Perhaps the day is coming when they will be healed. God works according to his will and his timing, not ours. I think one's faith is immature if he thinks that God should do whatever we ask in his name. That's the problem. No one has a full handle on what it means to ask in his name. We think we do, but we don't.

 

I will stay on this forum and exchange views, but there isn't much purpose if disrespect and profanity must be used. I only ask for decency and civility.

 

Grace and peace from above,

Savedbyfaith

[Cerise]

Dear Savedbyfaith,

 

ever considered the possibility that if it is true that no person can take themselves from God's hands, that your God might have removed them deliberately?

 

Personally, I asked your God many a time to let me keep my faith in him and not harden my heart so to speak. And yet here I am: exchristian. If it is true that your God exists, and it is true that you cannot snatch yourself out of your God's hands without his permission, then only one possibility remains: he did it himself.

 

So stop interfering with God's will by talking to us.

[Purple]

Do you think your grandparents were the only ones who suffered? We must realize that pain, suffering and death are part of life. We all hurt, we all suffer, and we all die. That's is not God's fault. He only wants to give us what was lost. It's sad that people will not let Jesus do what he promises. He is not the problem. He only wants to restore and rebuild our lives. He will if we will let him. You can remain angry and unbelieving if you want, but I tell you that Jesus will heal your anger and unbelief if you will let him.

 

Sorry I am reading this thread for the first time so forgive the older quote. This is my pet peeve. This arogant clap trap, "Do you think you, your family friends insert whichever, are the only to suffer? Um no all the more reason to BE PISSED OFF! It is not sad that peopel will not let Jesus do what he promises HE, as God, created the freakin problem! I was just born, I didn't make rules I knew no one could follow and then tell them they were going to burn for freakin ever, that was NOT me that was THIS asshole It's like this jerk wad says I am going to rape you, and this will be all your fault, so after I am done I am going to light you on fire. I know you do not want to be set on fire, so if you believe me, and say you love me, I will forgive you for making me rape you and not set you on fire. Oh and you should be thankful. Now person being raped gets a wee bit upset about this, imagine that. So a person representing the rapists says, HEY do you think you are the ONLY one who gets raped??

 

Purple's responce: You mean you jerk wad god is raping others too??!!!!

[scotter]

SBF

 

If you are not ever trained in the profession of counseling, don’t attempt it.

 

Let’s rewind and see what happened: you asked Thankful nicely why she left Christianity and offered to help. Thankful was willing to share her story with you again, despite you are a complete stranger - an ID on the net.

 

And you causally wrote out, “Maybe you were not a true Christian to start with…..”

 

You know how disturbing and insulting that can be?

 

You offered to help and then you insulted? Is this an obnoxious bait or what, even though I believe you did not mean it?

 

You angered people by your insults, and then you asked for civility and decency.

You don’t set the terms here.

 

Ex-C members don’t automatically, reflectively reject people with beliefs. I for one, believe in the Divine, and I am warmly accepted here, so are some Christian members.

 

Please do some thinking why people became fencing towards your postings.

[Saviourmachine]

I am pleased that you are happy. That is fine. But earthly happiness and peace are not the same as the joy and peace that come from above. Also, could it be that ex-Christians find themselves in the seed parables? (Matt. 13:18-22)

To be happy is not only fine, it's heavenly. As x-xian I could find myself in many parables. Most often one thinks one's a figure in one of these parables, but you turn out to be another.

Is the man that sowed weed a xian? Did God put up these fables to test intellectual honesty? To find people that not adhere to certainty (like literal biblical truth) but to faith in people and all what they can see and experience around them? Is the pearl Jesus or your own integrity? Is the way sticking to some old truth or constantly redefining the values you belief in?

Do you personal experience the fundament you're building your house upon? Would you rather be left with a (wo)man you like on this earth, or with god with him talking as much to you as he has done to you now? In which case would you feel lonelier?

 

Sin = not to think, not to feel, not to be

[Savedbyfaith]

I know, even though scripture says that people can fall from faith, after having been "enlightened by the Spirit and shared in it." But we all know the picking and choosing that goes on within Christianity. If it were really "gods word" there wouldn't be so much division.

 

[sBF] There is no division over the major doctrines among true Christians. They may disagree about non-essential doctrine for salvation, but that is another matter.

 

Funny, how NONE of them even attempt that area, isn't it? We've certainly given plenty opportunity.

Oh, please do, Scotter. I'm anxiously awaiting an answer from SBF to your question also.

 

[sBF] I was wondering what question?

[Savedbyfaith]

SBF

 

If you are not ever trained in the profession of counseling, don’t attempt it.

