Guest peavy Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 After being a closet atheist for awhile, I figured it's time for me to come out to all my church friends. I don't just wanna stop attending church and get emails of concern, so I'm hoping to make a clean break. I'm preparing a "come-out letter/speech" to give my closest Christian friends. One section I'm making will be based on "The Dragon in My Garage," from Carl Sagan's "Demon-Haunted World." If you haven't read this book, you can at least read this snipit: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm I was hoping some of you could give me some examples of how Christians/theologians make similar excuses in defense of Christianity. Here's a few examples from the top of my head: When you ask why good things happen to bad people and vise-versa, they make an implication of God's "mysterious ways." Or when you ask why God doesn't reveal Himself to nonbelievers to remove all possible doubt, they say that a sinner cannot live to see the face of God, or something similar. Or when you ask, "If Christianity is the true faith, then why are there so many schisms within it based on different opinions on fundamental doctrines?", they will spout off some junk like, "The Bible said there would be separation in the church." Any other examples would be extremely helpful. peavy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euthyphro's Thorn Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Unfortunately, there's really nothing you can do to talk sense into someone who doesn't want to hear it, so prepare yourself for the inevitable outcomes. No matter how sound your reasoning is for leaving the church, chances are they will just tell you that Satan is leading you away from the truth, period. You're wrong because God says so, la la la, I can't hear you. You might get one or two people who don't try to push the issue, if you're lucky. However, the rest will probably do one of three things: Never speak to you again, and probably talk trash behind your back. Harass you whenever they see you, or go out of their way to harass you. Maybe even threaten you with bodily harm and/or vandalize your property. Try relentlessly to get you "back into the fold," acting nice to your face but talking trash behind your back. If you're REALLY lucky, the church you're leaving is a rarity, filled with people who won't judge you. But in many cases, the church-goers will treat you as though you are Satan himself. Since you are preparing a letter, you might want to add this quote. I think it's a good one, because a lot of Christians have this misconception that atheists are evil and cannot be moral without their god. However, if you include this in your letter, they might see it as you telling them you have the moral high ground — which you do, imo, since you're not basing your morality on a barbaric collection of literature that condones genocide and infanticide. At any rate: An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy. An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it. An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter. He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now. Madelyn Murray O'Hair (April 13, 1919 – September 29, 1995) Take this for what it's worth, though. I am fortunate enough to not have been a regular church-goer, and none of my friendships were ever based on common theistic beliefs. I am merely repeating things I've read on these forums and elsewhere from people who have had such experiences, and it appears to be in the norm. In this respect, you might find the "Testimonies" forum to be quite helpful. You could find a few that you identify with most, and make your decision from there. Whatever you do, good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 8, 2008 Super Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2008 Chances are, most if not all of your church friendships rely completely on the shared faith. Be prepared to lose them. No amount of logic or evidence will make a dent in their faith. They are pre-programmed for immediate mental response to backsliders and apostates. No matter what you may tell them, your innate evil nature is getting the upper hand because of sin. Remember, Christianity is always framed so their god gets full credit for good things and the human tools of Satan are responsible for anything they think is bad. Just walk away is my advice. If there are any follow-up contacts to bring you back, tell them you have converted to Jehova's Witness, Roman Catholicism, or whatever other cult they fear/hate most. They will believe that, but won't easily believe that you have no faith at all. It doesn't compute for them. Remember, the goal is not to convert them or make them understand or accept. Your goal is to get them to leave you alone. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Ummm.. Other than ensuring further conflict and misery from moment letter is posted until you die, what will you gain from this action? I don't quite understand giving the religious factions in your life ammunition to use against you every moment of the rest of your time with them. When being a self selected minority in a sea of folks who are going to at the minor dislike you, and in a major way hate your decisions, why advertise? If writing letters *does it* for you, write away. Post them into a box in which no one but you knows about. You've salved the need to *do something*, and done so. Writing notes to religious folks is like handin' them the wall, pole, rope, rifles, final smoke, then the ammunition to shoot your ass. Point is, you give them *everything* while you gain not_one_frakkin'_thing for your life and travels. Consider the costs. kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euthyphro's Thorn Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Speaking of testimonies from former Christians, if you want to see how religion can turn an otherwise good person into a danger to society, you might want to read this one. She was held up by every church she attended as a wonderful example of how a Christian woman should behave, and it gave me chills just reading about her faithful Christian works. You may think your friends from church are good people, and their hearts may even be in the right place, but what if they put you in the same league with "baby killers" after you tell them of your apostasy? I would love nothing more than to have all atheists come "out of the closet" and show this country that we are nothing like their stereotypes about us. However, you need to consider your own safety and sanity when making a decision like that, and should consider every angle before ringing a bell that you can't unring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanezenmistress Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Something Skip said got me thinking about Achknowledgeing our freedom. An Active part of us wants to be seen and be called vailed. When we got saved, some of us told everyone, some of us felt strange and hypocritical if we didnt try to talk about Christ. I wonder if the mentality sticks. Now there is this need to come out of the closet. To tell. I wonder why I want or think i need that. I mean, i left the faith because it was not deep enough. The people did not seem to care as much as i did about walking with jesus. But what i am talking about is this need to tell others. To make others see our point or side. Why? If we are wise then our actions will be wise. There really isnt a real need to explain to them why. We may want to give them some pain back, but do we need to? As a human dont we want to do better? Well , thats what i am trying to sell to myself.............why should i need to *confess* anything to anyone? And gawd, how would i even begin? Wouldnt it be wiser to gracfully back out and put my mind to rest?If i wish, i could pop back in the church from time to time. I cant/dont want to shake them free, but maybe i can be there as a human that loves wisdom. Doesnt Jesus love Wisdom? I can speak bible...........no biggie. But i do always feel a pang in my heart that i cant be honest about things spiritaul as i understand them with the church people.For that i ought to go, but think i must i explian it to THEM.........i mean i am mifft becasue THEY dont understand anything, how coudl i trust them to understand *this*. so peavy i am right in the mess with you........ I belong to an assembly of god church and the people are fine. But i am not in the clique anyway. They dont reach out and arent personal, weird church i guess. But i got issues about *coming out* .......But i keep asking myself why? what for? The reasons i come up with....Validation....Pride......vengence.........well are they the energies i want to answer to? No. I wonder if i should even need to come out, but just live in mental peace? I can talk bible when in such company. I talk it pretty good too....but it doesnt matter, they dont talk it theses days anway. I'd leave this church even if i was a chrisitan in all honesty........without sayign a word. I am just being wishy washy, and this need to come out is bullshit drama. SO ask yourself also why must you say a word? You can talk to those of them who might ask , but you dont have to. THEY are not the keepers of your *sins*...........not anymore. i think i am beginning to believe in my * why*. Justine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 After being a closet atheist for awhile, I figured it's time for me to come out to all my church friends. I don't just wanna stop attending church and get emails of concern, so I'm hoping to make a clean break. I'm preparing a "come-out letter/speech" to give my closest Christian friends. ... Any other examples would be extremely helpful. Your best bet is to just stop going and if anyone bothers you about it just tell them that you're done with that nonsense and leave it at that. You're not going to keep any "church friends" with some well written letter even if you managed to write the most magnificent letter in the history of the world. If they want to continue being your friends after you tell them you're done with that nonsense, and they actually behave as your friend and not missionaries, then that's that. You don't owe them an explanation or any sort of reasoning on your decision to leave their clan. The doors are supposed to be open to come and go as you please. You came and now you're going. The cleanest break involves just going and not looking back. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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