 

Let’s rewind and see what happened: you asked Thankful nicely why she left Christianity and offered to help. Thankful was willing to share her story with you again, despite you are a complete stranger - an ID on the net.

 

[Day] She was under no compulsion to share her testimony. Don't strangers come on this site all the time?

 

And you causally wrote out, “Maybe you were not a true Christian to start with…..”

 

You know how disturbing and insulting that can be? You offered to help and then you insulted? Is this an obnoxious bait or what, even though I believe you did not mean it? You angered people by your insults, and then you asked for civility and decency.

You don’t set the terms here.

 

[Day] Why should it be disturbing since she has now found the truth and thankful for it. Has she not been delivered from the darkness into the light? I would think she would try to lead me to what she has found. Shouldn't she pity me for believing all those lies? Where is her compassion? No, I turn it all back on all of you who have "found the truth." Convince me that you're right.

 

Ex-C members don’t automatically, reflectively reject people with beliefs. I for one, believe in the Divine, and I am warmly accepted here, so are some Christian members.

 

[sBF] Do you believe Jesus is the Divine?

 

Please do some thinking why people became fencing towards your postings.

 

[sBF] All I ask for is respect and civility, and reasons why you and any others believe that you can lose your Christianity (salvation). Is that being so unreasonable and insulting? I have presented three scriptures (John 6:39, 10:28,29 and 18:9) asking for her understanding of them. She has not done so. There are many others. Perhaps you could share with me what you think. Thanks.

 

Savedbyfaith

[Savedbyfaith]

Did I see right? SBF is claim the True Scottsman argument with us?

 

Sorry to say this, but you SBF, is not a true Christian.

 

I know it for a fact, because I know I was a true Christian.

 

[sBF] If that is so, then you still are, only is a backslidden condition. Please share with me what you think Jesus ment in John 6:39, 10:28,29 and 18:9. These verses essentially say that all the Father gives to Jesus, he will not lose one.

 

That I know for sure, but I discovered the God according to the Bible does not exist.

 

[sBF] For sure? Did Jesus not exist? Who created the universe?

[Savedbyfaith]

SBF...there are Christians who would say that your not a "true" Christian. This is merely an excuse that doesn't work. For goodness sake, even people in the same pew but same denomination can't agree on the bible. IF there was really one spirit, one faith, there would be ZERO disagreement. It is the spirit of god, dwelling within the believer......no excuses.

 

[sBF] I will agree with you that this is a stange phenomena. But like I said, true Christians do not disagree on the essentials (virgin birth, the incarnation, the deity of Christ, his death and resurrection, all have sinned, the Trinity, salvation by grace through faith). But I think there are some explanations. Yes, there is one Spirit, one Lord, one God and Father. When the kingdom is handed over to God the Father, all Christians will be brought to the same understanding on all matters (1 Cor. 15:24). It coudn't be otherwise. Not all Christians grow at the same pace and in the same direction. Also, their are many"babes in Christ" who are feeding on milk and not into the meat of the word, sound doctrine and instruction. Some are under non-Spirit-led teaching about some things. This doesn't mean God doesn't love them, or that those who don't believe as we do have lost their salvation. It is crucial for all Christians to place themselves under sound doctrine, sound instruction, "rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

Another consideration is that Christians still have the capacity to sin. Perhaps this explains why there is not total agreement on all doctrines. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I do know one thing. The person who has acknowledged his or her sins to God Almighty, repented of them and turned to Jesus Christ in faith for forgiveness, has eternal life. That is pure, sound doctrine which permeates the scriptures. In my view, it is not possible for anyone who has done this to leave Christ. Yes, there are times when Christians lose heart, even faith, but not their salvation: "If we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself." (2 Tim. 2:13). Himself includes the body of believers who are IN HIM.

 

Grace and peace in Jesus Christ our Lord

[Savedbyfaith]

[sBF] For sure? Did Jesus not exist? Who created the universe?

 

Take your pick:

 

No one, Allah, YHWH, Zeus, Pan Gu, The Great Spirit, Tu-chai-pai, Pele, The Divine, Atum, Khepri, Tagaloa, Coyote, Marduk.... Here is a link for some myths, including the Judeo/Christian myth..... http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html

 

**Warning**** Chosing the wrong one may result in eternal punishment, from the "true" one.

 

[sBF] Did Jesus Christ exist?

[Savedbyfaith]

[sBF] For sure? Did Jesus not exist? Who created the universe?

 

I did not intentionally add those smilies :-)

[scotter]

SBF:

 

Your wordings and tone were soft, but you were not addressing my post. (Let the readers read of my post and your responses to my post.)

 

You responded with questions that took off to another direction.

 

Thanks for the questions, but no thanks.

[Savedbyfaith]

More than likely he did not exist, historically, it doesn't appear as if he did. Check out the "Pagan Gospel" Topic already started.

 

[sBF] Yes, there are tons of topics like this. There are first century historians like Josephus who record the existance of Jesus Christ. Also, the Babylonian Talmud writes of him. I think it would be extreme denial to think that he did not exist.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=1767 But, even if he did, so what? Doesn't prove that the myth is real.

 

[sBF] Imagine the billions, maybe trillions, of people over the centuries who have believed the myth. What a pitifully deceived and wretched bunch of gullibles we are if Jesus is not all that the Bible records.

 

So a guy named Jesus walked the earth, still doesn't mesh with the Jewish Messiah. Nor does it make your religion anymore believable than that of others.

 

[sBF] Well, at least you seem to lean towards the existance of Jesus. The rest I can't help you with if you have made up your mind not to believe what the Bible says about him. Jesus doesn't mesh with the Jewish Messiah, not because it isn't true, but because most Jews are hardened to Jesus being their Messiah. Jesus knew of this hardening and told them, "You will not see me again until you say, 'blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." In the meantime, most Jews will continue to reject him. When he returns to the Mt. of Olives (Zech. 14:4), there will be a national mourning over him as the Jews will then understand he was their Messiah all along (Zech. 12:10).

 

Grace and peace to you in the wonderful name of Jesus

[Savedbyfaith]

And why are those beliefs, according to you the sign of a "true" Christian? There are many "believers" who do protest those very things.

 

[sBF] Because they are major doctrines of the one book that claims all of them to be true. Jesus said that we don't live by bread alone but by every word that comes out of the mouth of God. That's what the Bible is, our daily bread. Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I am [he-the God/Messiah], you will die in your sins." (John 8:24). Jesus is the great I AM and if we don't believe he is God and Messiah, we will perish in our sins. True believers accept the Bible as God's word. They believe all the doctrines I mentioned. Why disbelieve them if they are written in the word of God? It is oxymoronic for one to say he is a Christian and doesn't believe what the Bible says.

 

No one agrees because there is not a holy spirit. The trinity?

 

[sBF] What do you mean no one agrees? The Trinity is doctrinal. (Matt. 11:25, John 13:13, 2 Cor. 3:17,18). Which one is Lord?

 

SBF, there are denominations that will strongly protest the trinity and even believe that beliefs in it are a mark of the beast.

 

[sBF] Then I don't think they are Christian denominations.

 

Your version of Christianity

 

[sBF] Sorry thankful, there is only one version of Christianity and it is found in the pages of the Bible.

 

is the one you feel comfortable with, another persons is something else.

 

[sBF] This is the essence of liberal theology; abandoning or revising revealed truth for doctrines not of God.

 

 

You have done nothing but argue your version of the truth which doesn't prove a thing.

 

[sBF] You're right. My arguing for what I believe does not prove anything for you. "Not by power, not by might, but by My Holy Spirit, says the Lord Almighty." (Zech. 4:6). I can't make anyone believe anything. Only the Holy Spirit can communicate truth. But what I have shared I believe to be true because it all comes from the scriptures which the Spirit of God uses to convey truth. I have shown where Jesus says you can't lose your Christianity. You have yet to offer an explanation.

 

Grace and peace,

SBF

[Christopher Carrion]

Your arguments SavedByFaith put in mind of a child putting his hands over his ears, shaking his head and singing "Nah, nah, nah" when he doesn't want to hear or legitimately engage with what is being said.

 

Your preconception that there is only one legitimate or "true" path one must follow in order to legitimately qualify as Christian according to scripture is defensive and self-fulfilling sewage of the highest order. The bible's existence and nature as a piece of literature, putting aside for the moment its evident historical innaccuracies and raw ideological contradictions, renders it open to a near infinite variety of interpretations, based upon the preconceptions and individual circumstances of those which are exposed to it. The admonition that only one interpretation, i.e., your own, is legitimate is not only self-reinforcing, it is intellectually perverse in the extreme. Define for me how one such as you, or your parents, or your church, or your pastor has the authority to determine which interpretation of the bible's claims and dictates are fundamental. Explain to me how you, your parents or your pastor as human beings have the capacity (or audacity for that matter) to promote as gospel their own worldly interpretations of a word they believe to be divinely inspired, and therefore beyopnd the ken of simple mortals.

 

And define them clearly; I have no time or patience for the intellectual smokescreens I have thus far witnessed.